I'm interested in measuring the velocity factor of some coax I have (more of
an exercise than necessity). In order to do this, the MFJ-259 Operations
manual states that the "stub" to be measured should be attached with a
50-ohm noninductive resistor in series to that center conductor of the
Antenna connector on the analyzer.

What would be a good way of making this connection? I've thought about it
quite a bit; the best idea I've come up with so far is to have a small metal
enclosure w/ two SO-239's mounted. The resistor would go from center
conductor to center conductor of each SO-239. But this requires too many
extra connections & lengths. Is there a better way to do this? Would love
to see anyone else's experimental setup, particularly if there are pictures
or details on the web.

Thanks & 73,

Jason
KB5URQ

I'm interested in measuring the velocity factor of some coax I have (more
of
an exercise than necessity). In order to do this, the MFJ-259 Operations
manual states that the "stub" to be measured should be attached with a
50-ohm noninductive resistor in series to that center conductor of the
Antenna connector on the analyzer.

What would be a good way of making this connection? I've thought about it
quite a bit; the best idea I've come up with so far is to have a small
metal
enclosure w/ two SO-239's mounted. The resistor would go from center
conductor to center conductor of each SO-239. But this requires too many
extra connections & lengths. Is there a better way to do this? Would
love
to see anyone else's experimental setup, particularly if there are
pictures
or details on the web.
===============
Since no power is involved the non-inductive resistor can be very small .
If accuracy is a point ,get a 50 Ohms , 1% metal film resistor or select a
near 50 Ohms resistor from a batch of standard 5% resistors with an accurate
Ohm meter .
Cut the leads as short as possible but adequate for insertion and soldering
into the SO 239 coaxial socket.
You now know the minimum distance between de 2 SO 239 sockets and can make a
suitable enclosure from bits of scrap plain printed circuit board ( in
Europe available at amateur radio fleamarkets and often sold by the
kilogramme)
With the enclosure completed and holes drilled for the SO 239 connectors
,fit one connector with the resistor soldered and subsequently fit the other
connector and solder it to the resistor.
The result is a resistor in between the 2 SO 239 connectors with hardly any
wire visible.
Finally finish the enclosure by soldering a cover of the same PCB material
or keep the cover removable by means of soldered nuts inside the enclosure
and matching screws.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless of
impedance, is 0.665

"Reg Edwards" wrote in message ...
The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless of
impedance, is 0.665

And this comes from someone who I could swear posted not long ago a
table that had velocity factors for solid polyethylene cable that were
significantly different from this magic number?

But even if we just limit ourselves to HF and above, there's a
problem: most "solid poly" cable I've encountered has small gas
bubbles in the dielectric, and the v.f. does not measure exactly
0.665. Most of the time, the difference doesn't matter, but sometimes
it does, and then it's not safe to assume it's 0.665. And of course a
lot of cable these days uses foam dielectric, which can be noticably
different from batch to batch.

"Tom Bruhns" wrote "Reg Edwards"
The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless of
impedance, is 0.665

================================

And this comes from someone who I could swear posted not long ago a
table that had velocity factors for solid polyethylene cable that were
significantly different from this magic number?

But even if we just limit ourselves to HF and above, there's a
problem: most "solid poly" cable I've encountered has small gas
bubbles in the dielectric, and the v.f. does not measure exactly
0.665. Most of the time, the difference doesn't matter, but sometimes
it does, and then it's not safe to assume it's 0.665. And of course a
lot of cable these days uses foam dielectric, which can be noticably
different from batch to batch.

===============================

Your para. 1. You can swear till you're appoplectic black and blue in the
face - it wasn't me. I'm not THAT stupid. So who was it then?

Your para. 2. If there are little bubbles in it, it is not solid. If it
is foamed, it is not solid.

Just to add a little more useless information, did you know the stuff also
varies with pressure and temperature as at the bottoms of the oceans? Also,
under pressure, water disassociates and hydrogen slowly diffuses through it.
Rodents seem to take a fancy to it.

Velocity factor = (Permittivity)^(- 1/2). Permittivity of polyethylene =
2.26 but it does vary slighty from one book to the next.
----
Reg.

"Reg Edwards" wrote in message ...
"Tom Bruhns" wrote "Reg Edwards"
The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless of
impedance, is 0.665

================================

And this comes from someone who I could swear posted not long ago a
table that had velocity factors for solid polyethylene cable that were
significantly different from this magic number?
....
===============================

Your para. 1. You can swear till you're appoplectic black and blue in the
face - it wasn't me. I'm not THAT stupid. So who was it then?
....

----
Reg.

Hi Reg...

Well, the Google archive says it was from you. Perhaps you DO have
someone else posting under your name.

See below. Or is the "VF" column not actually velocity factor? OTOH,
I do agree with the posting below, that at low frequencies, beta
becomes dependent more on R than on L, and thus the VF changes.

Cheers,
Tom


From: Reg Edwards )
Subject: Coax Cable vs Freqency

View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 2003-08-12 17:41:24 PST

For anyone who may be interested.

Typical of RG-58 and RG-11 type cables.
Zo = Ro - jXo
Xo is always negative.
Angle of Zo in degrees. Always negative.
VF = relative velocity.

Freq Ro jXo Angle VF
------ ------ ------ ------ ------
50 Hz 967 -965 -44.95 0.034
1 kHz 220 -213 -44 0.151
10 kHz 80 -58 -36 0.41
100 kHz 56 -9.3 -9.5 0.59
1 MHz 52.4 -2.4 -2.7 0.63
10 MHz 50.7 -0.76 -0.86 0.65
100 MHz 50.2 -0.23 -0.27 0.66

Smith Chart calculations begin to be inaccurate around 2 MHz and
below. So
do SWR meters.

Tom,

It should be obvious when somebody asks how to find VF by using an HF
antenna analiser he is interested, like every other radio amateur, in the HF
value of VF.

If you agree with the table in the other posting, which gives VF vesus
frequency, and you are aware VF decreases with frequency, then how come you
didn't realise you had taken the value of 0.665 out of its HF context.

All my figures are correct.
----
Reg

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''
"Tom Bruhns" wrote in message
m...
"Reg Edwards" wrote in message
...
"Tom Bruhns" wrote "Reg Edwards"
The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless
of
impedance, is 0.665

================================

And this comes from someone who I could swear posted not long ago a
table that had velocity factors for solid polyethylene cable that were
significantly different from this magic number?
...
Freq Ro jXo Angle VF
------ ------ ------ ------ ------
50 Hz 967 -965 -44.95 0.034
1 kHz 220 -213 -44 0.151
10 kHz 80 -58 -36 0.41
100 kHz 56 -9.3 -9.5 0.59
1 MHz 52.4 -2.4 -2.7 0.63
10 MHz 50.7 -0.76 -0.86 0.65
100 MHz 50.2 -0.23 -0.27 0.66

Smith Chart calculations begin to be inaccurate around 2 MHz and
below. So
do SWR meters.

Tom,

It should be obvious when somebody asks how to find VF by using an HF
antenna analiser he is interested, like every other radio amateur, in the HF
value of VF.

If you agree with the table in the other posting, which gives VF vesus
frequency, and you are aware VF decreases with frequency, then how come you
didn't realise you had taken the value of 0.665 out of its HF context.

All my figures are correct.
----
Reg

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''
"Tom Bruhns" wrote in message
m...
"Reg Edwards" wrote in message
...
"Tom Bruhns" wrote "Reg Edwards"
The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless
of
impedance, is 0.665

================================

And this comes from someone who I could swear posted not long ago a
table that had velocity factors for solid polyethylene cable that were
significantly different from this magic number?
...
Freq Ro jXo Angle VF
------ ------ ------ ------ ------
50 Hz 967 -965 -44.95 0.034
1 kHz 220 -213 -44 0.151
10 kHz 80 -58 -36 0.41
100 kHz 56 -9.3 -9.5 0.59
1 MHz 52.4 -2.4 -2.7 0.63
10 MHz 50.7 -0.76 -0.86 0.65
100 MHz 50.2 -0.23 -0.27 0.66

Smith Chart calculations begin to be inaccurate around 2 MHz and
below. So
do SWR meters.

"Reg Edwards" wrote in message ...
"Tom Bruhns" wrote "Reg Edwards"
The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless of
impedance, is 0.665

================================

And this comes from someone who I could swear posted not long ago a
table that had velocity factors for solid polyethylene cable that were
significantly different from this magic number?
....
===============================

Your para. 1. You can swear till you're appoplectic black and blue in the
face - it wasn't me. I'm not THAT stupid. So who was it then?
....

----
Reg.

Hi Reg...

Well, the Google archive says it was from you. Perhaps you DO have
someone else posting under your name.

See below. Or is the "VF" column not actually velocity factor? OTOH,
I do agree with the posting below, that at low frequencies, beta
becomes dependent more on R than on L, and thus the VF changes.

Cheers,
Tom


From: Reg Edwards )
Subject: Coax Cable vs Freqency

View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 2003-08-12 17:41:24 PST

For anyone who may be interested.

Typical of RG-58 and RG-11 type cables.
Zo = Ro - jXo
Xo is always negative.
Angle of Zo in degrees. Always negative.
VF = relative velocity.

Freq Ro jXo Angle VF
------ ------ ------ ------ ------
50 Hz 967 -965 -44.95 0.034
1 kHz 220 -213 -44 0.151
10 kHz 80 -58 -36 0.41
100 kHz 56 -9.3 -9.5 0.59
1 MHz 52.4 -2.4 -2.7 0.63
10 MHz 50.7 -0.76 -0.86 0.65
100 MHz 50.2 -0.23 -0.27 0.66

Smith Chart calculations begin to be inaccurate around 2 MHz and
below. So
do SWR meters.

"Tom Bruhns" wrote "Reg Edwards"
The velocity factor of ALL solid polyethylene coax cable, regardless of
impedance, is 0.665

================================

And this comes from someone who I could swear posted not long ago a
table that had velocity factors for solid polyethylene cable that were
significantly different from this magic number?

But even if we just limit ourselves to HF and above, there's a
problem: most "solid poly" cable I've encountered has small gas
bubbles in the dielectric, and the v.f. does not measure exactly
0.665. Most of the time, the difference doesn't matter, but sometimes
it does, and then it's not safe to assume it's 0.665. And of course a
lot of cable these days uses foam dielectric, which can be noticably
different from batch to batch.

===============================

Your para. 1. You can swear till you're appoplectic black and blue in the
face - it wasn't me. I'm not THAT stupid. So who was it then?

Your para. 2. If there are little bubbles in it, it is not solid. If it
is foamed, it is not solid.

Just to add a little more useless information, did you know the stuff also
varies with pressure and temperature as at the bottoms of the oceans? Also,
under pressure, water disassociates and hydrogen slowly diffuses through it.
Rodents seem to take a fancy to it.

Velocity factor = (Permittivity)^(- 1/2). Permittivity of polyethylene =
2.26 but it does vary slighty from one book to the next.
----
Reg.