On Jan 25, 3:44�pm, Bill Horne wrote:
My wife and I looked at over 100 houses before
we selected the one I
live in now. I have *no* HOA, *no* CC&R's,
and *no* problem putting up
antennas: I had to fire three agents who hadn't
heard me when I told
them what *my* requirements were.

Thanks for proving the point, Bill.

Having to look at 100 houses after telling an agent what you want means
something's really wrong somewhere.

Having to fire three agents after telling them what you want means
something's really wrong somewhere.

I don't think the problem was that you were excessively choosy; I think
the problem was a lack of suitable houses, so the agents showed you
"almost good enough" houses.

You had the resources and patience to go through all that. Many folks
don't. If you spent just 1 hour per house on research, that's over
2-1/2 weeks work before the actual job of buying and moving begins.

Michael is right: the agent represents the *SELLER*,
not the buyer. He
is legally obligated to disclose _some_ things, but professionally
obligated not to disclose anything else that might lower the house's
value. Agents are not your friends.

I disagree; they can be. But the main point is that the agent, whether
a buyer's agent or a seller's agent, doesn't make any money until a
sale happens.

I think all this is having a negative impact on amateur radio.
Here'swhy:

1) Lots of people who live in restricted homes never pursue an interest
in amateur radio because they don't want the antenna hassle. Not every
restricted home has a suitable attic or yard where an antenna can be
hidden. Many restrictions are such that flagpoles, birdhouses, awnings
and other things are prohibited too. Plus Gladys Kravitz type neighbors
who look for *any* infractions (it only takesone).

The effect is particularly strong on young people, who can't just move
and whose resources are usually less.

2) Lots of hams who live in restricted homes are much less active
amateurs than they would be if they didn't have the hassle.

3) Certain areas become "no-hams" zones, because more and more hams
steer clear of them.

4) The publicity and visibility of amateur radio decrease over time,
because nobody sees antennas, and hams operating stealth don't
talkabout it.

How many of us first discovered amateur radio, or found our first
Elmer, by seeing his/her antenna(s)?

For decades the trend in amateur radio has been to make the licenses
easier to get, the equipment less expensive, more reliable and higher
performing, and the choices of activities greater. But at the same
time, there's been a slow but steady trend to make more and more homes
ham-radio-unfriendly. That's not a good thing.

I'm not sure how to meet the challenge head-on; we don't have the
resources of the satellite-dish folks.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
I don't think the problem was that you were excessively choosy;

You had the resources and patience to go through all that.

When I decided to move out of the Los Angeles area, My wife and I
spent almost 6 months looking for property online. We had a basic
set of "conditions" to meet (as it were).

I fly out here in June last year to look at the properties and
when I got home told my wife, "I think I just bought the farm."

How many of us first discovered amateur radio, or found our first
Elmer, by seeing his/her antenna(s)?

Slight topic drift, but in my case it was because my dad worked
for North American Aviation. He took me to the employee recreation
park and I wandered into the Amateur Radio Club station. W6UUI.
End of story, I was "ruined".

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi


--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.â€
�
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954

http://www.stay-connect.com

"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I don't think the problem was that you were excessively choosy;

You had the resources and patience to go through all that.

When I decided to move out of the Los Angeles area, My wife and I
spent almost 6 months looking for property online. We had a basic
set of "conditions" to meet (as it were).

I fly out here in June last year to look at the properties and
when I got home told my wife, "I think I just bought the farm."

How many of us first discovered amateur radio, or found our first
Elmer, by seeing his/her antenna(s)?

Slight topic drift, but in my case it was because my dad worked
for North American Aviation. He took me to the employee recreation
park and I wandered into the Amateur Radio Club station. W6UUI.
End of story, I was "ruined".

---------------
Hey Jeff: I thought it was when you stuck the all-metal table knife into
the live electrical outlet as a child that did it.

On 1/28/2010 8:43 AM, D. Stussy wrote:

Hey Jeff: I thought it was when you stuck the all-metal table knife into
the live electrical outlet as a child that did it.

That's nothing special: we *ALL* did *THAT*. ;-)

Bill "Curly" Horne, W1AC

"Bill Horne" wrote in message
...
On 1/28/2010 8:43 AM, D. Stussy wrote:

Hey Jeff: I thought it was when you stuck the all-metal table knife
into
the live electrical outlet as a child that did it.

That's nothing special: we *ALL* did *THAT*. ;-)

Yes, but Jeff held on. Anyone use a hairpin - with each prong in a
separate hole?

On Jan 27, 8:29 am, wrote:

Having to look at 100 houses after telling an agent what you want means
something's really wrong somewhere.

Having to fire three agents after telling them what you want means
something's really wrong somewhere.

Yes, there is, but it's what we have to work with. All the agents I
worked with were of the big picture on the billboard type. It would
veer way OT, but my XYL who works in the flooring industry and has
regular contact with contractors and RE agent, could tell you stories
that would make you hair stand on end. The closest comparison I can
make is that there is a strong "carny vs rube" relationship going on.
And they are the carney.


You had the resources and patience to go through all that. Many folks
don't. If you spent just 1 hour per house on research, that's over
2-1/2 weeks work before the actual job of buying and moving begins.

Thanks for proving my point, Jim. I spent a lot of time researching my
house. When a house reached "serious status", I took measurements, I
talked to the neighbors, I had my lawyer go to the courthouse to check
over the deed - in addition to the completely worthless deed insurance
they make you buy. And he found an issue that we made the owners pay
for. But the point is there is a choice, and if a person lacks the
patience to find out what they are buying into, then I don't know how
to advise them.

There's the old saying about buy in haste and repent at leisure.


1) Lots of people who live in restricted homes never pursue an interest
in amateur radio because they don't want the antenna hassle. Not every
restricted home has a suitable attic or yard where an antenna can be
hidden. Many restrictions are such that flagpoles, birdhouses, awnings
and other things are prohibited too. Plus Gladys Kravitz type neighbors
who look for *any* infractions (it only takesone).

hehe, I was wondering when Gladys would come up... 8^)

But you brought us back to Ham radio specifically, so that's great.

I agree wholeheartedly. Old Mr Bloom from up the road was my
introduction to two way radio. He had a tower with one of those triple
vertical dipoles on it that you could switch the pattern on - I forget
what they are called. But a friend and I knocked on his door, and
politely asked if we could see his radios. He told us to have our
parents call him to make sure it was okay, and then we stopped by
again to see his shack. Pure magic! Lights and glowing meters and that
electronic smell of tubes that whenever I smell tube equipment these
days it takes me right back.

Otherwise I agree with all those points.


For decades the trend in amateur radio has been to make the licenses
easier to get, the equipment less expensive, more reliable and higher
performing, and the choices of activities greater. But at the same
time, there's been a slow but steady trend to make more and more homes
ham-radio-unfriendly. That's not a good thing.

I'm not sure how to meet the challenge head-on; we don't have the
resources of the satellite-dish folks.

For as much charm as our introduction to Ham radio was, it is going to
be different today.

If we decide that we need to get young people interested in Ham radio,
it will have to be in a manner in which they are used to.

I had an idea about making a 2 meter HT that had texting ability, as
well as voice. The texting mode would be PSK-31. Note that PSK31
actually does work with FM - it isn't as useful as the SSB version,
but it still works. A kid with a Technician license and his/her
friends of like qualifications would use these things similarly to
cell phones, but it would be their own channels. After starting, the
more adventurous might look into repeater construction. Regular Ham
type stuff. Eventually they would likely gravitate to HF if they found
that interesting.

It would certainly be a different paradigm than what most people who
became Hams when very young went through. But we don't have novice
class any more, and have to come up with something else.

Some Hams I have pitched this to have been vehemently oppose to the
idea.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

"Michael J. Coslo" wrote

I had an idea about making a 2 meter HT that had texting ability, as
well as voice. The texting mode would be PSK-31. Note that PSK31
actually does work with FM - it isn't as useful as the SSB version,
but it still works. A kid with a Technician license and his/her
friends of like qualifications would use these things similarly to
cell phones, but it would be their own channels.

--------------

The beauty of that is that if the kids are close enough to work simplex, all
that may be required for an antenna is a small indoor one, and certainly a
5w HT isn't powerful enough to get into a neighbor's electronics. I once had
a Ringo AR-2 hanging from a hook in my apartment ceiling.

Howard N7SO

Michael J. Coslo wrote:

You had the resources and patience to go through all that. Many folks
don't. If you spent just 1 hour per house on research, that's over
2-1/2 weeks work before the actual job of buying and moving begins.

Thanks for proving my point, Jim. I spent a lot of time researching my
house. When a house reached "serious status", I took measurements, I
talked to the neighbors, I had my lawyer go to the courthouse to check
over the deed - in addition to the completely worthless deed insurance
they make you buy. And he found an issue that we made the owners pay
for. But the point is there is a choice, and if a person lacks the
patience to find out what they are buying into, then I don't know how
to advise them.

In some states, CCRs can be really hidden. For example a builder may buy a
portion of land already subject to restrictions. Doing a normal title
search usually won't find the restriction, since the builder will seem to be
the first to put Conditions, Covenants and Restrictions on that particular
piece of land. Incidentally a careful shopper also has to watch out for
easements.

I also have to note once again that not every potential home buyer even
considers CCRs or understands that a restriction on let's say additional
structures might bar a tower even if said tower is attached to the
residence. One other problem is numerous municipalities try to ban antennas
and fighting that ban can be expensive.

Finally let me note that in some states, a ham who loses a legal fight
against a Covenant can not only end up liable for his or her legal costs but
those of the party who (i.e. the neighbor or HOA) who brought the suit.

There's the old saying about buy in haste and repent at leisure.

I suspect most folks are more concerned about location, price and size than
antennas, that's true even for most hams I suppose. I don't know how much
haste is involved, but focus tends to shorten in such circumstances.

wrote:

I don't think the problem was that you were excessively choosy; I think
the problem was a lack of suitable houses, so the agents showed you
"almost good enough" houses.

You go to a real estate agent. You give them your wish list. They do
the best that they can to meet it. The chances of them finding a house
that meets 100% of your requirements is nil if your wish list is
comprehensive.

House buying is a tradeoff. The items on your wish list related to ham
radio are no different than anything else. It's as silly to tell a real
estate agent that you absolutely must have three bedrooms as it is to
tell them that you absolutely must not have a CCR.

Maybe the house for you actually has four bedrooms. Maybe the house for
you actually has a CCR but it's something that you can live with. Those
are YOUR decisions. If you never see the potential properties, you
won't have the opportunity to make the decision.

The key is to find a real estate agent who understands what you're
looking for and is able to show you a reasonable number of homes; not
everything that might conceivably meet your need, but not rule out
something arbitrarily because it is 2002 square feet and your max was 2000.

Yes, CCRs are a real issue for ham radio today. But condemning them as
inherently evil isn't going to accomplish anything because it's only a
tiny minority of the population that wants to erect a tower in their
back yard. Most everyone thinks CCRs are good and in that environment
they're not going away. Best to understand how to work within the system.

On Jan 27, 12:45�pm, Steve Bonine wrote:

You go to a real estate agent. �
You give them your wish list. �They do
the best that they can to meet it. �The chances
of them finding a house
that meets 100% of your requirements is nil if your wish list is
comprehensive.

House buying is a tradeoff. �The items on
your wish list related to ham
radio are no different than anything else. �It's as silly to tell
a real
estate agent that you absolutely must have three
bedrooms as it is to
tell them that you absolutely must not have a CCR.

I disagree!

I think it depends on how you write the requirements.

Maybe the house for you actually has four bedrooms. �
Maybe the house for
you actually has a CCR but it's something
that you can live with. �Those
are YOUR decisions. �If you never
see the potential properties, you
won't have the opportunity to make the decision.

Again, it's a matter of writing the requirements correctly. Most people
do not have the time to investigate hundreds of homes and all the
details. If they did, they wouldn't need an agent!

There's also the fact that in many situations it's not a one-person
decision. If Spouse A has a lot of time and patience but Spouse B does
not, looking at lots of homes is liable to cause Spouse B to put
pressure on Spouse A to compromise on requirements.

The way I would do it is the following:

First on the list would be the "must haves". These are minimum
requirements that cannot be compromised. For example, if I'm set on a
house in certain school districts, there's no point in showing me homes
outside those districts. If I'm moving in order to have a better
antenna farm, there's no point in showing me houses with less ground or
anti-antenna restrictions.

Second would be negotiables; things that there could be some compromise
on, such as a bathroom near the shack, a multi-car garage,etc.

Third, requirements would be written in the most flexible terms
possible. If I absolutely must have three bedrooms, the requirement
would be "Minimum of three bedrooms" so that a four-bedroom house
wouldn't be ruled out - but a two-bedroom house would be. Same for a
lot of other things. A no-farm-animals CC&R would be fine; a no-
antennas one is a deal-killer.

The key is to find a real estate agent who understands what you're
looking for and is able to show you a reasonable number of
homes; not
everything that might conceivably meet your need, but not rule out
something arbitrarily because it is 2002 square feet and your
max was 2000.

And part of that is making absolutely clear what's negotiable and what
isn't, and not wasting time on homes that cannot meet the requirements.

Ham radio may not be important to everyone, but it's important to me,
and what I see are unreasonable rules restricting it.

Yes, CCRs are a real issue for ham radio today.
�But condemning them as
inherently evil isn't going to accomplish anything because it's only a
tiny minority of the population that wants to erect a tower in their
back yard. �Most everyone thinks CCRs are good and in that
environment
they're not going away. �Best to understand how to work within
the system.

The problem is that "the system" is often specifically designed to
prevent being worked within.

In my township, there is zoning of every property. Zoning is simply a
set of government ordinances, and as such can be changed, amended,
varianced, or overlaid with special rules. Nothing in the zoning
ordinances is unchangeable, and there are strict limits on what zoning
can restrict, because the power of government is
constitutionallylimited.

In similar fashion there are "nuisance ordinances" about things like
noise and keeping the property in reasonable repair. There are also
building codes for safety reasons.

And some properties in my township have deed restrictions, a form of
CC&R. These can restrict things much more than zoning can, and can be
made unchangeable because they are contracts agreed to upon buying the
property - one of which is to require all future owners to do the same.
Most deed restrictions cannot be changed or varianced because they're
specifically set up not to be.

What I see happening more and more is that deed restrictions and
similar one-sided unchangeable contracts are being used to replace
zoning, nuisance ordinances and building codes. And I think that's a
very bad thing which must be resisted however possible.

Because if we don't, eventually there won't be anyplace left to have an
antenna, let alone a tower.

I'm old enough to remember a time when, if you told an American that
people were trying to sell homes where you couldn't put a TV antenna on
the roof, the response would be "That's crazy; they'll never sell!" And
they would have been right. But a little bit here and a little bit
there, and now it's not unusual at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY