In article . com,
says...

i have an excused, i dont have a license

Well, hurry up and get one then, silly person!

Quick, now! Run and pick up a copy of the ARRL's "Now You're
Talking!" or I shall have to taunt you again!

Seriously, hamateur radio's a fun hobby, and it gives you an
excuse to learn all kinds of neat things about electronics in general,
and how it applies to radio in particular.

Keep the peace(es).


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

In article ,
says...

Nothing to do with coupling the Tx energy to the "atmosphere". Terminating the
line in a resistor of the line's charactertistic impedance will present a nice
SWR and radiate very little.

I beg to differ, and I would invite you to think further on this
topic.

An antenna is a coupling device. Its purpose is to efficiently
"couple" or radiate your signal into another transmission medium (open
space, including our atmosphere).

The antenna (effectively an inductor) needs to be resonant at your
operating frequency of choice. It seems to me that the density and
composition of the transmission medium you're coupling to has an effect
on any antenna's resonant frequency.

This, to my understanding, means that an antenna designed for use
in open air will not work underwater, nor will, say, a VLF antenna
designed for submarine usage work in open air.

If you believe I'm misunderstanding, then please point me to some
documentation on the subject, and I will cheerfully STFU.

Keep the peace(es).


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

In article ,
says...

"Dr. Anton T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...

If you're serious about decent peformance, stay away from glass
mount antennas for anything other than receive-only. They're worse than
useless for transmitting.

I think you better stick to the paintings. Anecdotal evidence is worse than
no evidence. Just because one manufacturer's antenna was junk doesn't mean

I'm sorry you feel that way.

You know nothing about me, nor my work environment, nor how MANY
undercover cars have had issues with glass mounts.

This didn't just happen on one vehicle. It was on several. And my
own personal experience with glass mounts (yes, I tried using them at
one time myself) was terrible.

The big problem with glass mounts is their lack of a decent ground
plane. They spew RF all over the interior of the vehicle they're being
used on, hence the interference that I and others have experienced.

Perhaps you're the one who had best stick to "painting."


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:13:22 -0800, Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
wrote:

In article ,
says...

"Dr. Anton T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...

If you're serious about decent peformance, stay away from glass
mount antennas for anything other than receive-only. They're worse than
useless for transmitting.

I think you better stick to the paintings. Anecdotal evidence is worse than
no evidence. Just because one manufacturer's antenna was junk doesn't mean

I'm sorry you feel that way.

You know nothing about me, nor my work environment, nor how MANY
undercover cars have had issues with glass mounts.

This didn't just happen on one vehicle. It was on several. And my
own personal experience with glass mounts (yes, I tried using them at
one time myself) was terrible.

The big problem with glass mounts is their lack of a decent ground
plane. They spew RF all over the interior of the vehicle they're being
used on, hence the interference that I and others have experienced.

Perhaps you're the one who had best stick to "painting."

Just curious. Do you recall how much the windows were tinted? I
suspect one of the many reasons for problems is the tinting medium
in/on the glass.

Dr. Anton T. Squeegee wrote:
. . .
An antenna is a coupling device. Its purpose is to efficiently
"couple" or radiate your signal into another transmission medium (open
space, including our atmosphere).

Not really. The power going into the antenna isn't a "signal", but the
power leaving it is. An antenna is a transducer -- it changes power in
the form of electrical voltages and currents into electromagnetic E and
H fields.

The antenna (effectively an inductor) needs to be resonant at your
operating frequency of choice.

That's completely untrue. There's nothing magical about resonance, and a
resonant antenna radiates no better or worse than a non-resonant one.

As for being an inductor, the impedance at the feedpoint of a small loop
antenna is inductive, but an antenna in general certainly aren't
"effectively an inductor".

It seems to me that the density and
composition of the transmission medium you're coupling to has an effect
on any antenna's resonant frequency.

The conductivity, permittivity, and permeability of the medium in the
immediate field of the antenna have a profound effect on the antenna's
resonant frequency. Density in and of itself doesn't.

This, to my understanding, means that an antenna designed for use
in open air will not work underwater, nor will, say, a VLF antenna
designed for submarine usage work in open air.

It certainly won't work the same as it does in the very different medium.

If you believe I'm misunderstanding, then please point me to some
documentation on the subject, and I will cheerfully STFU.

Any basic antenna text will do. Kraus's _Antennas_ is a good starting point.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:08:07 -0800, Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Nothing to do with coupling the Tx energy to the "atmosphere". Terminating the
line in a resistor of the line's charactertistic impedance will present a nice
SWR and radiate very little.

I beg to differ, and I would invite you to think further on this
topic.

An antenna is a coupling device. Its purpose is to efficiently
"couple" or radiate your signal into another transmission medium (open
space, including our atmosphere).

The antenna (effectively an inductor) needs to be resonant at your
operating frequency of choice. It seems to me that the density and
composition of the transmission medium you're coupling to has an effect
on any antenna's resonant frequency.

This, to my understanding, means that an antenna designed for use
in open air will not work underwater, nor will, say, a VLF antenna
designed for submarine usage work in open air.

If you believe I'm misunderstanding, then please point me to some
documentation on the subject, and I will cheerfully STFU.

Pity you snipped your original statement:

"SWR = Standing Wave Ratio. Put simply, it has to do with how good
of a load the antenna presents to the transmitter, and how efficiently
it will couple the transmitter's energy to the atmosphere."

Roy has kindly addressed the antenna aspects. But because you snipped, the
essence of my comment was cut adrift. A nice 50R resistor will not "couple the
transmitter's energy to the atmosphere" at all efficiently, but should certainly
provide a rather good match to your 50 ohm line. You should not attempt to
equate radiation efficiency with line matching.

I suggest you need to think further, or stick to plumbing.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:28:13 -0500, "xpyttl"
wrote:

However, OP has another problem. Nobody has mentioned feedline loss. The
wire carrying the signal to the antenna, even with a good SWR, can be a real
source of loss, especially at 2.4G. Cable which has a low loss at that
frequency is available, but it is expensive and hard to get.

an alternative would be using TVSat 75ohm cable & connectors properly
lenght cut to mirror Z from source 50ohm to antenna (taking care of
cable velocity factor & unpair 1/4 multiple wave lenght proper cut);
this way is cheap ...
--
Seasons Greetings & Regards , SPAJKY ®
mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
more than 3y - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"

In article ,
says...

snippety

Just curious. Do you recall how much the windows were tinted? I
suspect one of the many reasons for problems is the tinting medium
in/on the glass.

Actually, yes, they were. And you're right -- Tinting which has
metallic content is one of the worst offenders.

I can't be certain whether the tint on these specific cars was
metal-bearing. I just know that I've always had problems with glass-
mount antlers, no matter if the window is tinted.

Keep the peace(es).


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

In article ,
says...

snippety

Roy has kindly addressed the antenna aspects. But because you snipped, the
essence of my comment was cut adrift. A nice 50R resistor will not "couple the
transmitter's energy to the atmosphere" at all efficiently, but should certainly
provide a rather good match to your 50 ohm line. You should not attempt to
equate radiation efficiency with line matching.

I suggest you need to think further, or stick to plumbing.

I thank you for your opinion. I would also remind you that there's
no need to be insulting. A simple "I disagree, here's what you might
want to look at" will do.

Consistently telling someone to "stick to" one thing or another is
more likely to get you dropped into a filter file, and subsequently
ignored, than it is to get you listened to.


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:21:12 -0800, Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
wrote:

In article ,
says...

snippety

Just curious. Do you recall how much the windows were tinted? I
suspect one of the many reasons for problems is the tinting medium
in/on the glass.

Actually, yes, they were. And you're right -- Tinting which has
metallic content is one of the worst offenders.

I used an on the glass mount on the rear window of my TA . Part of the
tinting has a metallic content, but was in the form of little circles
or dots. The rest of the window had a dark tint. The antenna worked
fine.

Prior to that I used one on a Thunderbird with no problems although it
did get out better on the TA.

I can't be certain whether the tint on these specific cars was
metal-bearing. I just know that I've always had problems with glass-
mount antlers, no matter if the window is tinted.

They have always worked well for me and generally you can tell by
looking at a tint whether it is metallic or not. They "look metallic"
with a silver tint. I've not seen any of the tan, green, or brown
tints that were metallic.

I ran a TM-D700 and a TM-V7A running 50 watts on 144 to these with no
problems. They didn't seem to mind the higher SWR on 440 and did well
there too.

I currently use a diamond mag mount with a colinear on top of a SUV
and that is a real performer.

73

Roger (K8RI)

Keep the peace(es).
Roger