On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:22:48 -0800, JeffM wrote:

a solution...charge for bytes times # of recipients.
If you send an email with more than five recipients,
it costs you a dime apiece for each additional recipient.
Rich Grise

You'd need a waiver for piclist.

Fine. Put in a mechanism where mailing lists can get a waiver, and if
an individual sends a spam to the list, you cut him off. And, of course,
configure the majordomo to drop it.

Thanks,
Rich

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:34:47 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
....
In a way, it's equivalent to commercials on free TV (and even cable,
these

No, it's not! Commercials in the media pay their fair share to the
media. Spammers, w/o permission, abuse services from the ISPs and our
inboxes without paying their fair share. Spammers are thieves.


Ok, good point.

So, do _you_ want to volunteer to track them down and arrest them so that
we can lynch them?

In the interim, here's a blacklist:
http://www.neodruid.net/LATEST_BLACKLIST

Just add them to your firewall's "DROP" list.

Cheers!
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:34:47 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover" wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
In a way, it's equivalent to commercials on free TV (and even
cable,
these

No, it's not! Commercials in the media pay their fair share to the
media. Spammers, w/o permission, abuse services from the ISPs and
our
inboxes without paying their fair share. Spammers are thieves.


Ok, good point.

So, do _you_ want to volunteer to track them down and arrest them so
that
we can lynch them?

I did my volunteering back in the mid- to late-'90s. I'm long past the
point of being burned out. I used to keep a blacklist of recipes for
the procmail filter that I ran on my unix shell acct. I used to get the
original King of Spam, Spamford Wallace's Cyberpromo spams. He's
recently been in the news for infecting PCs with a spyware in order to
sell them a spyware removal program. Dirty, stinking, filthy,
ex-spammer rat!

BTW, there are spam filters that will run under Procmail or Perl
scripts. Check them out, especially if they're Bayesian filters.

In the interim, here's a blacklist:
http://www.neodruid.net/LATEST_BLACKLIST

Just add them to your firewall's "DROP" list.

Cheers!
Rich

"John Woodgate" wrote in message
...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover" wrote (in

pernews.com) about 'SPAMMERS (was Digikey doth truly rule', on
Mon,
28 Feb 2005:
It already has been implemented by some ISPs. It's called
teergrubing.
That's the German word for tarpit.

Does that make the spammers guilty of moral tarpitude?

Dunno, but I'm not shedding a teer for the grubby little *******s!

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

"mc" wrote in message
...

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
wrote
in message ...

But someday all the i's will get dotted and t's crossed and the
spammers
will not have any way to hide. That may take IPV6, which seems like
it
should have been implemented long ago, but still hasn't. Don't hold
your breath.

Yes. And people will whine about the loss of their precious
"electronic
frontier" as the Internet ceases to be a fantasyland above and beyond
the
law.

Only in their minds.

The Internet was designed for use within research establishments where
people were all, at some level, accountable and trustworthy. It has
become
a playground for con artists and pests.

All, at some level, accountable and trustworthy? Not really. The first
spam was in 1978, so there were problems from the beginning.

Basically what you have is the virtual world has become a microcosm of
the real world. Nothing more, nothing less.

It may take another half century. I'm reminded of the chaos that
afflicted
radio before WWI. People just chose their own frequencies and hoped
nobody
would interfere with them, knowingly or unknowingly.

Well, they say that 5 years in the virtual world is an eternity...

(And thus I bring the subject matter back to that of the newsgroups
we're
in!

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"
wrote:

You can't legalize something that had no prior restrictions because
it
was _already_ legal.

There are those who feel that the CAN SPAM law both legitimizes and
legalizes spam, in two ways:

- It sets specific Federal boundaries on what sorts of spam are
illegal (and thus by implication states that spams which don't
cross those boundaries are legitimate), and

In order to be constitutional the law has to meet certain criteria. One
is that it has to put limits on commercial speech without being
burdensome. The law has to be explicit enough to keep itr from being
defeated on appeal.

- It preempts most State laws which had stronger restrictions on
spamming, and therefore makes legal certain spams which were
previously forbidden by State law.

For five years, Calif had laws that were on the books but were
unenforced. They were challengd as unconstitutional. They and 35 other
state laws weren't consistent, making it a mess for the courts and
lawyers in every state. We had 36 different tools but they were largely
unused. Now there is a consistent set of national laws with much better
chance of being enforced. Someone has to light a fire under the feds to
get them to step up the enforcement. All this bitching, whining and
nmoaning about what used to be and how bad it is now is a huge waste of
time. Get over it and proceed on with the tools given to us, and hammer
the spammers.

--
Dave Platt
AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page:
http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

The Internet was designed for use within research establishments where
people were all, at some level, accountable and trustworthy. It has
become
a playground for con artists and pests.

All, at some level, accountable and trustworthy? Not really. The first
spam was in 1978, so there were problems from the beginning.

There was very little until the 1990s, and if the first spam was in 1978,
then we had about 7 years of good networking before there was any.

In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

For five years, Calif had laws that were on the books but were
unenforced. They were challengd as unconstitutional. They and 35 other
state laws weren't consistent, making it a mess for the courts and
lawyers in every state. We had 36 different tools but they were largely
unused. Now there is a consistent set of national laws with much better
chance of being enforced. Someone has to light a fire under the feds to
get them to step up the enforcement. All this bitching, whining and
nmoaning about what used to be and how bad it is now is a huge waste of
time. Get over it and proceed on with the tools given to us, and hammer
the spammers.

Horse exhaust.

You-Can-Spam, under the guise of improving the situation by applying
one uniform law everywhere, forced everything into one badly-fitting,
Procrustean bed, overriding and effectively nullifying existing state
laws, some of which (Washington, California) were *very* much better
written and more effective.

Yes, those laws got challenged as unconstitutional. A challenge by
itself means nothing; it's the *OUTCOME* of the challenge that means
something, and the Washington and California laws survived all the
challenges against them. It's because they survived those challenges,
thereby putting fear into the cryostats[1] of the folks who run the
advertising industry and of the Senators from Coca-Cola, Time-Warner,
and the other big owners of federal legislators, that You-Can-Spam
came to be.

Private right of action used to exist because of state laws, but that
right now has been removed by You-Can-Spam, and only providers and
Attorneys General have standing to sue.

You-Can-Spam is tailor-made for the advertising industry, which comes
as no surprise to me, because the folks who really wrote it certainly
appear to have been advertising industry lobbyists.

If you don't like all the bitching, whining, and moaning about what
used to be, then you have the right to move somewhere that prohibits
it. Choose carefully: places that prohibit it may not let you move out
again. Me, I'll stay here and bitch, whine, moan, and lean hard on my
congresscritters.

[1] We can be quite certain that they don't have hearts. A heart is
not capable of pumping liquid Helium.

Followups to news.admin.net-abuse.email, where this subthread belongs.

--
Mike Andrews, W5EGO

Tired old sysadmin

"Mike Andrews" wrote in message
...
In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew),
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

For five years, Calif had laws that were on the books but were
unenforced. They were challengd as unconstitutional. They and 35
other
state laws weren't consistent, making it a mess for the courts and
lawyers in every state. We had 36 different tools but they were
largely
unused. Now there is a consistent set of national laws with much
better
chance of being enforced. Someone has to light a fire under the
feds to
get them to step up the enforcement. All this bitching, whining and
nmoaning about what used to be and how bad it is now is a huge waste
of
time. Get over it and proceed on with the tools given to us, and
hammer
the spammers.

Horse exhaust.

You-Can-Spam, under the guise of improving the situation by applying
one uniform law everywhere, forced everything into one badly-fitting,
Procrustean bed, overriding and effectively nullifying existing state
laws, some of which (Washington, California) were *very* much better
written and more effective.

Yes, those laws got challenged as unconstitutional. A challenge by
itself means nothing; it's the *OUTCOME* of the challenge that means
something, and the Washington and California laws survived all the
challenges against them. It's because they survived those challenges,
thereby putting fear into the cryostats[1] of the folks who run the
advertising industry and of the Senators from Coca-Cola, Time-Warner,
and the other big owners of federal legislators, that You-Can-Spam
came to be.

Private right of action used to exist because of state laws, but that
right now has been removed by You-Can-Spam, and only providers and
Attorneys General have standing to sue.

You-Can-Spam is tailor-made for the advertising industry, which comes
as no surprise to me, because the folks who really wrote it certainly
appear to have been advertising industry lobbyists.

If you don't like all the bitching, whining, and moaning about what
used to be, then you have the right to move somewhere that prohibits
it. Choose carefully: places that prohibit it may not let you move out
again. Me, I'll stay here and bitch, whine, moan, and lean hard on my
congresscritters.

[1] We can be quite certain that they don't have hearts. A heart is
not capable of pumping liquid Helium.

Followups to news.admin.net-abuse.email, where this subthread belongs.

--
Mike Andrews, W5EGO

Tired old sysadmin

You can belittle others for their opinions, and bitch and whine about
the situation at hand. But like they say, when life hands you a lemon,
make lemonade. Quitcherbitchin, and get on with life. You're
complaining to the wrong crowd - almost everyone really don't care what
you or i think.

Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:

You can belittle others for their opinions, and bitch and whine about
the situation at hand. But like they say, when life hands you a lemon,
make lemonade. Quitcherbitchin, and get on with life. You're
complaining to the wrong crowd - almost everyone really don't care what
you or i think.
--------------------------------
There ain't no "life". There are people. When these ****-****ing
mother-****ing *******s hand you lemons you simply gang-up on them
and KILL them. THEN they'll ****ing STOP! THAT'S what Democracy is!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public