wrote in message
oups.com...

Slow Code wrote:
Roy Lewallen wrote in
:



So if N9OGL's transmitions are legal power wise, he would basically be
broadcasting for the kids across the street. Maybe he could take song
requests. They can just shout out their front doors what songs they want
him to play.

SC

Not true.
I have an AM "beacon" running some test groups smack dab
in the middle of the HiFer/ISM 22M allocation. At maximum power
I am at the legal limit. Most of my tests are -20dB from that level and
I
have copied my "becaon" from over 100 miles away twice. I was -6dB
down from max, and was rather shocked. Don't rule out the odd fluke
path.

If you ever hear a YL reading a set of word pairs each followed by
a ID nubmber in cut morse, that is my odd little station.

I normally keep the power -63dB down from max legal, and only boast
it while actually conducting tests.

Terry in central KY

Give me the exact frequency Terry.

Dale W4OP

"Dale Parfitt" wrote in
news:R0aCg.15333$l95.9940@trnddc08:



So if N9OGL's transmitions are legal power wise, he would basically be
broadcasting for the kids across the street. Maybe he could take song
requests. They can just shout out their front doors what songs they
want him to play.

SC

I can copy perhaps 8 beacons on 13.555 MHz from all across the U.S.
Assuming they too are running the power level Roy calculated, N9OGL's
beacon should also be copyable.

Dale W4OP


You don't need to tell me the strengths of CW. I'm a CW advocate.
Just listen to the NCDXF beacons on 14.100. You can easily hear the 100mW
tone all over the world when there is propagation with a simple antenna.
I'm just saying the RF Todd is puting into his antenna has to be quit low
if he is transmitting legal power wise.

Sc

Dale Parfitt wrote:

Give me the exact frequency Terry.

Dale W4OP


13.560000MHz.
Smack dab in the middle of the HiFer/ISM allocation.
It is usually up on Saturday morning when I do some tests.

Terry

wrote:
Dale Parfitt wrote:

Give me the exact frequency Terry.

Dale W4OP


13.560000MHz.
Smack dab in the middle of the HiFer/ISM allocation.
It is usually up on Saturday morning when I do some tests.

so?
Terry

Roy Lewallen wrote:
John - KD5YI wrote:

Hey, Roy -

My 3 mW answer was for 30 meters. I think that ratios correctly to your
30 microwatts at 3 meters. Yes?

Yep, that's right. And I finally got curious enough to look up the
actual regulation. According to section 15.225(a), intentional radiators
at 13.553-13.567 MHz are allowed 15,848 uV/m at 30 meters, which is
about 4.75 mW to an isotropic antenna in free space. There's also a
0.01% frequency stability requirement which would imply crystal control.
And any emissions extending outside the band have to be about 54 dB
lower, 30 uV/m at 30 m.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Do what??? The power output can vary depending on a number of things
including coax and antenna, you can run 1,000 watts and come up 10,000
uV/meter at a distance of 30 meters. As the FCC Office of Engineering
and Technology has stated in their bulletin which deals with Part 15.

"What is the relationship between "microvolts per meter" and Watts?
Watts are the units used to describe the amount of power generated
by a transmitter. Microvolts per meter (µV/m) are the units used to
describe the strength of an electric field created by the operation of
a transmitter. A particular transmitter that generates a constant level
of power (Watts) can produce electric fields of different strengths
(µV/m) depending on, among other things, the type of transmission line
and antenna connected to it. Because it is the electric field that
causes interference to authorized radio communications, and since a
particular electric field strength does not directly correspond to a
particular level of transmitter power, most of the Part 15 emission
limits are specified in field strength."

Todd N9OGL
OMEGA ONE BROADCASTING

Brenda Ann wrote:
"John - KD5YI" wrote in message
news:AqTBg.55239$Lh4.46900@trnddc02...
Slow Code wrote:
dxAce wrote in
:

N9OGL wrote:


Not Lloyd wrote:

wrote in message
...
are you using an ex Ham transmitter?
I hear with LSB/USB get further than AM but is the LSB really wide
enough for quality audio? Got a grandpappys MP1000 here that will rag
50 watts AM all day long, but the band width is to narrow for
anything like nice music audio... Speech is nice though. Maybe there
is a wider AM filter than stock, some Ham wizardry to make it fit a
decent audio element on to the carrier,
............................................. .........................

Transmitting on illegal frequencies with an illegal transceiver?
Only stupid Toad would do that.

Gather around the legal frequencies this evening at 14.331 as we get
a forum of LEGAL Hams together to discuss the nefarious activities of
Toad and Roger. Look for this forum to begin on or about nine p.m.
eastern time. Toad cannot join in, nor can KB9RQZ, since they are not
licensed for this freq. Roger needs no invitation...he will lurk and
jam as he sees fit.

Before you go around spouting that I'm running illegal, I would
suggestion that you read Part 15 (47 CFR 15) but more to the point 47
CFR 15.225

How much power you running? Unable to hear you here, but I'll give a
listen again tomorrow if you're still up and running.




10000uV/m at 30m is the maximum. How much power into an isotropic
radiator give 10000uV/m at 30m. Of course, when the antenna has gain,
power has to be reduced to avoid illegal operation.


My guess is 3 mW.

John

The level is the same as emissions within the CB band:


Sec. 15.227 Operation within the band 26.96-27.28 MHz.

(a) The field strength of any emission within this band shall not exceed
10,000 microvolts/meter at 3 meters. The emission limit in this paragraph is
based on measurement instrumentation employing an average detector. The
provisions in Sec. 15.35 for limiting peak emissions apply.

(b) The field strength of any emissions which appear outside of this band
shall not exceed the general radiated emission limits in Sec. 15.209.

I don't know that there is a difference anymore between Part 95 and Part 15
emissions in the CB band... the old Part 15, back when a license was
required, used to be 100mW.

PART 15 in the CB band is 10,000 uV/meter @ 3 meter (100 mw).(Walkie
talkies and cordless phones are also 10,000 uV/meter @3 meters) While
on 13 MHz it's 10,000 uV/meter @ 30 meters or about 1.8 watts at 100
feet.

Todd N9OGL
OMEGA ONE RADIO

"Slow Code" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Dale Parfitt" wrote in
news:R0aCg.15333$l95.9940@trnddc08:



So if N9OGL's transmitions are legal power wise, he would basically be
broadcasting for the kids across the street. Maybe he could take song
requests. They can just shout out their front doors what songs they
want him to play.

SC

I can copy perhaps 8 beacons on 13.555 MHz from all across the U.S.
Assuming they too are running the power level Roy calculated, N9OGL's
beacon should also be copyable.

Dale W4OP


You don't need to tell me the strengths of CW. I'm a CW advocate.
Just listen to the NCDXF beacons on 14.100. You can easily hear the 100mW
tone all over the world when there is propagation with a simple antenna.
I'm just saying the RF Todd is puting into his antenna has to be quit low
if he is transmitting legal power wise.

Sc


I too enjoy CW- probably 90% of my operating. My comment was that if his ERP
is the same as the other beacons, then he will be heard well beyond "across
the street".

W4OP

wrote:
Dale Parfitt wrote:

Give me the exact frequency Terry.

Dale W4OP


13.560000MHz.
Smack dab in the middle of the HiFer/ISM allocation.
It is usually up on Saturday morning when I do some tests.

so?
Terry

Dale wanted to know what frequency my "beacon" operates upon.
I was only responding. CW is best for weak signal ops, but I wanted
an AM test source for ongoing receiver experiments. Sorry if the AM
causes you any distress, but such is life.

Terry

N9OGL wrote:
Roy Lewallen wrote:

John - KD5YI wrote:

Hey, Roy -

My 3 mW answer was for 30 meters. I think that ratios correctly to your
30 microwatts at 3 meters. Yes?

Yep, that's right. And I finally got curious enough to look up the
actual regulation. According to section 15.225(a), intentional radiators
at 13.553-13.567 MHz are allowed 15,848 uV/m at 30 meters, which is
about 4.75 mW to an isotropic antenna in free space. There's also a
0.01% frequency stability requirement which would imply crystal control.
And any emissions extending outside the band have to be about 54 dB
lower, 30 uV/m at 30 m.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Do what??? The power output can vary depending on a number of things
including coax and antenna, you can run 1,000 watts and come up 10,000
uV/meter at a distance of 30 meters. As the FCC Office of Engineering
and Technology has stated in their bulletin which deals with Part 15.

"What is the relationship between "microvolts per meter" and Watts?
Watts are the units used to describe the amount of power generated
by a transmitter. Microvolts per meter (µV/m) are the units used to
describe the strength of an electric field created by the operation of
a transmitter. A particular transmitter that generates a constant level
of power (Watts) can produce electric fields of different strengths
(µV/m) depending on, among other things, the type of transmission line
and antenna connected to it. Because it is the electric field that
causes interference to authorized radio communications, and since a
particular electric field strength does not directly correspond to a
particular level of transmitter power, most of the Part 15 emission
limits are specified in field strength."

Todd N9OGL
OMEGA ONE BROADCASTING




C'mon, Todd. He qualified it by saying "4.75 mW to an isotropic antenna in
free space." It is just a way to get a "feel" for how much power might be
required based on the FCC uV/m limit under certain theoretical conditions.

I would start with a calculation like this if I were designing a transmitter
whose signal has to meet those limits. I think that would be better than
starting with a 1000W transmitter when only a few milliwatts is required.

When was the last time you used an isotropic antenna? How was your trip to
free space?

John

N9OGL wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:

"John - KD5YI" wrote in message
news:AqTBg.55239$Lh4.46900@trnddc02...

Slow Code wrote:

dxAce wrote in
:

N9OGL wrote:



Not Lloyd wrote:


wrote in message
...
are you using an ex Ham transmitter?
I hear with LSB/USB get further than AM but is the LSB really wide
enough for quality audio? Got a grandpappys MP1000 here that will rag
50 watts AM all day long, but the band width is to narrow for
anything like nice music audio... Speech is nice though. Maybe there
is a wider AM filter than stock, some Ham wizardry to make it fit a
decent audio element on to the carrier,
........................................... ...........................

Transmitting on illegal frequencies with an illegal transceiver?
Only stupid Toad would do that.

Gather around the legal frequencies this evening at 14.331 as we get
a forum of LEGAL Hams together to discuss the nefarious activities of
Toad and Roger. Look for this forum to begin on or about nine p.m.
eastern time. Toad cannot join in, nor can KB9RQZ, since they are not
licensed for this freq. Roger needs no invitation...he will lurk and
jam as he sees fit.

Before you go around spouting that I'm running illegal, I would
suggestion that you read Part 15 (47 CFR 15) but more to the point 47
CFR 15.225

How much power you running? Unable to hear you here, but I'll give a
listen again tomorrow if you're still up and running.




10000uV/m at 30m is the maximum. How much power into an isotropic
radiator give 10000uV/m at 30m. Of course, when the antenna has gain,
power has to be reduced to avoid illegal operation.


My guess is 3 mW.

John

The level is the same as emissions within the CB band:


Sec. 15.227 Operation within the band 26.96-27.28 MHz.

(a) The field strength of any emission within this band shall not exceed
10,000 microvolts/meter at 3 meters. The emission limit in this paragraph is
based on measurement instrumentation employing an average detector. The
provisions in Sec. 15.35 for limiting peak emissions apply.

(b) The field strength of any emissions which appear outside of this band
shall not exceed the general radiated emission limits in Sec. 15.209.

I don't know that there is a difference anymore between Part 95 and Part 15
emissions in the CB band... the old Part 15, back when a license was
required, used to be 100mW.


PART 15 in the CB band is 10,000 uV/meter @ 3 meter (100 mw).(Walkie
talkies and cordless phones are also 10,000 uV/meter @3 meters) While
on 13 MHz it's 10,000 uV/meter @ 30 meters or about 1.8 watts at 100
feet.

Todd N9OGL
OMEGA ONE RADIO


You are wrong about the FCC limits on 13 MHz. There is no mention of 10,000
uV/m. Here are the limits:


Sec. 15.225 Operation within the band 13.110-14.010 MHz.

(a) The field strength of any emissions within the band 13.553-

13.567 MHz shall not exceed 15,848 microvolts/meter at 30 meters.

(b) Within the bands 13.410-13.553 MHz and 13.567-13.710 MHz, the

field strength of any emissions shall not exceed 334 microvolts/meter at

30 meters.

(c) Within the bands 13.110-13.410 MHz and 13.710-14.010 MHz the

field strength of any emissions shall not exceed 106 microvolts/meter at

30 meters.


You are also wrong about the power level required to achieve these limits.
The power required is much lower.

Cheers,
John