On Sep 7, 8:46*pm, wrote:
On Sep 7, 2:43 pm, Michael Black wrote:



Nobody has ground their crystals from scratch
since about the 1930's,
if even then. I've been licensed since 1972 and in all the time
since
then I've never seen anything about it, not in magazines and books
going back to the late 1940's and not in more recent material.

There were articles in QST in the 1920s about cutting and grinding
your own crystals from the raw quartz, making holders, etc. A lot of
work and specialized equipment. The market was such that the
specialists quickly took over in the early 1930s.

After WW2 the enormous amount of surplus dominated the amateur market
for decades. Many of the "new" FT-243 crystals we bought were actually
surplus holders with new crystal inside.

I do
recall the 1964 article in QST about a buy in SOuth America who
made his own tubes.

There's a guy in France doing it today. Has a movie on his website.
But again, lots of work and specialized equipment.

Go back far enough, and hams just needed crystals within
the band.
They had relatively little need for exact frequencies.

Well, yes and no.

Some xtal frequencies were more prized than others, because the
harmonics fell in higher bands.

I suspect even if the Handbook did give such details at one time,
little bits may be lost since when something is current, "everyone
knows" things that may not be obvious to someone who comes
later.

That's true of many things. Reading older radio books and magazines
can require knowledge of a lot of the jargon and methods of the day.



Now, they need them on exact frequencies, and they want them in
nice small packages, none of those FT-243 ones that were held
together with pressure.

The big difference is plated electrodes vs. pressure electrodes.
FT-243s are capable of quite good accuracy; .005% was common, which
works out to 200 Hz at 4 MHz.

Pre-WW2 xtals were big and rugged, but used a lot of quartz. Radio-
grade natural quartz came almost exclusively from Brazil, and the
difficulty of supply caused US xtal makers to develop xtal designs
that used less quartz. The FT-243 was ultra-miniature in its time!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Absolutely jim

Looky at the January 1934 issue of QST.it's all there.
A yl friend of mine told me bigger is better, I know she's right
even when it comes to crystals.

As far as accuracy goes you know you can pull it to the frequency you
want
if your'e close enough, it's the oven you need to keep em on
frequency.

73 OM
n8zu

wrote:

My personal theory on why it [code test] was eliminated is this:
Since the early 1980s, the FCC has been required to do more and more
stuff with less and less resources. So they have constantly sought out
ways to reduce their workload, particularly for radio services that
don't bring in $$, like ham radio.

And another theory is that the code mode is simply obsolete so why test
for it. No more horse driving government tests either. Course
for people who like it, they can still work CW and drive horses.

But even though the last remnants of the Morse Code test were removed
back in February 2007, there are still plenty of hams using it on the
air.

Yea, but there's less and less each year as the old guys die off. I know
you work CW so you know that the vast majority of your CW QSOs are with
people in their 60's and over. One foot in the proverbial grave.

This past Field Day, for example, the group I went with had one
Morse Code station and three voice stations, all similarly equipped.
There were three Morse Code operators and far more voice ops, yet the
Morse Code station made more QSOs than all the voice stations
combined. This wasn't a surprise, either.

You don't really call those guys with the computers and keyboards
who ruin the CW bands on contest weekends CW ops do you ???

On Sep 8, 1:33�am, AJ Lake wrote:
wrote:
My personal theory on why it [code test] was eliminated is this:
Since the early 1980s, the FCC has been required to do more and more
stuff with less and less resources. So they have constantly sought out
ways to reduce their workload, particularly for radio services that
don't bring in $$, like ham radio.

And another theory is that the code mode is simply obsolete so why test
for it. No more horse driving government tests either. Course
for people who like it, they can still work CW and drive horses.

That theory doesn't hold water because Morse Code isn't obsolete on
the HF/MF ham bands. You hear a lot more hams using Morse Code on
those bands than you see people riding or driving horses.

A much more reasonable theory would be that most states do not test a
driver's ability to operate a manual transmission.

But even though the last remnants of the Morse Code test were removed
back in February 2007, there are still plenty of hams using it on the
air.

Yea, but there's less and less each year as the old guys die off.

That doesn't seem to be happening. Groups such as FISTS and SKCC have
increasing numbers of members. Participation in contests using Morse
Code isn't declining increasing even with terrible sunspot numbers.
Look at the results of the ARRL 160 meter contest for the past several
years - and it's all-CW.

I know
you work CW so you know that the vast majority of your CW QSOs are with
people in their 60's and over.

No, they're not. Sure there are lots of hams who are senior citizens
but there are also a lot who aren't - and who use Morse Code on the
air.

Plus the whole US population is getting older. People are living
longer and having fewer kids, for one thing. The median age for US
residents back in 2000 was 39 years and some months (according to the
Census Bureau). And it keeps increasing.

One foot in the proverbial grave.

How old are *yiu*? I'm 54, been a ham 41 years.

What led me to my theory is that the FCC didn't just drop the Morse
Code tests, they simplified and reduced all the testing as well as the
administrative procedures. For almost 30 years, every change was in
the direction of making less work for FCC, to save resources.

This past Field Day, for example, the group I went with had one
Morse Code station and three voice stations, all similarly equipped.
There were three Morse Code operators and far more voice ops, yet the
Morse Code station made more QSOs than all the voice stations
combined. This wasn't a surprise, either.

You don't really call those guys with the computers and keyboards
who ruin the CW bands on contest weekends CW ops do you ???

Why not? All the computer does is keep the log and maybe call CQ. The
'phone stations had the same computer logging system, all networked to
a central server. Yet the CW ops outdid them easily.

As for "ruining the CW bands" - the only "CW bands" in Part 97 are the
bottom 100 kHz of 6 and 2 meters. All the other bands where CW is
allowed share the space with other modes, such as RTTY and PSK31.

It's just beautiful when the bands are full of hams making QSOs. Not
"ruined" at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:

That theory doesn't hold water because Morse Code isn't obsolete on
the HF/MF ham bands.

The code may be fun to use as a *hobby* but it is obsolete
as in the dictionary definition: to become disused, old fashioned,
and no longer up to date.

The FCC (and the rest of the world) just recognized that
requiring people to become human modems to
get a ham license didn't make sense. Maybe it did in WW2
when a pool of human CW ops was needed, but certainly not now.

Groups such as FISTS and SKCC have
increasing numbers of members.

You won't win this one on the numbers. Do you really
think the number of active CW ops today compares
with the numbers there were in the 50s?

Participation in contests using Morse Code isn't declining...

No unfortunately contests are just as bad as ever.

the only "CW bands" in Part 97 are the
bottom 100 kHz of 6 and 2 meters.

Playing word cop is not your style, sorry to see you do it. The
'CW bands' are common ham jargon not lawyer speak. Just as
using the term CW when you mean the code mode.

"AJ Lake" wrote in message
...
wrote:

That theory doesn't hold water because Morse Code isn't obsolete on
the HF/MF ham bands.

The code may be fun to use as a *hobby* but it is obsolete
as in the dictionary definition: to become disused, old fashioned,
and no longer up to date.

The FCC (and the rest of the world) just recognized that
requiring people to become human modems to
get a ham license didn't make sense. Maybe it did in WW2
when a pool of human CW ops was needed, but certainly not now.

Groups such as FISTS and SKCC have
increasing numbers of members.

You won't win this one on the numbers. Do you really
think the number of active CW ops today compares
with the numbers there were in the 50s?

Participation in contests using Morse Code isn't declining...

No unfortunately contests are just as bad as ever.

the only "CW bands" in Part 97 are the
bottom 100 kHz of 6 and 2 meters.

Playing word cop is not your style, sorry to see you do it. The
'CW bands' are common ham jargon not lawyer speak. Just as
using the term CW when you mean the code mode.


You'd think that now that no one is being forced, it shouldn't be an issue.
Maybe the real problem all along was people who really have a problem with
other people's hobbies. You people really need to quit bashing each other's
hobby. What you screw around and loose for someone else, you lose too.
Obsolete is a favorite word of the salesman that wants to con you out of
what you have, to sell you something else. For better or worse. So don't
buy into it. You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all. That's been motivating nearly everything
they have done since the 70's. But, Ok a bunch of whiners screamed and
cried and held their breath and now even the Extra Class is code free.
Doesn't make much sense because all you get is some CW subbands anyway.

All the Anti-CW arguments could easily be used against Ham Radio in general.
I don't even want to hear obsolete. I still have a manual typewriter to
fill out odd forms and in case power goes out. I still have a VCR because
there are movies that I don't see on DVD yet. I even use CW on VHF and
above to make contacts that can't seem to be done any other way. People
scream about Digital! Digital! OK WHICH DIGITAL do you use. There are more
than a dozen modes out there, so how are you going to make the contact that
is gone in 60 seconds because of propagation? Let me know when you have a
free software package that instantly decodes ANY MODE and doesn't even
require a computer or extra hardware, is operable across all bands and digs
weak signals better than CW, then CW will be obsolete. The fact that CW is
allowed EVERYWHERE and can be received by any SSB RCVR make it a universal
mode of communications. It is also the most useful means of station
identification. Don't tell me it's obsolete if you don't know anything
about it.

There is a rail system in India that was set up in the 20's and is still in
use because it works so well for what they use it for. They would screw up
a good thing to try to replace it with anything more complex.

raypsi wrote:
Hey Gary,

Rocks aren't cheap he http://www.icmfg.com/thruhole_crystals.html
Maybe in 9 land they pave the streets with gold.
Personally I'd go with a programmable divider or PLL.

Maybe you like retro, then I'd get some old rocks the ones
you can take apart and grind them down to git's the freq's you need.
I recall grinding some of these to get them into the novice band back
40 yrs ago.
And putting a pencil mark on the quartz to get them to go down in
frequency.
FT243 style can be found here maybe still: http://www.af4k.com/crystals.htm


73 OM

n8zu

On Sep 2, 4:12 pm, Gary@ removenospamandputkf9cm.com wrote:
I am looking for some Heterodyne conversion crystals for a receiver I am
making.
The frequencies a 5 MHz, 7 MHz, 10.5 MHz, 13.5 MHz, 17.5 MHz and 21.5
MHz.
The variable mixing frequency will be from 3 to 3.5 MHz. I would prefer all
the same type holder.

TNX de Gary, KF9CM

You can use the same grinding powder that ATM's (amateur Telescope
makers) use to grind mirrors for grinding crystals. You want the fine
stuff #400 or finer. www.gotgrit.com has this stuff cheap.
Grind the crystal against a piece of scrap plate glass. I've had mixed
results, I've moved a few rocks a few hundred khz and I've also killed
some trying to move them just a few hundred hz.

Only grind ONE side of the rock, put a pencil mark on the other so you
don't mix this up. Wash the crystal well after each grinding session
and only handle it by the edges, you don't want your finger sweat or
oils getting on the crystal. Grinding motion should be a figure 8, use
light pressure and don't push down on the middle of the crystal, handle
by the edges while grinding.

If you do kill the crystal, you might be able to get it to start again
by light grinding using a different motion. Also try holding the
crystal vertical and grind the edges slightly. Measure the thickness
(carefully!) with a micrometer all around. If you ground a 'wedge'
shape into the rock this will also kill and and the cure is to regrind
putting more pressure on the fatter end.

I have quite a few useless FT243 rocks in the junk box, one of these
days I'll probably try moving a few of them to a more useful frequency.

BTW some of those 'useless' frequency rocks do multiply out into some
ham bands.

A few examples from my junk box:
4845khz - 29070khz (10 meters)
6050khz - 18150khz (17 meters)
6025khz - 18075khz (17 meters)
4785khz - 28710hkz (10 meters)
5300khz - 21200hkz (15 meters)