SB NEWS @ WW $VK1WIA090308
WIANEWS - Mar 08 - VK NATIONAL NEWS

ALWAYS ENSURE ORIGINAL BID # AND TITLE ARE USED.
Packet uploads with thanks to vk7ax Tony
This is WIANEWS for week commencing March 08 2009



Jim Linton VK3PC - President Amateur Radio Victoria


The Council of Amateur Radio Victoria at its meeting last Tuesday passed a
condolence motion in respect to the recent bushfire disaster in Victoria.

The President of that statewide organisation, Jim Linton VK3PC now reads
the motion for today's VK1WIA broadcast.
--
Council extends its deepest sympathies and condolences to those who lost
loved ones in the 7 February Black Saturday bushfires.

Everyone has been affected either directly or indirectly by the fires. We
recognise the enormous loss, hurt and pain being experienced at the moment
and to be felt for many years to come.

Council recognises that this, the most darkest moment in peace-time
history, the tragic events of the bushfires also brought to the fore the
vital work of fire fighters and other emergency service personnel.

Council acknowledges that throughout the community there is clearly
evident humanity, mateship and caring for others. Those on the front-line
of helping, providing aid and comfort. Ordinary citizens and corporations
supplying donations.

Council wishes those involved in the disaster recovery efforts all success
in their endeavours.

Council sincerely hopes that the Royal Commission brings down a report on
which governments act promptly to avoid a repeat of what happened this
summer and mitigate future outbreaks of wildfire.



WIA President - Michael Owen VK3KI


Thanks, Robert

It is now 5 days since the WIA took responsibility for managing amateur callsigns on 2 March.

Since 2 March a searchable list of all available callsigns has been on the WIA website.

We have received quite a few applications for callsign recommendations.
That is what we do. We recommend a callsign to ACMA. We don't issue the
licence. ACMA does that. We don't vary licences. ACMA does that.

But ACMA requires a callsign recommendation from the WIA before it
issues or varies a licence.

So, if you are after a first licence, then you need a callsign
recommendation. Or if you are upgrading, and so want to vary your
licence, or you a moving to another state, or you just want to change
you callsign, you need a callsign recommendation from the WIA.

I guess that is why ACMA hasn't reduced the cost of an amateur licence,
because part of what they collect is tax!

And for the callsign recommendation, as with the exams, the WIA is bound

to charge what it costs it to provide the service.
How is it going?

We have received over 50 applications for a callsign recommendation. And

we will start to send them out next Thursday.
Why wait until then?

An important aspect of the publication of the available callsigns on the

Public List is that no recommendation will be made in respect of a
particular callsign until seven full working days after it was first
published on the list.

That is to give an opportunity for any errors to be rectified before a
callsign is allocated to someone else.

But, as the first publication of every callsign on the list was the 2nd
March, and next Monday is a holiday in Victoria, the seven days ends next Thursday.

Of course, after this first time, only callsigns that are added to the
Public List of available callsigns, because they have been allowed to
lapse or because they have come out of an embargo period will be subject

to the 7 Working day delay!

So, please don't telephone the office to find out what is happening.

The answer is nothing.
Until next Thursday.

But may I remind you that full details of how it all works, including
how to apply for a callsign recommendation in association with a
successful assessment and with the forms that can be downloaded, all is on the WIA website.

You can also find out about certificates of proficiency!




HAMS ACROSS AUSTRALIA.


VK0


VK1
vk1 local news email and ask for subscription.


VK2
web service:- http://www.arnsw.org.au/html/news_vk2wi.htm
VKG Roundup http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news

The 2009 Urunga Radio Convention will be Easter 11th and 12th April,
Saturday and Sunday, with Fox hunts and convention activities on both days,
quizzes, raffles, trade tables available, pre loved gear, etc.

Why not make it a break from your busy lifestyle and slow down a bit at quiet
restful "Urunga" "where the rivers meet the sea" the longest running
"foxhunt convention" in Australia.

The social gathering for the Saturday night dinner at the Bowling Club is
always well attended.

It is held at the Senior Citizens hall Bowra street Urunga.



VK3
web service:- http://www.amateurradio.com.au/news/
VKC Roundup http://www.police


Gippsland Gate Radio & Electronics ClubHamfest 09
18/7/0910.00 am

The G.G.R.E.C. has begun organising its annual Hamfest Sale. As per previous
years it will be held at the Cranbourne Public Hall and they will be looking
for sellers to book their tables from now until the sale. Bookings at this
time can be arranged via


VK4
web service local news:- www.wiaq.com/qnews/upload/qnewsbcast.htm
local news email
VKR Roundup http://www.police.qld.gov.au/News+an...edia+Releases/

Some Regional HF Nets from clubs we seldom hear from include:-

Monday Mackay Club Net - VK4WIM Net Control - 3597kHz 0930Z

Tuesday RADAR Net - VK4WIR Net Control - 3613kHz 0930Z

Wednesday Gold Coast - VK4WIG Net Control - 3605kHz 0930Z

Thursday Henry Fulford Memorial Net - VK4WAT Net Control - 3588kHz 0930Z

Friday Central Highlands VK4WCH Net Control - 3618kHz 1000Z

Saturday Darling Downs VK4WID Net Control - 3587kHz 0930Z

Sunday Dalby and Districts 3585kHz 1000Z


VK5
www.qsl.net/vk5bar/Name : Charles Prime


VK6
web service http://www.vk6.net/newswest-index.html

VK7
local area news :- http://reast.asn.au/news.php
vk7 local news, email

Bargain Boot Bonanza

On March 22nd at the Meet the Voice/Sewing Circle BBQ there will be a bargain
boot bonanza.

This is a great opportunity for you to sell your pre-loved amateur radio
related equipment that is surplus to requirements.

Ray VK7VKV is the coordinator and if you are interested in going along to
the BBQ and selling your pre-loved gear then get in touch with Ray via the
Sewing Circle net on the weekend at 5pm on 3.59MHz.

Participation is covered in your registration fee, the only condition is
that
you provide your own car boot or table on which to display the treasures, and
that you don't begin offering the bargains for sale until 12.00 midday so as
not to detract from the other organised events on the day.

Hams are always looking for a bargain so this is a great opportunity to do a
deal.


( http://reast.asn.au/events.php#meetthevoice Ray VK7VKV)


Meet the Voice and Sewing Circle BBQ

Ross March 22 starting around 10am will see the first VK7 state-wide activity
for 2009.

Don VK7AY has ordered a perfect day of sun and no wind so, SLIP SLOP SLAP is
the order of the day therefore, bring your sun cream, hats, umbrellas, or any
other shade producing device, etc.

Ross now has a reasonable drinking water supply available once again so they
will be in luxurious surroundings.

Registration from 10am, $5.00 cover charge per amateur or amateur family, any
surplus will be towards some amateur Radio activity, no funds held over.

2007 they donated to the upkeep of repeaters, and last year donated over
$200 dollars which was used to assist the payment of licence fees for those
repeaters state wide.

A decision on the day will be made as to where all surplus registrationmonies will go.

How about inviting a amateur senior or otherwise who you think would enjoy
the outing and meeting with old and new friends to join you on the daya spare seat.


( http://reast.asn.au/events.php#meetthevoice Don, VK7AY)


VK8


VK9

------



EDUCATION YOUTH AND ADVANCEMENT OF AMATEUR RADIO
Make your wife happy

How can you do that I hear you all ask.

Well it is easy - how about tidy up that shack and put out that stuff that
you have not used - yep it was stacked in the corner on the shelf and has
built up a layer of dust so thick you can't even read the writing on the box
anymore. In all seriousness nothing would make her happier than for you to
clean out that room. To help you The Hills Amateur Radio Group here in WA
is having a Car Boot Sale....
All Radio Hams, Short Wave Listeners & Radio Hobbyists are most welcome.
When: Saturday, 14th March 2009
Whe Paxhill Girl Guide Hall, on the corner of Sanderson & Brady Streets Lesmurdie WA.
Sellers admitted from 1pm at $5 per table/boot to book a table contact Mick VK6YXL
on email address:
Visitors from 2pm should bring a $2 entry fee.
Dont miss a great afternoon

WHATS ON OFFER AT HAM COLLEGE THIS MONTH
If you want to attend the next Ham College Foundation course scheduled for
the 21st & 22nd of March or you want to attend the next open exam day scheduled
for Saturday the 28th of March please contact Ham College by selecting
the "contact Ham College"
menu button from the Ham college website which is www.hamcollege.com.au
or you can ring me (Kylea)on 0412 704 226.



Radio and Electronics Association of Southern Tasmania leaders in
Education and Training.

Reg VK7KK lets us know that successful in the recent assessmentwe-

Corey Clark and Robert Wise both gaining their Foundation Licences.

Gary Wilmott, Tony Clifford currently VK7FACC and Ron Petersen who is
currently VK7FEAA gain their standard licences.

Congratulation to all and we look forward to hearing you all on air
here in the West with your new callsigns.

If you would like to participate in a future training and/or
assessment and the assessment could be for any licence (foundation,standard, advanced or
practical) then let Reg VK7KK know ASAP on mobile: 0417 391 607

(Reg, VK7KK, REAST Education Officer and Assessor)



Join a different kind of amateur radio competition

There is no doubt that our time-honoured hobby is going through
turbulent times with the intake of new hams decreasing in many
countries. The overall Amateur Radio population has diminisheddramatically.

As an independent body, the group at Radio Arcala, OH8X is poised to
try some new methods to attract young people congregating in many
non-traditional hangouts such as Virtual World on the internet.

The Arcala radio station is the first-ever amateur radio station to
be active in Virtual Reality. Millions of computer-minded youngsters
gather there daily in an easy-going leisure mood.

The overall Radio Arcala strategy is spelled out on the OH8X Webpages.

See http://www.radioarcala.com
(Jarmo OH2BN)



--------------------



INTERNATIONAL NEWS With thanks to RSGB, Southgate AR Club, the ARRL,
Amateur Radio Newsline, NZART and the WW sources of the WIA. I'm VK5MM Rob.



DRAFT REGULATIONS PUBLISHED TO SAFEGUARD THE SKA AREA

The draft regulations to create radio-free areas in South Africa for the
Square Kilometre Array have been published. Study them and give your comments
before 4 March. The SARL has to submit comments before 6 March and after all
the input has been considered the final regulations will be published and
become enforceable.

The regulations are available on the ARMI page at www.sarl.org.za
(SARL)


The 2009 International DX Convention in California Will be held April 17th
to 19th and is the 60th Anniversary of this event, which promises to be even
more special this year than it has ever been in previous years.

Special Attractions this year Include:

* Contest Academy by the Northern California Contest Club

* Radio Arcala Project with OH2BH & OH8NC

* Breakfast Program: Desecheo, KP5 DX-Pedition - K5D


For Complete Program Information, check out:
www.dxconvention.org



================================================== ========================NEWS FROM SOUTHGATE

Mellish Reef DXpedition

Operators George AA7JV and Tomi HA7RY will be active as VK9GMW in what they
call 'another low-key, simple DXpedition', from Mellish Reef between
March 22nd and April 6th.

Please note that the dates are approximate and may change due to weather.

The operation will have a strong low-band focus, although VK9WMW will operate
on all HF bands.

QSL will be via HA7RY, by the Bureau or LoTW or direct to:
Tamas Pekarik, Alagi ut 15, H-2151 Fot, HUNGARY.

After VK9GMW has gone QRT, they will launch an "Online QSL Request Service"
(OQRS) on their Web site. If you want to receive your QSL via the Bureau,
please use that form to request the card. They will check your QSOs against
the log and send your card to you via the Bureau. This method will allow
them
faster processing, helps them protect the environment, and you will receive
your VK9GMW card faster.

For more information, please visit the VK9GMW Web page at:www.vk9gmw.com

(read by Southgate Amateur Radio Club's Richard G4TUT)



================================================== ========================RSGB NEWS FROM G4NJH




================================================== ========================NEWS FROM ARNEWSLINE


WINTER HAVEN FLORIDA PIRATE OPERATOR ARRESTED

Deputies in Polk County Florida along with the FCC and the Winter Haven
Police have arrested Anthony Davis for unlicensed broadcasting. This,
after searching his Winter Haven home.

Detectives say that they found audio mixers, microphones, and other station
equipment at his residence. Also found was a 100 watt transmitter that
they say Davis was using to broadcast reggae music station on 87.9 FM.

Davis called his station format "One Love Radio". He has been charged
with unlawful transmission on a radio frequency which is a third degree
felony under Florida state law. The raid on Davis home was the result of
complaints from a local Orlando TV station.


IARU ELECTS NEW PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT

Some names in the news. First is Timothy S. Ellam, who holds the calls
VE6SH and G4HUA and who is the new President of the International Amateur
Radio Union. Ellam replaces former ARRL president Larry Price, W4RA, who
has served as IARU President since 1998 and has decided to retire at the
end of his current term in May.

Ellam is a long time Canadian radio amateur. He lives in Calgary, Alberta,
and until now has served as Vice President of the IARU.

Elected as the new IARU Vice President is Ole Garpestad, LA2RR. Garpestad,
a resident of Oslo, Norway. He is presently President of the IARU Region
1. Both men will serve a five year term beginning on May 9th.



CANCER RESEARCHER JOHN KANZIUS, K3TUP - SK.

I'm Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF, with the sad news that a ham who used his
knowledge of RF garnered through amateur radio to develop a possible cure
for cancer has died due to complications associated with the disease. John
Kanzius, K3TUP, passed away on Wednesday morning, February 18th in a
Florida hospital from pneumonia while undergoing chemotherapy for b-cell
leukaemia. While he had no formal medical training K3TUP was described by
Discover magazine as one of the world's 50 most promising scientists. His
family has been quoted as saying that his research in curing cancer will
continue. John Kanzius was only age 64.


DIGI COMM ALGORITHM MAY PREVENT DRUG INTERACTIONS

Math used in radio propagation may also help those taking multiple
medications to, avoid drug interaction. David Black, KB4KCH, is in our
Southeast Bureau with mo

Researchers at the Burnham Institute for Medical Research have shown that
search algorithms used in digital communications can help scientists
identify effective multi-drug combinations.

Using what's known as the stack sequential algorithm that was developed for
digital communications, a team of scientists searched for optimal drug
combinations. This algorithm can integrate information from different
sources, including biological measurements and model simulations.

This differs from the classic systems biology approach by having search
algorithms rather than explicit quantitative models as the central
element. The variability of biological systems is the fundamental
motivation for this strategy.

The study, led by Giovanni Paternostro and was published in the December
26, 2008, issue of P Computational Biology magazine.

This work was funded by the Ellison Medical Foundation, National Institutes
of Health and the National Science Foundation.

The number of lives that can be saved by the results of this study could be
into the thousands each year.


================================================== =======================

WEIRD N WONDERFUL




interesting device that used to be only found in a popular sci-fi series.

Any Trekkies out there remember the tricorder? Dr. McCoy and Mr. Spock both
carried them, and they came in mighty handy exploring "strange new worlds
....where no one has gone before."

On the International Space Station, astronauts are carrying an experimental
device that looks strikingly similar the LOCAD-PTS, short for Lab-On-a-Chip
Application Development Portable Test System.

This handheld biological lab is the first step along the path to developing
something akin to Dr. McCoy's medical tricorder.

"LOCAD is like that tricorder in that it is portable, rapid, and detects a
biochemical molecule," says Heather Morris, LOCAD scientist from NASA's
Marshall Space Flight Centre.

LOCAD is specifically designed to detect and identify microbes on space
station surfaces. An ISS crewmember uses a dry swab to take samples of
surfaces where microbes might be lurking. Flushing sterile water through the
swab converts the sample to liquid form, and the astronaut puts a few drops
into the LOCAD. What's in the sample? The system gives its answer less than
15 minutes later. The whole easy procedure is done on location.

"LOCAD can't yet distinguish between live and dead bacteria." So no one can
cry out, it's dead, Jim! "We're working to add this capability in the future
says Morris.

Dr. McCoy, here we come.





OPERATIONAL NEWS -



SPECIAL EVENTS AND ON AIR CONTEST COLUMN - D A T E L I N E 2009



MAR 7 - 8 ARRL Int DX PHONE CONTEST
MAR 14 - 15 JOHN MOYLE FIELD DAYMAR 14 - 15 BERU
MAR 28 - 29 WPX SSB (Worked All Prefixes)

MAY 01 - 08 VK CQ REPEATER CONTEST (Westlakes Club)

JUN 6 - 8 WORKED ALL VK SHIRES LONG WEEKEND CONTEST
JUN 20 - 21 MUSEUMS WEEKEND PART a
JUN 27 - 28 MUSEUMS WEEKEND PART b

AUG 15 - 16 WIA Remembrance Day Contest

Running till Dec 31 2009 is the 4th CQ DX Marathon


JOHN MOYLE FIELD DAY

A gentle reminder that the John Moyle Field Day cONTEST mANAGER

This year the closing dates for logs will the 17th April. So don't get
caught out on this one. Late submission of logs is not allowed.



MARCH 8 NEWS CONTINUES WITH WHY A JOHN MOYLE

With less than a week to go, reports are coming in of the preparation of the
many radio clubs and individuals who are honing their skills and testing
their station equipment, ready for the John Moyle Field Day. This contest
was initiated to help in the preparedness for civil defence support.
Remember the term, civil defence? Well those of us that were around in the
50's still do but these days most of us tend to think in terms of emergency
communications systems, familiarly known as "emcomms". The WICEN logo is
well
recognised by all amateurs these days and part of the WICEN ethic is to get
out in the field and down and dirty in preparedness for emergency events.

For the average amateur, the annual John Moyle, is another way of checking
preparedness for getting a station on air should an emergency occur. Being
able to pull together the bits and pieces to activate a station under adverse
conditions and not just use our comfy shack is a bit of preparedness that we
can all benefit by. Not every amateur can make the commitment to join WICEN
but most of us can prepare by joining in an event such as this. Self training
remains part of the definition of amateur radio around the world.

Sadly the tragic events in Victoria have called on the resources of the
amateur community in a number of support roles. The knowledge of basic
traffic handling procedures coupled with the skills we gain from obtaining
our tickets and enjoying the hobby can and does make each ham an important
part of a wider support network in times of emergency.

To put this in a global perspective, the theme for this year's World Amateur
Radio Day, April 18 is "Your Resource in Disaster and Emergency
Communication". Fuller details of this event and the importance of the 2009
theme is available on the WIA News and Event web page.

On that note, GCEG looks forward to making contact with you during the John
Moyle Field Day.

(voiced by Geoff Emery vk4zpp)






CONTEST STORIES


More stations for the Commonwealth Contest

India (VU) have announced that they will be entering a team in this year's
Commonwealth Contest. This means that there will be nine Indian stations and
one from Sri Lanka entering this year. The contest runs from 10.00 UTC 14 to
10.00 UTC 15th March.




BEACON DX AND NET ADVICE
hf nets ON the net, www.timroberts-vk4yeh.id.au/

GB 40 WAB 40th anniversary of the WAB Till Dec 31

HA 130 HALLO Hungary 130 yrs of Telephone Until March 31

International Museums Weekend(s) 20 and 21 plus 27 and June 28


OZ 1658 ROS 350th anniversary of the Treaty of Roskilde Till Dec 31

VARIOUS SM STATIONS USING 1658 (Treaty of Roskilde) Till Dec 31


VP 9 400 /home call 400th Anniversary of Bermuda Till Dec 31



INTRUDER WATCH - ENFORCEMENT ZONE

Region III IARUMS Coordinator B.L.Manohar (Arasu) VU2UR


IARU Monitoring System International Coordinator:-
Robert E. Knowles, ZL1BAD.

Len Martinson, ZL1BYA, is Monitoring Service co-ordinator for the

VK National Coordinator = Karl Hennig VK6XW

VK IARUMS reflector email to subscribe

VK Coordinators for I.A.R.U.M.S.
VK3TZE Jimmy 5EV John
VK7BBW Paul

IARUMS NETS
Friday 0730 UTC 7.065.5 with VK4CEU David.


Amateur exclusive frequencies where any non-amateur signal is definitely an
intruder.

Exclusive amateur only spectrum world wide7.050 to 7.100
14.000 to 14.250
14.250 to 14.350 No broadcasters21.000 to 21.450
24.890 to 24.99028.000 to 29.700






WW SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS --- APRS


WW SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS --- ARDF
WIA ARDF COORDINATOR VK3WWW Jack
http://users.mackay.net.au/~ron/
http://www.homingin.com
http://www.ardf.org.au

USA ARDF Championships June 5-7:

Radio-orienteers of all skill levels will gather for two days of intense
competition, first on two meters and then on 80 meters. The events are open
to all persons, with or without a ham license. This year's USA Championships
are being combined with the championships of International Amateur Radio
Union Region 2 (North and South America).

Visitors from any country are welcome.

Organizing and hosting the 2009 championships is Vadim Afonkin KB1RLI.

Site of the contests will be the Blue Hills Reservation, a 7000-acre open
space that is about ten miles south of downtown Boston.

Effective immediately, the Reservation area is off limits for anyone who
will
be competing in the 2009 USA ARDF Championships.

To avoid any unfair advantage, potential competitors may not go to this site
until competition time.

To encourage first-timers and foreign visitors, the competition fee will be
waived for persons who have never participated in the USA ARDF Championships
and for persons coming from outside North America.

The championships Web site is www.bostonardf.org


WW SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS --- INTERNET --- THE HAMS DOMAIN


Internet site captured radio traffic in plane crash

CAROLYN THOMPSON of the Associated Press recently penned a story on how
a network of amateur radio and aviation enthusiasts aired far sooner than
any federal agency would typically release a recording or transcript
relating to an air disaster filed recordings to the internet of the final
transmissions of a plane crash.

The recordings show there was no mayday call.

They capture other nearby pilots discussing ice on their wings.

They are telling and, in hindsight, touching.

The site, www.LiveATC.net, is the creation of Dave Pascoe, a Boston-area
Internet site executive, radio enthusiast and pilot who's melded his hobbies
into a worldwide network that allows visitors to listen in on pilot-tower
transmissions live or after-the-fact.





WW SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS --- RADIO AMATEUR OLD-TIMERS
http://www.raotc.org.au
OLD TIMERS
Members and friends of the Radio Amateurs Old Timers Club Australia are
reminded that the next news and information broadcast will take place on the
first Monday of the Month.

using the RAOTC callsign of VK3OTN.

10.00 am Victorian time on 7.060 and 3.650 MHz plus 1.843 MHz AM, and145.700.

On 14.150 MHz at 01.00 UTC beaming north and 02:00 UTC west from Melbourne

For those not yet retired, 8.30 PM Victorian time tune 80 mtrs 3.650 MHz



WW SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS --- RADIO AMATEUR YOUNG TIMERS
A Youth Net meets Saturdays at 0100 UTC on IRLP Reflector #2.
Young Hams Net 3.590 - 7:30pm Victorian time.


SOCIAL SCENE



2009

International Telecommunication Union's Telecom World 2009.


March 14 vk6
Hills Amateur Radio group swap meet Lesmurdie, 2pm for buyers.
March 22 vk3
EMDRC Annual White Elephant Sale, 10am-4pm.Great Ryrie School, Heathmont.
March 22 vk7
MEET THE VOICE SEWING CIRCLE BBQ Held at Ross in Tasmania



April 4-5 vk4
Bunya Mts & District Amcom weekend get together at Somerset Dam
Details Contact Neil VK4NF 07 4662 4950 Email
April 11-12 vk2
Urunga Radio Convention held at the Senior Citizens hall Bowra street Urunga.
April 18 WW
World Amateur Radio Day
April 19 vk2
Westlake clubs Mini Field Day.



June 5 - 8 VK4
FNNQARG at Cardwell Village Beachcomber Resort book on 1800 005633
Contact FNNQARG co-ordinator Gavin VK4ZZ for site booking guidance.

June 6-7
South East Radio Group Convention
Margret Street Scout Hall in Mount Gambier behind the Police Station.



July 11 - 12 VK3
GippsTech 2009, the technical conference with a VHF, UHF & microwave focus.

July 18 VK3
Gippsland Gate Radio & Electronics Club Hamfest 10.00 am
Cranbourne Public Hall



August 2 vk6
Northern Corridor Radio Group's WA Hamfest. Cyril Jackson Rec Centre
Fisher st Ashfield, WA email



SEP 13
Adelaide Hills Amateur Radio Society Hamfest 9:30am.
Goodwood Community Centre, Rosa St Goodwood.



OCT 12 - 16 ZL
14th IARU R3 Conference Christchurch 12 ? 16 October 2009.
Details at www.christchurch.org.nz/
The Region 3 Web Site: www.jarl.or.jp/iaru-r3/

-- ends --