On 01/12/15 18:38, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for
Ä¢65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from
the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old
Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars
out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable'
radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an
FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The
quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying
to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the
narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more
demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long
ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people
want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable,
cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable
transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?


Absolutely. The same has happened in other areas. My comment wasn't in
anyway 'anti' US. If anything the US has a better track record of
adapting
to the problems of having to compete with such competition. We've been
saddled with short sighted management, Unions, and Government policies.

Actually, my comment was to acknowledge that the UK had some of their
own manufacturers, something that's easy to forget over here in North
America. I can't even remember the famous one, though I do remember
Eddystone.

Michael


You may be thinking of Racal.

As for recognising our manufacturers, you are quite correct. However,
while Jerry seemed to think I was bashing Collins etc., in fact my
comments were far more about the way established companies (including in
the UK) can fail to see where the market is heading. Conversely, the
Japanese (and others since) have tended to be much more market aware.



--
Why you should not ignore animal neglect and cruelty:
http://www.caar-uk.org/why.html

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 01/12/15 18:38, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for
Ä¢65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from
the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old
Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars
out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable'
radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an
FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The
quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying
to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the
narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more
demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long
ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people
want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable,
cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable
transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?


Absolutely. The same has happened in other areas. My comment wasn't in
anyway 'anti' US. If anything the US has a better track record of
adapting
to the problems of having to compete with such competition. We've been
saddled with short sighted management, Unions, and Government policies.

Actually, my comment was to acknowledge that the UK had some of their
own manufacturers, something that's easy to forget over here in North
America. I can't even remember the famous one, though I do remember
Eddystone.

Michael


You may be thinking of Racal.

No, but I hadn't temporarily forgotten Racal. I gather the one with the
Wadley Loop was intended to be on par with the Collins R390.

It wsa "KW" that I was thinking of, and I thought there was more to it, so
I hesitated. That's the most obvious amateur radio company that I can
think of from the UK. I remember reading older issue of CQ, and a woman
wrote often about things in the UK, her husband and son were hams, and
there'd be pictures of the KW Electronics equipment.

As for recognising our manufacturers, you are quite correct. However, while
Jerry seemed to think I was bashing Collins etc., in fact my comments were
far more about the way established companies (including in the UK) can fail
to see where the market is heading. Conversely, the Japanese (and others
since) have tended to be much more market aware.

Yes. The Collins S line (and KWM-2) came out about 1959, I have the issue
of CQ where there is a color insert introducing the line, and and over a
decade later they were still selling it. They didn't change the line
until after Rockwell bought Collins. A lot of those US companies failed
fro a variety of reasons, I gather some of it because they relied on
Military orders, but also they didn't adapt that much, and especially to
solid state. National had the HRO-500 in 1964 and some ham transceivers
in the rest of the sixties, but that was about it. By the time they
issued the HRO-600, there were a relative few made, and it was intended
for government use (ie too expensive for hams). Hallicrafters adapted by
rebadging Japanese solid state gear. I gather some of the problem wasn't
just an inability to get into solid state, but if you were wiring up tube
radios to sell, you'd have to retool to adjust to solid state, especially
with circuit boards. Even the traditional electronic parts stores here
(which also were the places to get ham equipment) mostly disappeared in
the seventies, too stuck with the old tube type parts, new companies
coming along to sell the solid state devices.

Michael

On 30/11/2015 21:34, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
don't wish too hard the alinco line has now BEEN RUINED turned into crap
chinky stuff...compare the DR135MK3 WITH THE new cheaper DR138 CHINKY
NEW MODEL...CRAP

read this good-bye alinco ....

https://hamgear.wordpress.com/2014/1...as-we-know-it/

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons