wrote:
wrote:

Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those
inbred bigoted morsemen in here.


Take YOUR beloved morse code test and shove it up YOUR ass.
Push real hard...there seems to be an obstruction there.
Must be your own four neurons in the way.

Beep, beep

Gee, Len....do you think posting that way will cause people to change
their minds and agree with you?
psoibly but not likely

Do you think FCC would be convinced by such arguments?

no but then Fcc was not being addressed

Is that sort of posting your idea of how a "professional" behaves?

it certainly was the proper professional response

caling a jerk a kerk is simply being honest

wrote:

Perhaps they are simply holding up a mirror.....

Gee, Len, it's been more than three years since the ITU treaty changed.
Some countries have eliminated Morse Code testing, some haven't, and at
least one (Canada) has worked out a unique solution to the debate.
Meanwhile the USA rules on the subject haven't changed since 2000.

Are you frustrated because your will has not become law...yet?

Jim, welcome back. I guess Coslo's BBS was a little too quiet?

billy beeper

wrote:
wrote:

Perhaps they are simply holding up a mirror.....

Gee, Len, it's been more than three years since the ITU treaty changed.
Some countries have eliminated Morse Code testing, some haven't, and at
least one (Canada) has worked out a unique solution to the debate.
Meanwhile the USA rules on the subject haven't changed since 2000.

Are you frustrated because your will has not become law...yet?

Jim, welcome back. I guess Coslo's BBS was a little too quiet?
did it ever get of the virual ground?

billy beeper

"an old friend" wrote in
oups.com:


Slow Code wrote:
" wrote in
oups.com:

Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new
millennium.



And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it.

trolling right along


Are you puting any effort into learning CW Mark or are you just being lazy
waiting for things to get dumbed down some more?

SC

" wrote in
oups.com:


Further, you are ten kinds of short on ability to threaten.
Your threats and "orders" become recycled electrons doing
nothing but dissipating a tiny bit of heat. yawn

Take YOUR beloved morse code test and shove it up YOUR ass.
Push real hard...there seems to be an obstruction there.
Must be your own four neurons in the way.

Beep, beep





Great news Len,

your proctologist called, they found your head.

Sc

Slow Code wrote:
" wrote in
oups.com:


your proctologist called, they found your head.

Slow Code:kook on parade

wrote:
wrote:

From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am

ARRL was first a very small group of local New Englanders,
formed 5 years after the first (and still surviving) national
organization, the Radio Club of America.


But it didn't stay that way for long. By the time of the 1917 shutdown
- just three years after ARRL was founded - it was a national
organization.

One of the cofounders, Charles H. Stewart, 3ZS, lived right here in
Radnor, PA. Hardly "local" in those days.

Heck, Jim, you're going to ruin one of Leonard's rants. Stewart, as I
recall, succeeded HPM.


There were lots of
"national club" competitors in the 1920s but those eventually
dropped out.


Name some.


RCA still exists but is not much concerned with
amateur radio.


It is a very small organization whose main activities seem to be
honorary and historical.

Why are those guys always living in the past? ;-o

Prior to the Internet going public in 1991, the only major
presence for US amateur radio in DC was the legal firm on
retainer from the ARRL.


There was nothing to stop others from doing the same thing. Nor from
contacting FCC directly.


ARRL kept promoting themselves as
"representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but
suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions.


Why are you suspicious, Len? Anyone could petition the FCC directly,
and many did, long before the Internet and ECFS.

Len is suspicious of the League's elections of Directors too. Len is
suspicious of a number of things in which he isn't involved.


That changed dramatically once the FCC got their website
going and ramped up to take Comments electronically. The
ARRL had to retain a second firm in DC for lobbying.


All ECFS did was to make it easier to petition and comment.

Correct. It also saved a stamp. In the case of a number of Len's
comments, it saved him lots of stamps.


The evidence is an observation of the number and kind of
Comments on 98-143 "restructuring" versus Comments on
all those Petitions and last year's NPRM concerning code
testing elimination. The pro-code-test advocates' Comments
were straight out of the League hymn book about morsemanship
with a few adding in nebulous advantages for "homeland
security" necessities! [those Petitions began after 11 Sep
01]


??

You know--the ARRL hymnal. It's filled with songs rallying government
to the ARRL. Len's sense of the surreal is working overtime.

The fact is that the majority of individuals who commented supported
the retention of at least some Morse Code testing. The majority also
supported elimination of the Morse Code test for the General Class
license.


What is more telling about the League's stubbornness on their
pro-code-test stance is that the IARU took a firm stand on
changing the ITU-R amateur radio regulations compulsory
(by administrations) morse testing for any license having
below-30-MHz privileges...the IARU wanted it OPTIONAL by all
administrations (at their discretion) a good year BEFORE
WRC-03. The ARRL wanted to keep the compulsory regulation.


Not true! Not true at all, Len.

The fact is that way back in 2000 or 2001, the ARRL BoD changed their
policy wrt S25.5. They decided to neither support nor oppose changes to
ITU-R S25.5.

Given the strong support from many other member countries to change
S25.5, the ARRL's no-opinion policy pretty much guaranteed there would
be majority support to change S25.5.


After WRC-03 the League took a neutral stance, neither for
nor against code testing in the USA. It's still a "ARRL
versus the World" situation.


Wrong again, Len!

In ARRL's petition to FCC, they proposed eliminating the Morse Code
test for General but retaining it for Extra.

Len isn't going to let facts stand in his way. His mind is made up.

The majority of individuals commenting on the NPRM wanted the test
eliminated for General.

The majority of individuals commenting on the NPRM wanted the test
retained for Extra.

The two majorities are not composed of all the same individuals, but
they *are* majorities.


Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new
millennium.

And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it.

Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those
inbred bigoted morsemen in here. You can't discuss anything
reasonable-like, only cuss at those who disagree with you. :-)

yet I do wonder if he isn't Robeson somedays but I am pretty sure he is
just another bitter old that bought into "incetive Licesning) the brain
child of the ARRL

It should be abundantly clear that "Incentive Licensing" was
never about "advancing" in amateur radio beyond getting TITLE,
RAND, and STATUS.


"RAND"?

Do you mean Remington Rand, Ayn Rand, or the South African monetary
unit?

It is obviously a reference to the Rand Corporation--all very hush hush.
It is abundantly clear that Len's mind is made up. He KNOWS what
incentive licensing was about.


That was VERY important to the controlling
coterie of the League, folks who wanted to be "better" than
others...in a hobby activity.


Nope. That's not what it was about at all, Len. Do try to get your
history straight.

The fact is that the "incentive licensing" changes were an attempt to
*return* to a system something like that which existed before February
1953. The complexity of the final result was due in large part to it
being pieced together from the numerous non-ARRL proposals mentioned
earlier.

btw, the 1951 restructuring that gave us the license classes with names
rather than letters was not primarily driven by ARRL.


What "incentive licensing" DID create was just the opposite of
"good fellowship" among amateurs, that of CLASS DISTINCTION
and a "pecking order" based largely on morsemanship.


How so?

Did you forget about the written tests?

Don't ruin his rant, Jim. He needs to massage a few facts to make
things fit with his conclusion.


The
morsemen won it. Never mind that radio technology was already
far advanced from the 1930s' style of amateur radio and that
morse code was falling by the wayside in every other radio
service, the League still (stubbornly) held to the belief that
all amateurs "should" be able to be morse skilled...even four
decades after the 1930s.


How many other radio services used Morse Code in 1966, Len?

Was there a shortage of trained radiotelegraphers during the Vietnam
War?


The League lobbied for and got the "vanity license" system so
that olde-tymers could get their 1x2 and 2x1 super-special
guru-status callsigns. Even more status symbolism.


Should accomplishment not be rewarded?

Len shouldn't confuse the Vanity Callsign System with the earlier FCC
decisions, beginning in 1968 to award 1x2 calls to those who held the
Extra and had been licensed for a certan number of years. That was
later modified to include any Extra Class licensee without a minimum
number of years licensed. There was no periodic fee charged for those
callsign changes. That it chafes Len, is tough.


Combining
"vanity" calls and "incentive licensing" there was a perfect
setup for all who managed to get both to crow and holler they
WERE BETTER than all others. Good fellowship went out the
window...rank, status, title RULED.

Perhaps in Len's mind, it did.

btw, Len, did you ever manage to get your Extra out of the box? It's
been more than six and a half years now...

Len still hasn't opened the box to obtain any amateur radio license.
He's been carping in this newsgroup for a decade or so and inertia rulez.


Further, you are ten kinds of short on ability to threaten.
Your threats and "orders" become recycled electrons doing
nothing but dissipating a tiny bit of heat. yawn

amasing how they keep resorting to threats and orders

That's all they have left in this new millennium, Mark.

Some of them, such as Blow Code and Hambrecht still think
they are "better than others" in all aspects, not just
morsemanship.


Well, maybe they are, Len. Or maybe they aren't.

Why does it bother you so much?

Do you have a need to look down on everyone?

There are those doing something in which Len is not a participant. Some
of those who are participants are perceived by Len to have rank, status
and privilege. In amateur radio, Len would have to begin as all did--at
the bottom. He'd have no rank, status or privilege for quite some time.
There'd be those who would think they were "better" than him. There
are others who'd actually BE better than him. The thought chafes him.
Len isn't an instant anything in amateur radio. He isn't yet a neophyte.


They LIKE that. So much so that they are
in great personal fear of losing that very precious rank,
status, title, and privilege that MIGHT happen if the
code test is eliminated.


How will any currently licensed amateur lose anything if the Morse Code
test is eliminated?


They will LOSE their "better
than you" rationalization.


How?

If they really are better than you, they'll still be better without the
test. And vice-versa.

Precisely. They'll also have much more experience in amateur radio than
Leonard H. Anderson. Those who are proficient in the use of Morse, will
always be a leg up on Leonard.


Internally the sky will have
fallen on their self-perceptions.

Personally, I think radio and electronics is totally
fascinating.


Me too. Amateur radio particularly.

Seconded. How it must burn to have professed a decades-long interest in
something only to remain an outsider.


So much so that I made a career choice of
it while studying for an entirely different sort of
work.


Funded by the taxpayers, too.

....and you'll note that Len is back to talking careers. That's one of
the wonderful things about amateur radio. One can work in something
quite far afield from radio and still have a rich and rewarding
experience in amateur radio. One of my local friends works at a funeral
home. One works as a jail guard. One is a retired teacher. All find
much enjoyment in amateur radio.


Professional work, not some amateur dabbling,
yet I liked to make electronic things in my home
workshop.


Does being paid for something make someone automatically "better", Len?

It apparently does, unless it something made through dabbling in his
home workshop.


Things other than work-related tasks. It
is FUN, personally rewarding, not "work."


But not rewarding enough for you to get an amateur radio license, it
seems.

....and learning morse would apparently be "work" for Leonard.

Or have you gotten that Extra out of its box, as you told us you were
going to do, way back on January 19, 2000?

He talks the talk, but has trouble with the walk.


I got into Big Time HF comms 53 1/2 years ago and have
seen what modes DO work well and on a 24/7 basis on
long-haul circuits that HAD to be kept working.


Using equipment supplied and paid for by others. With a team of several
hundred people trained to do the job.

It is always Big Time in the Len recounting. At least he has dropped
the claim that HE worked 24/7. My personal experience with PROFESSIONAL
long haul circuits that HAD to be kept working is that they don't
always. When a healthy solar flare comes along, you might as well mail
'em a letter.

That doesn't make you more qualified to judge what amateurs do -
self-funded and largely self-trained.


Years
later some KID is trying to "moralize" me into "working
on morsemanship?"


Is youth somehow wrong, Len?

You surely remember what he has said about CHILDREN in the past.


He (or she) can go shove it
somewhere...until he (or she) can prove they've done
more than I in radio communications...which they have
NOT done yet in here.


I see.

What if someone older than you, with more radio experience, told you
that you should work on your morse code skills? How would you react?

How about if someone younger than Len, but with more experience in radio
told him?


Once, a very long time ago, I thought that becoming a
"ham" was a cool deal. That was before the commsats,
before technology had fully gotten with the semi-
conductor era, before the wonderful way we can get
over most of the world via PCs and the Internet.


What about your posting of January 19, 2000?

In addition to that, what about the fact that he is paying for internet
service and that invariably, that internet circuit goes through wires
somewhere? The cellular telephone is a wonderful thing too, but it
isn't a substitute for amateur radio. It'd be pricey too.


Why
IS it that some have to be a grand champion of the
1930s over seven decades later? What are THEY trying
to prove? I could care less about 1930s technology
and the "radio standards" of then. I live in the NOW.


Then why do you tell us so much about your past?

If he didn't, he couldn't regale us with tales of his days in Big Time
HF radio!

btw, if you are *not* interested in becoming a ham, why are you so
vocal about the requirements?

Didn't you know, Jim? Len's made himself an ADVOCATE for
something-or-other.


If some dumb**** wants to moralize about "working" and
"investing" he (or she) can go get some flagellation
and suffer themselves for their own "cause." I'm not
about to join him (or her) in such moralistic self-
abuse/mis-use.


You sure seem to spend a lot of effort arguing about it, though.

Why?

His life is otherwise empty, depsite the comfortable income, two
mortgage-free homes and the like. Maybe Len can take a part-time job as
bag boy at Ralph's.


If these self-styled emperors want to
flap their new clothes in my direction, I'll just keep
on pointing out that they are NAKED (and ugly).


Perhaps they are simply holding up a mirror.....

Len often acts ugly. I prefer not to think of him as naked.

Gee, Len, it's been more than three years since the ITU treaty changed.
Some countries have eliminated Morse Code testing, some haven't, and at
least one (Canada) has worked out a unique solution to the debate.
Meanwhile the USA rules on the subject haven't changed since 2000.

Are you frustrated because your will has not become law...yet?

Whether Len is ever a radio amateur or not, I'm not going to lose any
sleep over it.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:

bad night for DX?

From: "an old friend" on Sun, Sep 3 2006 2:41 pm


wrote:
From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am
wrote:
From: Slow Code on Fri, Sep 1 2006 5:36 pm
" wrote in
Rick Frazier wrote:

seeking mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about
you get a life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands
right now?

Excellent question, "Slow." Why didn't you answer it?

becuase the answer is that there is nobody on we wants to "talk' to

Or maybe nobody wants to talk to him... :-)

that too

:-)

the CW has seen the light that being they betrayed the ARS by listening
to the ARRL what 50 years ago

I don't think the ARRL "betrayed the ARS". I believe that they
sincerely thought that morsemanship was THEN a topmost skill
of US radio amtaeurs. Fifty years ago would be 1956 and not
long after the passing of ARRL co-founder (and president-for-
life) Hiram Percy Maxim. "T.O.M." used his editorial pages
to promote morsemanship in the 1920s and 1930s.

I think they betrayed it wether they meant to or not by as you will
sowing the seeds for the battles that were to follow

indeed in looking only back at Maxim I submit they betaryed even him

Careful, careful, Mark...Sister Nun of the Above, now the
Mother SUPERIOR is BACK, ruler in hand, ready to spank the
knuckles of anyone who DARES say anything negative about
the blessed, sacred ARRL!

I was literally going back 50 years to 1956 and remembering
how both the electronics hobby and the (much, much bigger)
electronics industry was doing...preparing to move to
California and the aerospace industries that year. Frankly,
the ARRL wasn't keeping up with the electronics industry
other than keeping QST afloat with advertising revenue.
Since they were largely unaware (from their publications)
what the (then) long-haul radio communications were doing,
they couldn't really decide which way to go for amateurs.
Their decisions were based largely on ignorance, especially
that of SSB. The commercial-military folks on HF were already
USING SSB on HF and had been doing it for over two decades by
1956...yet the ARRL wanted amateurs to believe that "amateur
radio 'pioneered' SSB." :-) Bull****.


yet I do wonder if he isn't Robeson somedays but I am pretty sure he is
just another bitter old that bought into "incetive Licesning) the brain
child of the ARRL

It should be abundantly clear that "Incentive Licensing" was
never about "advancing" in amateur radio beyond getting TITLE,
RAND, and STATUS. That was VERY important to the controlling
coterie of the League, folks who wanted to be "better" than
others...in a hobby activity.

What "incentive licensing" DID create was just the opposite of
"good fellowship" among amateurs, that of CLASS DISTINCTION
and a "pecking order" based largely on morsemanship. The
morsemen won it. Never mind that radio technology was already
far advanced from the 1930s' style of amateur radio and that
morse code was falling by the wayside in every other radio
service, the League still (stubbornly) held to the belief that
all amateurs "should" be able to be morse skilled...even four
decades after the 1930s.

and therby betraying the fundental core of the service, a change that
needs to removed altogether if possible hence my fovoring a oe 2 class
license system with the prevedlges indentical to all the lclasses that
exist (with modern radio I reconize it may be needed to have some sort
of up or out license with 10 to do it becuase of the volume of material
but the classes should be equal in preveledge and the class should not
be a publicly accsable (except on an ARS wide) basis

Well, it's a subject which is damn clear to outside observers
but the Believers are about to strike a blow for the Church of
St. Hiram. Mother SIPERIOR is back in her habit of
one-liner sentences thinking she can slay the dragons (of her
mind) which defile the sanctity of the Newington folks who
"know what is good for amateur radio!" :-)

Prior to 1990 there were already FIVE different license classes
in US amateur radio. The no-code Technician class made it SIX.
A decade later the FCC chopped that in half. Rightly so in my
estimation. It had gotten literally Byzantine in structure with
the privileged bandplans and who could use what mode. It was
worse than the commercial-professional operator licenses. The
Restructuring was sorely needed for the avocational activities.

The worst blow to the rank-status-title morsemen was cutting
the code test rate down to a single, low one, well below the
exhaulted, royal rate of 20 WPM that they overused for
bragging rights before 1998. :-) Those extra super special
morsemen lost NO PRIVILEGES ON THE BANDS but the sky fell in
on their bragging rights. Boo-hoo, poor morsemen. :-)


Once, a very long time ago, I thought that becoming a
"ham" was a cool deal. That was before the commsats,
before technology had fully gotten with the semi-
conductor era, before the wonderful way we can get
over most of the world via PCs and the Internet. Why
IS it that some have to be a grand champion of the
1930s over seven decades later? What are THEY trying
to prove? I could care less about 1930s technology
and the "radio standards" of then. I live in the NOW.
If some dumb**** wants to moralize about "working" and
"investing" he (or she) can go get some flagellation
and suffer themselves for their own "cause." I'm not
about to join him (or her) in such moralistic self-
abuse/mis-use. If these self-styled emperors want to
flap their new clothes in my direction, I'll just keep
on pointing out that they are NAKED (and ugly).

and inccreasingly cold and unfeeling and failing to fufill the debt
they owe to those that came before them

I disagree with you a bit...nobody "owes" anything
other than bill payments, Mark.

The rabid amateur morsemen are just full of themselves.
They have lost their ability to RULE by that singular
skill, are now worried that they might lose all their
rank, title, status, and privileges when the code test
is finally eliminated. Few of them seem to have much
for themselves beyond that bragging right. shrug

From: on Sun, Sep 3 2006 5:10 pm


wrote:

Jim, welcome back. I guess Coslo's BBS was a little too quiet?

billy beeper

Ahem...Coslo's attempt at an amateur radio "forum" hasn't had
a new posting since 20 Feb 06. Seven months of quiet.

Or maybe all the new posts got tangled with his "to the edge
of space" balloon experiment and floated off? :-)