As the time of year approaches to begin thinking about hurricanes and
disaster communications, I'm going to upgrade my 2-meter rig with one
that is capable of crossband repeat. I would like for this same radio
to double as my in-shack equipment during normal times.

I'm looking for something with enough power to handle marginal
conditions, rugged and able to handle high temperatures and long duty
cycles, and reasonably easy to operate in the field. (I don't mind
needing a computer and software to set up lots of memories, but I need
to be able to program in an unknown repeater in the field when the
computer isn't available.) Naturally the vendors assure me that all
their new gear can do this, but somehow I'd rather hear it from people
who have actually done it in the heat of battle.

73, Steve KB9X

Steve Bonine wrote:
As the time of year approaches to begin thinking about hurricanes and
disaster communications, I'm going to upgrade my 2-meter rig with one
that is capable of crossband repeat. I would like for this same radio
to double as my in-shack equipment during normal times.

I'm looking for something with enough power to handle marginal
conditions, rugged and able to handle high temperatures and long duty
cycles, and reasonably easy to operate in the field. (I don't mind
needing a computer and software to set up lots of memories, but I need
to be able to program in an unknown repeater in the field when the
computer isn't available.) Naturally the vendors assure me that all
their new gear can do this, but somehow I'd rather hear it from people
who have actually done it in the heat of battle.

73, Steve KB9X

Steve,

It's always a good idea to have a rig with good capabilities, and any of
the commercial units that advertise cross-band repeat will fill that need.

I feel compelled, however, to sound a note of caution: I've been
involved with disaster preparedness for many years, and was even on the
Boston Esplanade helping to manage the medical responses and lost
children during the July 4, 1976 Pops concert that drew the largest
crowd ever recorded in Boston's history.

The long and short of it is that _WE_ are the most important asset in an
emergency and that _WE_ are most in need of preparation. If we're going
to represent ourselves as being ready to help during times of crisis,
then the practical knowledge and preparedness we bring with us will
outweigh any single radio.

A cross-band repeater might, or might not, be the "Deus ex machina" that
solves all your team's problems - but don't count on it, because
technology is the least important weapon in a ham's arsenal when the
chips are down. I once owned a fancy and delicate radio that I hesitated
to take out in the rain or loan to another ham: now, I have three basic
HT's and I invest in myself and my capabilities instead.

Having regular exercise, which is free, has better prepared me for an
emergency than any amount of money could have. Knowing the capabilities,
limitations, and advantages of RG-8 has made it possible to connect
thirty-year-old ground planes cut for 46 MHz to two-meter radios and
have them in service in minutes instead of hours. Participating in
regular drills, although inconvenient, has been twice as valuable as any
piece of hardware could have been when I was tired, hungry, irritated,
wet, and constipated.

The most important asset we can bring to any deployment, no matter what
the situation or the location, is _adaptability_. Although having good
technology is helpful, having good practice and common sense and a "can
do" attitude will always get you through when technology lets you down.

HTH. YMMV.

73, Bill W1AC

P.S. Whatever you do, don't forget extra batteries, duct tape, and
toilet paper. You can use the bag the duct tape came in to wrap the
toilet paper, and trust me on this - wet duct tape is a lot easier to
use than wet toilet paper. ;-)

(Remove "73" and change the top level domain for direct replies)

Jon Kåre Hellan wrote:
"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Mike Mc" wrote ...
Steve Bonine wrote:
The sure-fire method I use is to use a dual-band HT and go over to the
2-meter input side and ID once every ten minutes. Thus all frequencies
are covered for ID.
Doesn't an ID originating on the 70-cm link end up being
transmitted on *both* frequencies? Am I missing something?

I thought the point of cross-band repeat was that input and output
frequencies are so far apart that you don't need cavity filters.
Which is why you can do it in a simple transceiver. If true, what you
send to it on one band only gets transmitted on the other
band. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are not wrong. But assume that the crossband repeater is just
sitting there listening on 2 meters and re-transmitting what it hears on
70 cm. The owner is just listening, not transmitting. But the
crossband repeater (the mobile rig) IS transmitting on 70 cm because
it's functioning as a repeater; what it hears on 2 meters it transmits
on 70 cm.

Where's the id for the 70 cm transmission?

The person who is transmitting on 2 meters is id'ing those
transmissions, but that id does not apply to the 70 cm RF from the
crossband rig.

I see a way around this for the scenario I originally mentioned, but I
do not know if the crossband rigs can be configured this way. In that
scenario, there is a person using an HT who can hear the 2-meter
repeater but cannot get into it with the HT. In this case, the 70 cm
transmissions from the crossband repeat rig are not needed; the HT user
can simply listen to the 2-meter repeater. What is needed is the repeat
from 70 cm to 2 meters. In other words, the HT user listens on 2 meters
and transmits on 70 cm; the crossband rig is just there to listen on 70
cm and retransmit that signal on 2 meters. I guess you could say
simplex instead of duplex.

Maybe this is a common way of using crossband repeat?

73, Steve KB9X

"Mike Mc" wrote ...
Doesn't an ID originating on the 70-cm link end up being
transmitted on *both* frequencies? Am I missing something?

Not on the 70-cm side coming OUT of the mobile radio. That's why you
come in on the 2 meter input.

No matter which way you slice it, when you give an ID
it goes out on BOTH bands concurrently. Still don't see
that there is even any issue here?

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Mike Mc" wrote ...
Doesn't an ID originating on the 70-cm link end up being
transmitted on *both* frequencies? Am I missing something?

Not on the 70-cm side coming OUT of the mobile radio. That's why you
come in on the 2 meter input.

No matter which way you slice it, when you give an ID
it goes out on BOTH bands concurrently. Still don't see
that there is even any issue here?

OK, I will try this one more time.

KB9X is running a crossband repeat. It is listening on two meters, and
retransmitting everything it hears on 70 cm. KB9X is not a part of any
QSO. He is not giving any id. He might, in fact, be asleep.

W9ABC is transmitting on two meters. KB9X's crossband rig hears W9ABC
and retransmits that signal on 70 cm.

Where is the id for the 70 cm signal? It needs to be id'ed with a call
of KB9X (because it is KB9X's transmitter that is creating it) but KB9X
is asleep.

73, KB9X

On Feb 25, 4:05�pm, Steve Bonine wrote:
Dick Grady AC7EL wrote:
There is one legal problem with using a dual-band rig as a crossband repeater.
Both the 2-meter and 70-cm sides are ham transmitters, and must be ID'd every 10
minutes and at the end of every series of transmissions, just like every other
station and repeater.

This is an interesting point, and one that I had not considered. *I
thought about ID, but not on the UHF output of the crossbanding unit.

I don't remember seeing any available gear that supports an automated id
for this transmitter, but then again I wasn't looking for it
specifically. *Anyone know of a rig that can do the id?

In the past I've seen portable, itinerant repeaters ID's by the
USERS....ie: "This K4YZ via K4YZ repeater"....There's no law that
says the ID HAS to come from the repeater itself as long as it's
clearly IDed...If you're only going to be doing this under short term,
"emergency" situations, it's completely legal and will save you having
to mod a rig..

Some of the Yaesu rigs that I have DO have a "CW IDer" in them,
however...Tour the owner's manual.

73

Steve, K4YZ

wrote:

In the past I've seen portable, itinerant repeaters ID's by the
USERS....ie: "This K4YZ via K4YZ repeater"....There's no law that
says the ID HAS to come from the repeater itself as long as it's
clearly IDed...If you're only going to be doing this under short term,
"emergency" situations, it's completely legal and will save you having
to mod a rig..

You hit the head on the nail with the emergency comment Steve. A
crossband repeater isn't a good idea for continuous use. So your method
is appropriate for the appropriate use of that type of repeater.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

"Steve Bonine" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Mike Mc" wrote ...
Doesn't an ID originating on the 70-cm link end up being
transmitted on *both* frequencies? Am I missing something?

Not on the 70-cm side coming OUT of the mobile radio. That's why you
come in on the 2 meter input.

No matter which way you slice it, when you give an ID
it goes out on BOTH bands concurrently. Still don't see
that there is even any issue here?

OK, I will try this one more time.

KB9X is running a crossband repeat. It is listening on two meters, and
retransmitting everything it hears on 70 cm. KB9X is not a part of any
QSO. He is not giving any id. He might, in fact, be asleep.

W9ABC is transmitting on two meters. KB9X's crossband rig hears W9ABC and
retransmits that signal on 70 cm.

Where is the id for the 70 cm signal? It needs to be id'ed with a call of
KB9X (because it is KB9X's transmitter that is creating it) but KB9X is
asleep.

Bzzzzt! Of course. I was only thinking about the HT transmit
direction and not remote receiving and relaying. Thanks.