wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:52:36 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Not entirely true, the few lucky people who have been able to find
honest, reliable mechanics do tend to speak highly of them.


Only those who have the sense to know the value of finding and keeping
a good mechanic (or any other tradesman/proffessional) There are fewer
of THEM out there than there are honest reliable mechanics.


Its like the days when there were real TV shops. The techs knew what
they were doing, and went to every available factory school to keep up
with the new designs. Most people thought you just shoved tubes in till
the set worked, and that it was criminal to even want to make minimum
wage. They were rude, ignorant, and price shopped for the cheapest
service calls. Well, guess what? The cheapest service calls were the
fly by night operators who worked out of the trunk of their car, or in
one case, a dirty old hippie in a VW van that reeked of marijuana some.
It was rare to find a good customer who understood that it took time to
repair something, and some parts took time to find.

We had a "Customer" take us to small claims court because we charged
for an estimate. He claimed that his mechanic didn't charge for an
estimate, so we had no right to, either. He and the judge had big
smiles on their faces as they told my boss he was wrong. My boss plopped
a RCA CTC38 series chassis on the Judge's bench and said, Well, in that
case would you mind telling me what's wrong with this set? The judge
started yelling that he had no idea what was wrong so my boss asked, If
you can't tell by looking, how can we? We have to find the problem,
replace the part and make sure there are no other problems before we can
give you an accurate estimate. He won the case.



It just wasn't fun any more after 25 years - and its gotten a whole
lot worse in the last 15 or more years.

Remember that the people bringing in the cars in the last 15 years or so
as you have noted, are the parents (or now their children) from the
generation that has deluded themselves into the belief that mechanical
trades (dirty jobs) are somehow devoid of education and skill and have
actively discouraged their children from having any interest in such
things.

This delusion of the PYVs (plastic yuppie vermin) is furthered by the
increasing complexity of cars and the thought that the grease monkeys
couldn't possibly understand anything about computers so they must just
be swapping parts until things magically start working.

And I got out of the mechanics trade and into the computer service
world - - -.

It's only going to get worse too...

That's what I decided 17 years ago. And I was right.

Now everybody's kid wants to be a computer tech instead of a mechanic
- and for the same reason kids wanted to be mechanics 40 years ago. 40
years ago the "gearheads" wanted to be mechanics to fool around with
their first love - the CAR.
Now the "computer nerds" want to be able to play with THEIR first love
- the Computer / Game console/ Whatever.
And they will work for almost nothing just to be able to do it. and
their method of repair??? "swapping parts until things magically start
working"


I started computer repair on the old Commodore 64. A scope and good
soldering skills were a must. I built a test bed with ZIF sockets to
test the different chips so I could verify that they were bad, and to
test new chips when they arrived for wherever I could buy them. Now,
I'm old and disabled so I repair PCs as a hobby. I collect dead and half
stripped computers and build working systems from the parts. They are
given to the local "Vets helping Vets" program so they can be given to
disabled Veterans who can not afford to buy a computer. It gives me
something to do for a few hours a day, but I really miss building TV
stations and telemetry equipment for the aerospace industry.

Time for a THIRD career?? (4th if you include teaching)

Pete C.


--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Pete C. wrote:

Remember that the people bringing in the cars in the last 15 years or so
as you have noted, are the parents (or now their children) from the
generation that has deluded themselves into the belief that mechanical
trades (dirty jobs) are somehow devoid of education and skill and have
actively discouraged their children from having any interest in such
things.

I think you mean they are the "children (or now parents)"- this type of
mental dyslexia is disturbing to the meticulous reader.


This delusion of the PYVs (plastic yuppie vermin) is furthered by the
increasing complexity of cars and the thought that the grease monkeys
couldn't possibly understand anything about computers so they must just
be swapping parts until things magically start working.

I like that- PYV- good acronym- or "awesome" as the PYV say.

Ignoramus12834 wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:52:36 GMT, Pete C. wrote:

This delusion of the PYVs (plastic yuppie vermin) is furthered by the
increasing complexity of cars and the thought that the grease monkeys
couldn't possibly understand anything about computers so they must just
be swapping parts until things magically start working.


They keep swapping parts because it makes them money.

A true story. A couple of years ago, a lightning struck a big tree in
our yard:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/lightning/

That also knocked out our central A/C.

So, I went in with a multimeter and tried tracing just where does not
signal go etc. I learned that the control board was sending proper
signal to the motor drive board, etc.

Then we called an A/C guy. He calls me at work and says stuff like
"the main board is probably knocked out and needs replacement", lets
replace this and that etc.

I asked him just what basis do you have for saying so. (because I knew
that it was bull****). He mumbled some nonsense. I decided not to hire
him, although I paid his visit fee. I did not feel like hiring someone
who is either incompetent or a crook. I called another A/C company and
explained them my findings etc.

He replaced the motor drive board, it was covered by warranty (but
labor was not), and everything works fine to date. Some other things
failed since, such as quick disconnect terminals fell apart on the
main contactor, but the control system is fine.

The moral of the story, they want replacing parts because it makes $$
for them.

i


The moral of the story is that you are PYV. All the electronic boards
are LRUs in the mechanical trades and there is no way that repair could
be cost effective any other way, parts are way below labor costs. In the
case of a lightning strike where one board has failed, it is good
practice to yank *all* of them and be done with it. You are getting
*new* boards at reasonable markup, you pay a single labor charge, and
there is no possibility of less than a durable fix or additional damage
being done due to faulty drive. I can see the HVAC tech breaking out the
oxy-acetylene torch to solder components...too funny.

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Remember that the people bringing in the cars in the last 15 years or so
as you have noted, are the parents (or now their children) from the
generation that has deluded themselves into the belief that mechanical
trades (dirty jobs) are somehow devoid of education and skill and have
actively discouraged their children from having any interest in such
things.

I think you mean they are the "children (or now parents)"- this type of
mental dyslexia is disturbing to the meticulous reader.

No, I meant it in the order it was in. The PYV parents came first 15 or
so years ago, followed later by the children of the PYVs once they were
old enough to have cars needing repairing.



This delusion of the PYVs (plastic yuppie vermin) is furthered by the
increasing complexity of cars and the thought that the grease monkeys
couldn't possibly understand anything about computers so they must just
be swapping parts until things magically start working.

I like that- PYV- good acronym- or "awesome" as the PYV say.

It's quick, descriptive and accurate.

Pete C.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:32:08 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Not entirely true, the few lucky people who have been able to find
honest, reliable mechanics do tend to speak highly of them.





Remember that the people bringing in the cars in the last 15 years or so
as you have noted, are the parents (or now their children) from the
generation that has deluded themselves into the belief that mechanical
trades (dirty jobs) are somehow devoid of education and skill and have
actively discouraged their children from having any interest in such
things.

This delusion of the PYVs (plastic yuppie vermin) is furthered by the
increasing complexity of cars and the thought that the grease monkeys
couldn't possibly understand anything about computers so they must just
be swapping parts until things magically start working.

It's only going to get worse too...

Pete C.


Seven or eight years ago the gas gauge quit on my dad's jeep. He
took it to the dealer. The changed the sending unit. Then they changed
the gauge. They had it over a week and still hadn't fixed it, so he paid
them over $400 to get it back. I took a look at it and found the problem
in 15 seconds. The lug on the ground wire to the sending unit had
snapped, and the wire was hanging down, in plain sight. A new lug took a
few minutes to install and it worked fine, till he traded it in on a new
car a few years later.

Shrug...I spent $65 to have my truck run though the computer
diagnostics. They couldnt find the problem, suggested some high dollar
repairs..shotgun approach.

I replaced the badly worn distro cap and the rotor. Ran fine after
than.

Im starting to think that there are more button pushers than actual
tradesmen in auto mechanics.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

I had a mid-90's Chevy S-10 with antilock brakes. One day, the brakes
made a funny sound and the service light came on. I noticed that the
brakes were not behaving properly.

I took the truck in for "Mr. Goodwrench" to take a look. They told me
that I would need a new antilock computer and the cost was something on
the order of $1000. I told them to forget it.

I limped the truck home and later, curiosity got the better of me. I
jacked up the truck so that the front wheels could spin, and then I went
hunting for wheel rotation sensors. Connecting my scope, I could see a
nice, clean sine wave coming off the front right wheel. The waveform
from the front left wheel, however, had a a very irregular shape that
was much lower in amplitude.

I purchased a new rotation sensor for $75 bucks, pulled the wheel and
brake disk, and installed it. Everything worked like a champ after that.

It appeared that the old sensor had been struck by rock, and the core of
the sense coil had probably been fractured. I was left to wonder how it
is that, without the benefit of factory training, documentation, or
diagnostic equipment I could troubleshoot and repair the problem when
the dealership could not....

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Not entirely true, the few lucky people who have been able to find
honest, reliable mechanics do tend to speak highly of them.





Remember that the people bringing in the cars in the last 15 years or so
as you have noted, are the parents (or now their children) from the
generation that has deluded themselves into the belief that mechanical
trades (dirty jobs) are somehow devoid of education and skill and have
actively discouraged their children from having any interest in such
things.

This delusion of the PYVs (plastic yuppie vermin) is furthered by the
increasing complexity of cars and the thought that the grease monkeys
couldn't possibly understand anything about computers so they must just
be swapping parts until things magically start working.

It's only going to get worse too...

Pete C.



Seven or eight years ago the gas gauge quit on my dad's jeep. He
took it to the dealer. The changed the sending unit. Then they changed
the gauge. They had it over a week and still hadn't fixed it, so he paid
them over $400 to get it back. I took a look at it and found the problem
in 15 seconds. The lug on the ground wire to the sending unit had
snapped, and the wire was hanging down, in plain sight. A new lug took a
few minutes to install and it worked fine, till he traded it in on a new
car a few years later.

"H. P. Friedrichs" wrote:

I had a mid-90's Chevy S-10 with antilock brakes. One day, the brakes
made a funny sound and the service light came on. I noticed that the
brakes were not behaving properly.

I took the truck in for "Mr. Goodwrench" to take a look. They told me
that I would need a new antilock computer and the cost was something on
the order of $1000. I told them to forget it.

I limped the truck home and later, curiosity got the better of me. I
jacked up the truck so that the front wheels could spin, and then I went
hunting for wheel rotation sensors. Connecting my scope, I could see a
nice, clean sine wave coming off the front right wheel. The waveform
from the front left wheel, however, had a a very irregular shape that
was much lower in amplitude.

I purchased a new rotation sensor for $75 bucks, pulled the wheel and
brake disk, and installed it. Everything worked like a champ after that.

It appeared that the old sensor had been struck by rock, and the core of
the sense coil had probably been fractured. I was left to wonder how it
is that, without the benefit of factory training, documentation, or
diagnostic equipment I could troubleshoot and repair the problem when
the dealership could not....

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


That is why for the few things on my truck that I don't have the
facilities to do myself and can't justify buying new tools, when I take
it to the dealer for service I give them a specific set of instructions
on what to do and clear warning that they are *not* to attempt any
diagnosis or deviate from the exact work order I give them.

Pete C.

In article ,
lid says...

Once my wife's car developed some sort of a fault light. Since I had
this code reader, I determined that the problem was with the fuel tank
and after googling, it turned out that her fuel tank cap was not fully
screwed in. Properly tightening it took care of the problem. Had I
not owned it, it would be a whole evening ruined, at least $50-100
paid to a car mechanic (that's assuming an honest car mechanic who
would not ask for unnecessary repairs), etc.

An honest mechanic would first tell you to tighten the fuel cap
before they look at it and charge nothing for the advice. This is
a *very* common proglem; BTDT. Here, most of the bigger auto parts
stores will read out the computer as a free service. They won't
reset the codes, but will tell you what the computer "thinks".

OTOH, my '93 Eagle Vision had an intermittent in the flywheel
sensor (no RPMs - no ignition/fuel) that didn't show up on the
computer until it failed with the computer attached. The shop
drove the thing for a week before the failure occured.

--
Keith

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:29:30 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:32:08 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Not entirely true, the few lucky people who have been able to find
honest, reliable mechanics do tend to speak highly of them.





Remember that the people bringing in the cars in the last 15 years or so
as you have noted, are the parents (or now their children) from the
generation that has deluded themselves into the belief that mechanical
trades (dirty jobs) are somehow devoid of education and skill and have
actively discouraged their children from having any interest in such
things.

This delusion of the PYVs (plastic yuppie vermin) is furthered by the
increasing complexity of cars and the thought that the grease monkeys
couldn't possibly understand anything about computers so they must just
be swapping parts until things magically start working.

It's only going to get worse too...

Pete C.


Seven or eight years ago the gas gauge quit on my dad's jeep. He
took it to the dealer. The changed the sending unit. Then they changed
the gauge. They had it over a week and still hadn't fixed it, so he paid
them over $400 to get it back. I took a look at it and found the problem
in 15 seconds. The lug on the ground wire to the sending unit had
snapped, and the wire was hanging down, in plain sight. A new lug took a
few minutes to install and it worked fine, till he traded it in on a new
car a few years later.

Shrug...I spent $65 to have my truck run though the computer
diagnostics. They couldnt find the problem, suggested some high dollar
repairs..shotgun approach.

I replaced the badly worn distro cap and the rotor. Ran fine after
than.

Im starting to think that there are more button pushers than actual
tradesmen in auto mechanics.

Gunner


And you need to ask why??????
Anyone with half a brain got out of the business 15 or 20 years ago.
ANd not too many with half a brain or more are getting into the
business over the last 20 years.

When I started in the late sixties, it was the lowest paid trade - bar
none.
When I taught the trade in the seventies, the attitude at the schools
was "he's too dumb to make a scientist, plumber, electrician, or
machinist out of - and too smart to be a lawyer, so we'll put him in
Auto Mechanics.

So I had to teach them electrical, plumbing, physics, machining, math,
and all the rest to make mechanics out of them.

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article ,
"H. P. Friedrichs" wrote:

[...]

I was left to wonder how it
is that, without the benefit of factory training, documentation, or
diagnostic equipment I could troubleshoot and repair the problem when
the dealership could not....

Depends heavily on the tech who looks at it. I was handed a truck a
couple of weeks ago that someone had spent all day trying to
troubleshoot. No cruise control, no Jake brakes. He'd thrashed around
for eight hours, running diagnostics, checking sensors, even popped the
valve covers to check the brake solenoids.
I found the broken clutch pedal return spring in less than a minute.
$12 part, five minutes to install.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net