On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Have any of you made contacts through it, or directly with NA1SS?

Do any of you use NASA's www.science.nasa.gov site to determine the
footprint?


Why bother with old fashioned radio equipment when ISS is regularly on
both Echolink and IRLP? While it's true that anyone with a 2M HT
pretty much has all the equipment needed for an on-the-air contact,
the time and footprint restrictions are too severe to make that a mode
which is even practical for more than one trial contact. Tried it
once and didn't particularly like it (144.49 MHz / 145.80 MHz).

Nope, I say the VoIP Echolink or IRLP method is much more reliable.

See http://www.rac.ca/ariss/oindex.htm for info on Echolink conference
schedules. Apparently, the astronauts haven't gotten the message yet
that "Echolink isn't real ham radio."

Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Actually you do when the input is on 70 centimeters and the output
is on 2 meters. That's what "crossband" means.

Have any of you made contacts through it, or directly with NA1SS?

Do any of you use NASA's www.science.nasa.gov site to determine the
footprint?

Why bother with old fashioned radio equipment when ISS is regularly on
both Echolink and IRLP?

Becasue I LIKE "old fashioned radio equipment".

I like Amateur Radio because I LIKE radios.

Anyone can turn the computer on and "chat" with someone on the far
side of the planet.

It takes a bit of skill to do it without wires.

While it's true that anyone with a 2M HT
pretty much has all the equipment needed for an on-the-air contact,
the time and footprint restrictions are too severe to make that a mode
which is even practical for more than one trial contact. Tried it
once and didn't particularly like it (144.49 MHz / 145.80 MHz).

I've worked MIR twice on that pair and had a blast.

I guess it's easy to "not like" if you don't have the requisite
skills or capable staion to do it with.

Nope, I say the VoIP Echolink or IRLP method is much more reliable.

Perhaps it is. And if that's what spins your propeller, mor power
to you. But making a "contact" via Echolink is no more challenging
that turning the light on when you enter a room.

See http://www.rac.ca/ariss/oindex.htm for info on Echolink conference
schedules. Apparently, the astronauts haven't gotten the message yet
that "Echolink isn't real ham radio."

Some can say that about FM, or SSB, or CW, or any other mode.
However anyone can turn the computer on and work Echolink. There's no
skill in that.

73

Steve, K4YZ

On 28 Jan 2006 20:16:11 -0800, K4YZ wrote:

Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Actually you do when the input is on 70 centimeters and the output
is on 2 meters. That's what "crossband" means.

Actually, I stand by my original statement: You don't NEED crossband
capability to use the ISS repeater.

I've worked MIR twice on that pair and had a blast.

I guess it's easy to "not like" if you don't have the requisite
skills or capable staion to do it with.

I made contacts through AMSAT way back in the early 70's when the
OSCAR series of the 60's was being continued. It boiled down to being
a novelty activity for hams, but one which only imitated what
communications engineers and other professionals had pioneered long
before hams used a satellite. In fact, most OSCAR satellites were
stuffed into the unused space in government launch vehicles and were
essentially CARE packages from those who were doing the real
pioneering work.

Nope, I say the VoIP Echolink or IRLP method is much more reliable.

Perhaps it is. And if that's what spins your propeller, mor power
to you. But making a "contact" via Echolink is no more challenging
that turning the light on when you enter a room.

I see. And I suppose that, when you decide to cross a river, you
eschew the nearby bridges in favor of swimming across instead. Do you
also use a horse instead of choosing to own a car?

Some can say that about FM, or SSB, or CW, or any other mode.
However anyone can turn the computer on and work Echolink. There's no
skill in that.

Anyone can turn on a transceiver and push a button. There's no real
skill in that either.

But there *is* skill in figuring out optimal voice sampling and
compression techniques, combining them with the optimal IP protocol
(UDP/IP), and then writing and installing VoIP software to accomplish
that end, followed by setting up servers and repeaters to support it.
In fact, I submit that the hams who embraced the Internet and
developed those methods are among the most technically skilled members
of the amateur community.

If all you do is push a button, then you're an appliance operator in
my estimation.

Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 20:16:11 -0800, K4YZ wrote:

Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Actually you do when the input is on 70 centimeters and the output
is on 2 meters. That's what "crossband" means.

Actually, I stand by my original statement: You don't NEED crossband
capability to use the ISS repeater.

indeed you don't and trying to use crossband capcity can in fact be
harder than using 2 monoband radios

I've worked MIR twice on that pair and had a blast.

I guess it's easy to "not like" if you don't have the requisite
skills or capable staion to do it with.

I made contacts through AMSAT way back in the early 70's when the
OSCAR series of the 60's was being continued. It boiled down to being
a novelty activity for hams, but one which only imitated what
communications engineers and other professionals had pioneered long
before hams used a satellite. In fact, most OSCAR satellites were
stuffed into the unused space in government launch vehicles and were
essentially CARE packages from those who were doing the real
pioneering work.

Nope, I say the VoIP Echolink or IRLP method is much more reliable.

Perhaps it is. And if that's what spins your propeller, mor power
to you. But making a "contact" via Echolink is no more challenging
that turning the light on when you enter a room.

I see.
bear in mind Steve one of the folks claiming how awful it will to end
CW testing

Steve is of the S&M school of licensing claiming we must suffer to get
our licenses

And I suppose that, when you decide to cross a river, you
eschew the nearby bridges in favor of swimming across instead. Do you
also use a horse instead of choosing to own a car?

Some can say that about FM, or SSB, or CW, or any other mode.
However anyone can turn the computer on and work Echolink. There's no
skill in that.

Anyone can turn on a transceiver and push a button. There's no real
skill in that either.

But there *is* skill in figuring out optimal voice sampling and
compression techniques, combining them with the optimal IP protocol
(UDP/IP), and then writing and installing VoIP software to accomplish
that end, followed by setting up servers and repeaters to support it.
In fact, I submit that the hams who embraced the Internet and
developed those methods are among the most technically skilled members
of the amateur community.

he is not into tehinal skil instead on AIR S&M


If all you do is push a button, then you're an appliance operator in
my estimation.

Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 20:16:11 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Actually you do when the input is on 70 centimeters and the output
is on 2 meters. That's what "crossband" means.

Actually, I stand by my original statement: You don't NEED crossband
capability to use the ISS repeater.

At some place there is a receiver and a transmitter operating on
different bands in order to operate the ISS crossband repeater.

YOU may not have it at your "station"...However it's still
required. You're simply acting as the remote operator of someone
else's Amateur station.

I've worked MIR twice on that pair and had a blast.

I guess it's easy to "not like" if you don't have the requisite
skills or capable staion to do it with.

I made contacts through AMSAT way back in the early 70's when the
OSCAR series of the 60's was being continued. It boiled down to being
a novelty activity for hams, but one which only imitated what
communications engineers and other professionals had pioneered long
before hams used a satellite. In fact, most OSCAR satellites were
stuffed into the unused space in government launch vehicles and were
essentially CARE packages from those who were doing the real
pioneering work.

Which does not speak to your station NOW. Since you do not
include a callsign, all I can do is "assume" that this is a bit of
blustery buffoonery by Lennie the Licenseless or someone like him
quoting the works of others. I see a lot of that "professional
engineers are better than hams" rhetoric there.

Nope, I say the VoIP Echolink or IRLP method is much more reliable.

Perhaps it is. And if that's what spins your propeller, more power
to you. But making a "contact" via Echolink is no more challenging
that turning the light on when you enter a room.

I see. And I suppose that, when you decide to cross a river, you
eschew the nearby bridges in favor of swimming across instead. Do you
also use a horse instead of choosing to own a car?

Nope. But then neither of them is "radio". I am a licensed
Amateur RADIO operator because I enjoy operating RADIOS.

If I were an Olympic swimmer I just might cross that river IN it
rather than over it, and if I were Amish, I'd use that horse to get
around rather than a car.

Some can say that about FM, or SSB, or CW, or any other mode.
However anyone can turn the computer on and work Echolink. There's no
skill in that.

Anyone can turn on a transceiver and push a button. There's no real
skill in that either.

OK.

Just turn on a radio and push a button. Any button.

Talk to anyone without selecting the right frequency, split, mode,
antenna, etc etc etc ...?!?!

Or does it take a bit of knowledge and skill to get that radio
working into a proper antenna, on the proper frequency to actually make
that contact...?!?!

Did you make your alleged OSCAR contacts by just "pushing a
button", or did you have to know a bit about Kleperian tables, AOS/LOS
schedules, polarization techniques, Doppler effect...?!?!

But there *is* skill in figuring out optimal voice sampling and
compression techniques, combining them with the optimal IP protocol
(UDP/IP), and then writing and installing VoIP software to accomplish
that end, followed by setting up servers and repeaters to support it.
In fact, I submit that the hams who embraced the Internet and
developed those methods are among the most technically skilled members
of the amateur community.

I submit that there is a whole flock of guys out thre who just
down loaded the software and got on the computer when they were told
to. I know of at least 2 or three locally who have done exactly that.

If all you do is push a button, then you're an appliance operator in
my estimation.

Judging by the foregoing statements, I'd say you're probably not a
licensed Amateur and are just pulling rabbits out of someone else's
hat. And as for applicance operators, who built YOUR computer...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 20:16:11 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Actually you do when the input is on 70 centimeters and the output
is on 2 meters. That's what "crossband" means.

Actually, I stand by my original statement: You don't NEED crossband
capability to use the ISS repeater.

At some place there is a receiver and a transmitter operating on
different bands in order to operate the ISS crossband repeater.

whch isn't exactly the same as having croband cappicity
cut
Which does not speak to your station NOW. Since you do not
include a callsign, all I can do is "assume" that this is a bit of
blustery buffoonery by Lennie the Licenseless or someone like him
quoting the works of others. I see a lot of that "professional
engineers are better than hams" rhetoric there.

more attack sinc he has dared to disagree with you in the slughtist
cut
Nope. But then neither of them is "radio". I am a licensed
Amateur RADIO operator because I enjoy operating RADIOS.

steping up yet again

If I were an Olympic swimmer I just might cross that river IN it
rather than over it, and if I were Amish, I'd use that horse to get
around rather than a car.

Some can say that about FM, or SSB, or CW, or any other mode.
However anyone can turn the computer on and work Echolink. There's no
skill in that.

Anyone can turn on a transceiver and push a button. There's no real
skill in that either.

OK.

Just turn on a radio and push a button. Any button.

Talk to anyone without selecting the right frequency, split, mode,
antenna, etc etc etc ...?!?!

now realy going off

Or does it take a bit of knowledge and skill to get that radio
working into a proper antenna, on the proper frequency to actually make
that contact...?!?!

Did you make your alleged OSCAR contacts by just "pushing a
button", or did you have to know a bit about Kleperian tables, AOS/LOS
schedules, polarization techniques, Doppler effect...?!?!
cut
I submit that there is a whole flock of guys out thre who just
down loaded the software and got on the computer when they were told
to. I know of at least 2 or three locally who have done exactly that.

sonituing to escalte

If all you do is push a button, then you're an appliance operator in
my estimation.

Judging by the foregoing statements, I'd say you're probably not a
licensed Amateur and are just pulling rabbits out of someone else's
hat. And as for applicance operators, who built YOUR computer...?!?!

more of Steves miciron thin skin at work

an interesting case study this one s i t shows Steve acting with out
any past hsitory with the guy and he chooses to fight

Steve, K4YZ

nobodys_old_friend wrote:

" attack attack attack fight"

Gee, Markie, YOU are the one who's changed the subject line of
this thread THREE TIMES into "attack" subjects...The most current past
one being proof.

K4YZ wrote:
Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 20:16:11 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Actually you do when the input is on 70 centimeters and the output
is on 2 meters. That's what "crossband" means.

Actually, I stand by my original statement: You don't NEED crossband
capability to use the ISS repeater.

At some place there is a receiver and a transmitter operating on
different bands in order to operate the ISS crossband repeater.

whch isn't exactly the same as having croband cappicity

Sure it is.

At some point in time there HAS to be a crossband operating
Amateur Radio station to make this work. The ISS repeater is listening
on 70 centimeters. It's retransmitting on 2 meters. THAT is crossband
operation.

SOMEone had to take the time to set up the gear, put the antennas
up, etc etc etc to make it work. There are terrestrial Amateur RADIO
stations that are operating in that configuration.

cut
Which does not speak to your station NOW. Since you do not
include a callsign, all I can do is "assume" that this is a bit of
blustery buffoonery by Lennie the Licenseless or someone like him
quoting the works of others. I see a lot of that "professional
engineers are better than hams" rhetoric there.

more attack sinc he has dared to disagree with you in the slughtist

The "slughtist"...?!?!?

More made up words, Markie.

GET A DICTIONARY!

And as for the "disagreeing", I wasn't the one who initiated that
exchange. All I wanted to know was who in our "circle" were set up to
work ISS.

cut
Nope. But then neither of them is "radio". I am a licensed
Amateur RADIO operator because I enjoy operating RADIOS.

steping up yet again

How's that?

Since you snipped the relevent parts of the paragraphs, all is
left is something for you to try and snipe at.

Didn't work.

If I were an Olympic swimmer I just might cross that river IN it
rather than over it, and if I were Amish, I'd use that horse to get
around rather than a car.

Some can say that about FM, or SSB, or CW, or any other mode.
However anyone can turn the computer on and work Echolink. There's no
skill in that.

Anyone can turn on a transceiver and push a button. There's no real
skill in that either.

OK.

Just turn on a radio and push a button. Any button.

Talk to anyone without selecting the right frequency, split, mode,
antenna, etc etc etc ...?!?!

now realy going off

I am sure you are, Markie.

Prove any of my statements inaccurate...

"Larry" is the one who made some silly comments about just
"push(ing) a button"...Not me.

Or does it take a bit of knowledge and skill to get that radio
working into a proper antenna, on the proper frequency to actually make
that contact...?!?!

Did you make your alleged OSCAR contacts by just "pushing a
button", or did you have to know a bit about Kleperian tables, AOS/LOS
schedules, polarization techniques, Doppler effect...?!?!
cut
I submit that there is a whole flock of guys out thre who just
down loaded the software and got on the computer when they were told
to. I know of at least 2 or three locally who have done exactly that.

sonituing to escalte

WHAT...?!?!

What's "sonituing"...?!?!? "Escalte"...?!?!? Isn't that a new
model of Cadillac?

And Markie...Prove any of the foregoing paragraph wrong.

Do YOU know what it takes to work through ISS? Can you access the
satellites? Did you ever get a QSL card from MIR, even for an SWL
logging?

If all you do is push a button, then you're an appliance operator in
my estimation.

Judging by the foregoing statements, I'd say you're probably not a
licensed Amateur and are just pulling rabbits out of someone else's
hat. And as for applicance operators, who built YOUR computer...?!?!

more of Steves miciron thin skin at work

"Miciron"... I think that was a "planet" in an episode ot ST:TNG

an interesting case study this one s i t shows Steve acting with out
any past hsitory with the guy and he chooses to fight

No fight, Markie. Someone without the cajones to identify
him/herself throws in some slap-in-the-face comments to a straight
forward, no "insults" post.

I appreciate that some people like using VoIP over real radios.
I've never once said "that's not real Ham Radio". However "Larry" here
wanted to dig in and try to impress us with how "modern" his way is
over direct contact communication with the ISS via Amateur Radio.
That's MY prefered way of communicating, and if he cares to have his
preferences respected, he didn't need to dive in like he did. And in
the long run, "my" way still requires a bit more skill and technique
than Larry putting a sound card in his pooter.

His comments have Lennism written all over them. That's not to
say that Lennie wrote them, it's just the same "ideal". That YOU were
so quick to jump in and "defend" them only reinforces that concept.

Steve, K4YZ

Larry wrote:
On 29 Jan 2006 20:42:04 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 20:16:11 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Larry wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 06:12:03 -0800, K4YZ wrote:
Greetings All,

Are any of you equipped to work the ISS crossband repeater?

Actually, you don't need crossband capability to use the ISS repeater.

Actually you do when the input is on 70 centimeters and the output
is on 2 meters. That's what "crossband" means.

Actually, I stand by my original statement: You don't NEED crossband
capability to use the ISS repeater.

At some place there is a receiver and a transmitter operating on
different bands in order to operate the ISS crossband repeater.

From http://www.rac.ca/ariss/oindex.htm#F...ies%20in%20use --

"The following frequencies are currently used for ARISS general QSO's
Voice and Packet Downlink: 145.80 (Worldwide)
Voice Uplink: 144.49 for Regions 2 and 3 (The Americas, and the Pacific)
Voice Uplink: 145.20 for Region 1 (Europe, Central Asia and Africa)
Packet Uplink: 145.99 (Worldwide)
Crossband FM repeater downlink: 145.80 MHz (Worldwide)
Crossband FM repeater uplink: 437.80 MHz (Worldwide)"

See the 2M uplink frequencies? That means you can stay in the 2M band
if you wish, and that crossband is optional, just as I originally
stated.

My INITIAL question was about operating the CROSSBAND REPEATER in
the first place, and nothing you have posted here changes any of that.

Your "uplink" frequencies are accurate ONLY for direct voice
contacts with the crew or packet uplinks to the NA1SS autobot...NOT the
repeater.

If you wish to work the CROSSBAND REPEATER you must have the
requisite equipment (unless, of course, you're just going to use
someone ELSE'S equipment by using Echolink.....But you are STILL
operating CROSSBAND)

Did you make your alleged OSCAR contacts by just "pushing a
button", or did you have to know a bit about Kleperian tables, AOS/LOS
schedules, polarization techniques, Doppler effect...?!?!

Those were the days of 2M home brewers; not the repeater appliance
operators who later dominated the band. I built my own transmitter
and used a low noise down converter in front of a 10M receiver. By
the way, those are "Keplerian" tables, and nobody in his right mind
would use those things when simple-to-use orbital nomographs were
readily available.

My misplelling noted, however nothing is changed.

But there *is* skill in figuring out optimal voice sampling and
compression techniques, combining them with the optimal IP protocol
(UDP/IP), and then writing and installing VoIP software to accomplish
that end, followed by setting up servers and repeaters to support it.
In fact, I submit that the hams who embraced the Internet and
developed those methods are among the most technically skilled members
of the amateur community.

I submit that there is a whole flock of guys out thre who just
down loaded the software and got on the computer when they were told
to. I know of at least 2 or three locally who have done exactly that.

If all you do is push a button, then you're an appliance operator in
my estimation.

Judging by the foregoing statements, I'd say you're probably not a
licensed Amateur and are just pulling rabbits out of someone else's

Actually, I've been licensed longer than you have, but my ego doesn't
depend upon my ham license.

Nor mine, however since you don't seem to have what it takes to
put your name behind your words, they may as well be penned by Ton
Clancy.

Nor am I stupid enough to put my name or
call in front of convicted felony stalkers such as W4AMP.

To the best of my knowledge, he's not a resident of this group.
Moreover, despite the childish whinings of KB9RQZ, there's not a person
here who's been in 1 seconds worth of danger due to "stalkers".

It's a lame excuse for not having any conviction.

I have been
licensed since I was 16, which makes my license term in excess of 40
years now.

Congratulations.

I've also published articles in several radio magazines, including a
cover article featured in Ham Radio Magazine.

Oh geeze....NO WONDER you sound like Lennie!

And no wonder "Ham Radio" is a footnote in Amateur Radio rather
than an active part of it!

hat. And as for applicance operators, who built YOUR computer...?!?!

I contributed to its operating system (Linux) and have been active in
Linux development since 1992. Some of my software can be found in
both the Red Hat Fedora and Slackware Linux distributions, to name two
distros I've recently checked. You can also find my software on major
distribution sites such as http://www.ibiblio.org.

Well congratulations then. I am sure you're happy where you are.

Tell me: What software have YOU written for YOUR computer lately?

I haven't...but then I didn't suggest that I did!

I was discussing Amateur RADIO.

Now I have to terminate this "conversation." Getting into a ####ing
contest wasn't my original intent, but you've drawn me partially into
one, and now I must extract myself from it. If you still think I'm
bloviating, so be it.

You ARE "bloviating".

I've pointed out in each and every post where I was discussing the
crossband REPEATER and you keep trying to discuss something else.

The ONLY Amateur Radio voice repeater on the ISS is the CROSSBAND
one.

And a "####ing contest" certainly WAS your objective when you
found it necessary to "answer" an inquiry with answers that were, in
their very nature, confrontational and NOT within the parameters of the
initial inquiry.

I'm outta here.

Don't let the door...well...you know...

AMF.

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
cut

Nor am I stupid enough to put my name or
call in front of convicted felony stalkers such as W4AMP.

To the best of my knowledge, he's not a resident of this group.
Moreover, despite the childish whinings of KB9RQZ, there's not a person
here who's been in 1 seconds worth of danger due to "stalkers".

more attcks amore ****
cut


And a "####ing contest" certainly WAS your objective when you
found it necessary to "answer" an inquiry with answers that were, in
their very nature, confrontational and NOT within the parameters of the
initial inquiry.

aginai with micron thin skin

I'm outta here.

Don't let the door...well...you know...

yea exactly what you want to run ANYBODY that does bow to your will off
here

AMF.

Steve, K4YZ

nobodys old friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
cut

Nor am I stupid enough to put my name or
call in front of convicted felony stalkers such as W4AMP.

To the best of my knowledge, he's not a resident of this group.
Moreover, despite the childish whinings of KB9RQZ, there's not a person
here who's been in 1 seconds worth of danger due to "stalkers".

more attcks amore ####

More profanity from a mentally challenged, funtionally illiterate
idiot.

And a "####ing contest" certainly WAS your objective when you
found it necessary to "answer" an inquiry with answers that were, in
their very nature, confrontational and NOT within the parameters of the
initial inquiry.

aginai with micron thin skin

"aginai"...?!?!?

I'm outta here.

Don't let the door...well...you know...

yea exactly what you want to run ANYBODY that does bow to your will off
here

It's not my "will", Markie.

"Larry", despite his self-proclaimed expertise, knowledge, and
experience doesn't seem to understand what the term "crossband" means
as it pertains to Amateur Radio application.

He came in purporting to "know a better way", yet obviously didn't
know what he was talking about. He offered to leave and I suggested he
duck that swinging door.

Steve, K4YZ