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#1
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![]() I have a Heathkit SB-102 that I have used for a couple of years primarly on CW, but I had wanted to use it some on SSB. On CW it puts out a good solid 100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. I tested the tubes on a tester, not sure if it works or not, but they appeared to be good.. and i've replaced all of the resistors I could see that might have lost value over the years. Anyone have specific experience with a SB-102 and the SSB audio input going soft ? -- Registered Linux User #346565 |
#2
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On CW it puts out a good solid
100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. Jeremy- I had two SB-102s and an HW-100 about 25 years ago. Neither had low audio, although there were numerous other problems. From the wording of your message, I assume the radio did have good audio, but now doesn't, using the same microphone et cetera. As with most tube rigs, the first thing to do was to check the tubes. Your tester would probably have shown up a problem that would have caused your low audio, even if it wasn't a conductance-type tester. The microphone must be high impedance. If you are using a low impedance microphone, you just might not have noticed the low output before. Is the microphone from Heath? They supplied a hand microphone with a high impedance ceramic element, similar to the Turner 350-C. If you happen to have a non-Heath microphone with a crystal element, it is possible the element is going bad. A Rochelle Salts crystal element must be kept at just the right humidity level. If it gets too humid, the crystal absorbs moisture and dissolves. If it gets to dry, its "waters of crystalization" evaporate and the crystal turns to powder! When you replaced resistors, did you refer to the manual for the correct value? Some of the old resistors can be misread. Mistaking red or yellow for orange in the third band, would make a ten-fold error. Beyond tubes, microphones and resistors, there may be an electrolytic capacitor that has either developed leakage or has dried out. Most of the lower value capacitors are probably OK, but no guarantee. If you have the manual, there are probably voltages marked on the circuit diagram. It might help isolate the problem if you checked them with a high impedance meter. 73 & Good Luck Fred, K4DII |
#3
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On CW it puts out a good solid
100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. Jeremy- I had two SB-102s and an HW-100 about 25 years ago. Neither had low audio, although there were numerous other problems. From the wording of your message, I assume the radio did have good audio, but now doesn't, using the same microphone et cetera. As with most tube rigs, the first thing to do was to check the tubes. Your tester would probably have shown up a problem that would have caused your low audio, even if it wasn't a conductance-type tester. The microphone must be high impedance. If you are using a low impedance microphone, you just might not have noticed the low output before. Is the microphone from Heath? They supplied a hand microphone with a high impedance ceramic element, similar to the Turner 350-C. If you happen to have a non-Heath microphone with a crystal element, it is possible the element is going bad. A Rochelle Salts crystal element must be kept at just the right humidity level. If it gets too humid, the crystal absorbs moisture and dissolves. If it gets to dry, its "waters of crystalization" evaporate and the crystal turns to powder! When you replaced resistors, did you refer to the manual for the correct value? Some of the old resistors can be misread. Mistaking red or yellow for orange in the third band, would make a ten-fold error. Beyond tubes, microphones and resistors, there may be an electrolytic capacitor that has either developed leakage or has dried out. Most of the lower value capacitors are probably OK, but no guarantee. If you have the manual, there are probably voltages marked on the circuit diagram. It might help isolate the problem if you checked them with a high impedance meter. 73 & Good Luck Fred, K4DII |
#4
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Fred McKenzie wrote:
On CW it puts out a good solid 100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. Jeremy- I had two SB-102s and an HW-100 about 25 years ago. Neither had low audio, although there were numerous other problems. From the wording of your message, I assume the radio did have good audio, but now doesn't, using the same microphone et cetera. As with most tube rigs, the first thing to do was to check the tubes. Your tester would probably have shown up a problem that would have caused your low audio, even if it wasn't a conductance-type tester. The microphone must be high impedance. If you are using a low impedance microphone, you just might not have noticed the low output before. Is the microphone from Heath? They supplied a hand microphone with a high impedance ceramic element, similar to the Turner 350-C. If you happen to have a non-Heath microphone with a crystal element, it is possible the element is going bad. A Rochelle Salts crystal element must be kept at just the right humidity level. If it gets too humid, the crystal absorbs moisture and dissolves. If it gets to dry, its "waters of crystalization" evaporate and the crystal turns to powder! When you replaced resistors, did you refer to the manual for the correct value? Some of the old resistors can be misread. Mistaking red or yellow for orange in the third band, would make a ten-fold error. Beyond tubes, microphones and resistors, there may be an electrolytic capacitor that has either developed leakage or has dried out. Most of the lower value capacitors are probably OK, but no guarantee. If you have the manual, there are probably voltages marked on the circuit diagram. It might help isolate the problem if you checked them with a high impedance meter. 73 & Good Luck Fred, K4DII Yes, I referred to the manual for the values of the resisters. To explain. When i upgraded to General in 1997 or 1998, a friend donated the radio to me in "non-working" condition.. and another friend fixed it. In his fixing of the radio he said all he had to do was replace some resisters and it started working nicely. Upon closer inspection he didn't replace the resisters but he patched them. As in he added a resister in parallel to the existing resister to get it to the resistance it was supposed to be instead of removing it and putting in a totally new one. What I did was take both out and put in a totally new one on all of them i could find. As far as i know the entier time i had the rig it was low on output on SSB, but i didn't notice until i had had the rig for a year since i was a tech-plus and used the rig only on CW. First off I tryed the stock heathkit mic that i believe came with the radio and it was even worse, it would barely put our 5 - 8 watts. I found a high impedance amplified microphone that i wired up and hooked up to the radio, which then got its output up to around 10 watts.. with peaks if i whistle into it loudly. I read the manual and attempted to match the impedance of the mics to what the rig wanted. The capacitors is something i never thought about until i was reading your message. I've restored a old AM broadcast band radio once and I had to replace all the capacitors, but I never thought about it on the SB-102. -- Registered Linux User #346565 WA5K |
#5
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Fred McKenzie wrote:
On CW it puts out a good solid 100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. Jeremy- I had two SB-102s and an HW-100 about 25 years ago. Neither had low audio, although there were numerous other problems. From the wording of your message, I assume the radio did have good audio, but now doesn't, using the same microphone et cetera. As with most tube rigs, the first thing to do was to check the tubes. Your tester would probably have shown up a problem that would have caused your low audio, even if it wasn't a conductance-type tester. The microphone must be high impedance. If you are using a low impedance microphone, you just might not have noticed the low output before. Is the microphone from Heath? They supplied a hand microphone with a high impedance ceramic element, similar to the Turner 350-C. If you happen to have a non-Heath microphone with a crystal element, it is possible the element is going bad. A Rochelle Salts crystal element must be kept at just the right humidity level. If it gets too humid, the crystal absorbs moisture and dissolves. If it gets to dry, its "waters of crystalization" evaporate and the crystal turns to powder! When you replaced resistors, did you refer to the manual for the correct value? Some of the old resistors can be misread. Mistaking red or yellow for orange in the third band, would make a ten-fold error. Beyond tubes, microphones and resistors, there may be an electrolytic capacitor that has either developed leakage or has dried out. Most of the lower value capacitors are probably OK, but no guarantee. If you have the manual, there are probably voltages marked on the circuit diagram. It might help isolate the problem if you checked them with a high impedance meter. 73 & Good Luck Fred, K4DII Yes, I referred to the manual for the values of the resisters. To explain. When i upgraded to General in 1997 or 1998, a friend donated the radio to me in "non-working" condition.. and another friend fixed it. In his fixing of the radio he said all he had to do was replace some resisters and it started working nicely. Upon closer inspection he didn't replace the resisters but he patched them. As in he added a resister in parallel to the existing resister to get it to the resistance it was supposed to be instead of removing it and putting in a totally new one. What I did was take both out and put in a totally new one on all of them i could find. As far as i know the entier time i had the rig it was low on output on SSB, but i didn't notice until i had had the rig for a year since i was a tech-plus and used the rig only on CW. First off I tryed the stock heathkit mic that i believe came with the radio and it was even worse, it would barely put our 5 - 8 watts. I found a high impedance amplified microphone that i wired up and hooked up to the radio, which then got its output up to around 10 watts.. with peaks if i whistle into it loudly. I read the manual and attempted to match the impedance of the mics to what the rig wanted. The capacitors is something i never thought about until i was reading your message. I've restored a old AM broadcast band radio once and I had to replace all the capacitors, but I never thought about it on the SB-102. -- Registered Linux User #346565 WA5K |
#6
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Jeremy Salch ) writes:
Fred McKenzie wrote: On CW it puts out a good solid 100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. Jeremy- I had two SB-102s and an HW-100 about 25 years ago. Neither had low audio, although there were numerous other problems. From the wording of your message, I assume the radio did have good audio, but now doesn't, using the same microphone et cetera. As with most tube rigs, the first thing to do was to check the tubes. Your tester would probably have shown up a problem that would have caused your low audio, even if it wasn't a conductance-type tester. The microphone must be high impedance. If you are using a low impedance microphone, you just might not have noticed the low output before. Is the microphone from Heath? They supplied a hand microphone with a high impedance ceramic element, similar to the Turner 350-C. If you happen to have a non-Heath microphone with a crystal element, it is possible the element is going bad. A Rochelle Salts crystal element must be kept at just the right humidity level. If it gets too humid, the crystal absorbs moisture and dissolves. If it gets to dry, its "waters of crystalization" evaporate and the crystal turns to powder! When you replaced resistors, did you refer to the manual for the correct value? Some of the old resistors can be misread. Mistaking red or yellow for orange in the third band, would make a ten-fold error. Beyond tubes, microphones and resistors, there may be an electrolytic capacitor that has either developed leakage or has dried out. Most of the lower value capacitors are probably OK, but no guarantee. If you have the manual, there are probably voltages marked on the circuit diagram. It might help isolate the problem if you checked them with a high impedance meter. 73 & Good Luck Fred, K4DII Yes, I referred to the manual for the values of the resisters. To explain. When i upgraded to General in 1997 or 1998, a friend donated the radio to me in "non-working" condition.. and another friend fixed it. In his fixing of the radio he said all he had to do was replace some resisters and it started working nicely. Upon closer inspection he didn't replace the resisters but he patched them. As in he added a resister in parallel to the existing resister to get it to the resistance it was supposed to be instead of removing it and putting in a totally new one. What I did was take both out and put in a totally new one on all of them i could find. As far as i know the entier time i had the rig it was low on output on SSB, but i didn't notice until i had had the rig for a year since i was a tech-plus and used the rig only on CW. First off I tryed the stock heathkit mic that i believe came with the radio and it was even worse, it would barely put our 5 - 8 watts. I found a high impedance amplified microphone that i wired up and hooked up to the radio, which then got its output up to around 10 watts.. with peaks if i whistle into it loudly. I read the manual and attempted to match the impedance of the mics to what the rig wanted. The capacitors is something i never thought about until i was reading your message. I've restored a old AM broadcast band radio once and I had to replace all the capacitors, but I never thought about it on the SB-102. But you need to look at what's different when the rig moves from CW to SSB. There are a number of methods that are used to generate CW in an SSB rig, and how it's done will help to isolate the problem. You can feed an audio tone into the AF amplifier feeding the balanced modulator, and there there is very little different. You can unbalanced the balanced modulator. You can feed the carrier oscillator around the balanced modulator, and maybe someties it's even fed around the IF filter. I have no idea which scheme is used in your rig. The audio tone method would suggest the microphone, or something in the first audio stage or so (depending on where the audio tone is injected). It can't be the balanced modulator, or anything that comes later. Unbalancing the balanced modulator would suggest the problem lies in the stage or stages between the mic jack and the balanced modulator, unless the microphone is faulty. The balanced modulator should be fine, as well as anything that comes later. Feeding the carrier oscillator around the balanced modulator, and I'm not sure how common this scheme was, would leave the problem with those audio stages or the balanced modulator. If you had an audio generator of some kind, you could try applying it right where the audio goes into the balanced modulator. I'm not sure what audo voltage level should be there, but if you applied that same audio voltage and you get full power, you know the problem lies before that. Then you move the AF generator a stage closer to the mic jack, and see if there's a drop-off in power output (one is expecting that you have a dummy load on the output for this testing). Then move the AF generator to the mic jack and see if there's a drop-off. At some point as you move towards the mic jack, there will be a drop-off, and that will be the stage that needs work. Maybe the tube, maybe a resistor, or maybe a coupling capacitor or bypass capacitor. If you still get a low output with the signal generator feeding into the balanced modulator, then the problem lies in the balanced modulator. Or, the IF filter has gone bad (not likely, and you should notice a deterioration on receive), or the carrier oscillator is not on frequency. Again, I'm not sure of the rig's scheme, but the carrier oscillator crystal may be changed when going to CW. It's possible the SSB crystal is off frequency, and so the IF filter isn't passing the signal properly. Scratch that, since you'd be noticing a problem in receive. Feed the AF generator into the balanced modulator, and vary it's frequency to see if the output changes significantly as the audio frequency changes. The problem can be broken down, but one has to start by looking at the schematic to see what could be the problem. Michael VE2BVW |
#7
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Jeremy Salch ) writes:
Fred McKenzie wrote: On CW it puts out a good solid 100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. Jeremy- I had two SB-102s and an HW-100 about 25 years ago. Neither had low audio, although there were numerous other problems. From the wording of your message, I assume the radio did have good audio, but now doesn't, using the same microphone et cetera. As with most tube rigs, the first thing to do was to check the tubes. Your tester would probably have shown up a problem that would have caused your low audio, even if it wasn't a conductance-type tester. The microphone must be high impedance. If you are using a low impedance microphone, you just might not have noticed the low output before. Is the microphone from Heath? They supplied a hand microphone with a high impedance ceramic element, similar to the Turner 350-C. If you happen to have a non-Heath microphone with a crystal element, it is possible the element is going bad. A Rochelle Salts crystal element must be kept at just the right humidity level. If it gets too humid, the crystal absorbs moisture and dissolves. If it gets to dry, its "waters of crystalization" evaporate and the crystal turns to powder! When you replaced resistors, did you refer to the manual for the correct value? Some of the old resistors can be misread. Mistaking red or yellow for orange in the third band, would make a ten-fold error. Beyond tubes, microphones and resistors, there may be an electrolytic capacitor that has either developed leakage or has dried out. Most of the lower value capacitors are probably OK, but no guarantee. If you have the manual, there are probably voltages marked on the circuit diagram. It might help isolate the problem if you checked them with a high impedance meter. 73 & Good Luck Fred, K4DII Yes, I referred to the manual for the values of the resisters. To explain. When i upgraded to General in 1997 or 1998, a friend donated the radio to me in "non-working" condition.. and another friend fixed it. In his fixing of the radio he said all he had to do was replace some resisters and it started working nicely. Upon closer inspection he didn't replace the resisters but he patched them. As in he added a resister in parallel to the existing resister to get it to the resistance it was supposed to be instead of removing it and putting in a totally new one. What I did was take both out and put in a totally new one on all of them i could find. As far as i know the entier time i had the rig it was low on output on SSB, but i didn't notice until i had had the rig for a year since i was a tech-plus and used the rig only on CW. First off I tryed the stock heathkit mic that i believe came with the radio and it was even worse, it would barely put our 5 - 8 watts. I found a high impedance amplified microphone that i wired up and hooked up to the radio, which then got its output up to around 10 watts.. with peaks if i whistle into it loudly. I read the manual and attempted to match the impedance of the mics to what the rig wanted. The capacitors is something i never thought about until i was reading your message. I've restored a old AM broadcast band radio once and I had to replace all the capacitors, but I never thought about it on the SB-102. But you need to look at what's different when the rig moves from CW to SSB. There are a number of methods that are used to generate CW in an SSB rig, and how it's done will help to isolate the problem. You can feed an audio tone into the AF amplifier feeding the balanced modulator, and there there is very little different. You can unbalanced the balanced modulator. You can feed the carrier oscillator around the balanced modulator, and maybe someties it's even fed around the IF filter. I have no idea which scheme is used in your rig. The audio tone method would suggest the microphone, or something in the first audio stage or so (depending on where the audio tone is injected). It can't be the balanced modulator, or anything that comes later. Unbalancing the balanced modulator would suggest the problem lies in the stage or stages between the mic jack and the balanced modulator, unless the microphone is faulty. The balanced modulator should be fine, as well as anything that comes later. Feeding the carrier oscillator around the balanced modulator, and I'm not sure how common this scheme was, would leave the problem with those audio stages or the balanced modulator. If you had an audio generator of some kind, you could try applying it right where the audio goes into the balanced modulator. I'm not sure what audo voltage level should be there, but if you applied that same audio voltage and you get full power, you know the problem lies before that. Then you move the AF generator a stage closer to the mic jack, and see if there's a drop-off in power output (one is expecting that you have a dummy load on the output for this testing). Then move the AF generator to the mic jack and see if there's a drop-off. At some point as you move towards the mic jack, there will be a drop-off, and that will be the stage that needs work. Maybe the tube, maybe a resistor, or maybe a coupling capacitor or bypass capacitor. If you still get a low output with the signal generator feeding into the balanced modulator, then the problem lies in the balanced modulator. Or, the IF filter has gone bad (not likely, and you should notice a deterioration on receive), or the carrier oscillator is not on frequency. Again, I'm not sure of the rig's scheme, but the carrier oscillator crystal may be changed when going to CW. It's possible the SSB crystal is off frequency, and so the IF filter isn't passing the signal properly. Scratch that, since you'd be noticing a problem in receive. Feed the AF generator into the balanced modulator, and vary it's frequency to see if the output changes significantly as the audio frequency changes. The problem can be broken down, but one has to start by looking at the schematic to see what could be the problem. Michael VE2BVW |
#8
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The capacitors is something i never thought about until i was reading your
message. I've restored a old AM broadcast band radio once and I had to replace all the capacitors, but I never thought about it on the SB-102. Jeremy- I've been through that with old radios as well. Back in the late 50s or early 60s, there was a major improvement in capacitor construction. They introduced a layer of plastic film (mylar?) with the paper, and drasticaly reduced leakage as the capacitor aged. That is why I wouldn't just replace capacitors without some other symptom. Another thing to check, is whether the microphone amplifier tube is the correct one. If a 12AU7 had been installed in place of a 12AX7, the gain would be somewhat lower, but the tube might check 100%. 73, Fred, K4DII |
#9
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The capacitors is something i never thought about until i was reading your
message. I've restored a old AM broadcast band radio once and I had to replace all the capacitors, but I never thought about it on the SB-102. Jeremy- I've been through that with old radios as well. Back in the late 50s or early 60s, there was a major improvement in capacitor construction. They introduced a layer of plastic film (mylar?) with the paper, and drasticaly reduced leakage as the capacitor aged. That is why I wouldn't just replace capacitors without some other symptom. Another thing to check, is whether the microphone amplifier tube is the correct one. If a 12AU7 had been installed in place of a 12AX7, the gain would be somewhat lower, but the tube might check 100%. 73, Fred, K4DII |
#10
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![]() Michael Black wrote: Jeremy Salch ) writes: Fred McKenzie wrote: On CW it puts out a good solid 100Watts.. But on SSB it only puts out about 10W unless I whistly loudly into the mic. Jeremy- I had two SB-102s and an HW-100 about 25 years ago. Neither had low audio, although there were numerous other problems. From the wording of your message, I assume the radio did have good audio, but now doesn't, using the same microphone et cetera. As with most tube rigs, the first thing to do was to check the tubes. Your tester would probably have shown up a problem that would have caused your low audio, even if it wasn't a conductance-type tester. The microphone must be high impedance. If you are using a low impedance microphone, you just might not have noticed the low output before. Is the microphone from Heath? They supplied a hand microphone with a high impedance ceramic element, similar to the Turner 350-C. If you happen to have a non-Heath microphone with a crystal element, it is possible the element is going bad. A Rochelle Salts crystal element must be kept at just the right humidity level. If it gets too humid, the crystal absorbs moisture and dissolves. If it gets to dry, its "waters of crystalization" evaporate and the crystal turns to powder! When you replaced resistors, did you refer to the manual for the correct value? Some of the old resistors can be misread. Mistaking red or yellow for orange in the third band, would make a ten-fold error. Beyond tubes, microphones and resistors, there may be an electrolytic capacitor that has either developed leakage or has dried out. Most of the lower value capacitors are probably OK, but no guarantee. If you have the manual, there are probably voltages marked on the circuit diagram. It might help isolate the problem if you checked them with a high impedance meter. 73 & Good Luck Fred, K4DII Yes, I referred to the manual for the values of the resisters. To explain. When i upgraded to General in 1997 or 1998, a friend donated the radio to me in "non-working" condition.. and another friend fixed it. In his fixing of the radio he said all he had to do was replace some resisters and it started working nicely. Upon closer inspection he didn't replace the resisters but he patched them. As in he added a resister in parallel to the existing resister to get it to the resistance it was supposed to be instead of removing it and putting in a totally new one. What I did was take both out and put in a totally new one on all of them i could find. As far as i know the entier time i had the rig it was low on output on SSB, but i didn't notice until i had had the rig for a year since i was a tech-plus and used the rig only on CW. First off I tryed the stock heathkit mic that i believe came with the radio and it was even worse, it would barely put our 5 - 8 watts. I found a high impedance amplified microphone that i wired up and hooked up to the radio, which then got its output up to around 10 watts.. with peaks if i whistle into it loudly. I read the manual and attempted to match the impedance of the mics to what the rig wanted. The capacitors is something i never thought about until i was reading your message. I've restored a old AM broadcast band radio once and I had to replace all the capacitors, but I never thought about it on the SB-102. But you need to look at what's different when the rig moves from CW to SSB. There are a number of methods that are used to generate CW in an SSB rig, and how it's done will help to isolate the problem. You can feed an audio tone into the AF amplifier feeding the balanced modulator, and there there is very little different. You can unbalanced the balanced modulator. You can feed the carrier oscillator around the balanced modulator, and maybe someties it's even fed around the IF filter. I have no idea which scheme is used in your rig. The audio tone method would suggest the microphone, or something in the first audio stage or so (depending on where the audio tone is injected). It can't be the balanced modulator, or anything that comes later. Unbalancing the balanced modulator would suggest the problem lies in the stage or stages between the mic jack and the balanced modulator, unless the microphone is faulty. The balanced modulator should be fine, as well as anything that comes later. Feeding the carrier oscillator around the balanced modulator, and I'm not sure how common this scheme was, would leave the problem with those audio stages or the balanced modulator. If you had an audio generator of some kind, you could try applying it right where the audio goes into the balanced modulator. I'm not sure what audo voltage level should be there, but if you applied that same audio voltage and you get full power, you know the problem lies before that. Then you move the AF generator a stage closer to the mic jack, and see if there's a drop-off in power output (one is expecting that you have a dummy load on the output for this testing). Then move the AF generator to the mic jack and see if there's a drop-off. At some point as you move towards the mic jack, there will be a drop-off, and that will be the stage that needs work. Maybe the tube, maybe a resistor, or maybe a coupling capacitor or bypass capacitor. If you still get a low output with the signal generator feeding into the balanced modulator, then the problem lies in the balanced modulator. Or, the IF filter has gone bad (not likely, and you should notice a deterioration on receive), or the carrier oscillator is not on frequency. Again, I'm not sure of the rig's scheme, but the carrier oscillator crystal may be changed when going to CW. It's possible the SSB crystal is off frequency, and so the IF filter isn't passing the signal properly. Scratch that, since you'd be noticing a problem in receive. Feed the AF generator into the balanced modulator, and vary it's frequency to see if the output changes significantly as the audio frequency changes. The problem can be broken down, but one has to start by looking at the schematic to see what could be the problem. Michael VE2BVW Let me add one other possibility based on experience with an old SB110 which I think uses similar circuitry. I was using the rig in a VHF contest and not getting through to a station about 200 miles away that I normally worked easily. Switched to CW and got a 599 and that made me realize the SSB output was down. I went through the same reasoning that it must be something that was different in SSB mode. However the problem turned out to be the tuning in an IF stage; it had drifted far enough off resonance to drop the drive way down. However in CW the unbalanced balanced modulator normally produced much more drive than mike audio so it made up for the mistuned stage. With the stage retuned, SSB was now full power and the drive control had to be reduced for CW use. Bottom line - it is worth checking the tuning on each of the IF stages. 73, John |
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