RadioGuy wrote in
:

In article .net,
says...
"Dr.Ace" wrote in
:


"Thats Right_ 20wpm" wrote in message
...
Slow Code is the kind of guy that everybodys hates on the air. He is
the Jammer because no one listens to him.


Probably because he doesn't have an amateur radio license .
Ace - WH2T




Tnx, 73, good luck in the contest.

SC

You know you don't have a license.

RG

PS - I know who you are!


You haven't got a clue.

If RRAP were Wheel of Fortune, I'd tell you to buy a vowel.

SC

RadioGuy wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

There you go again. Don't wonder who I am, go enjoy ham radio.

and tell people they need to learn code.

SC


I know who you are!!!!!


You haven't got a clue. Now turn on your CB, maybe your no-code
friends are calling. When you get tired of crapping on the group
Learn CW.

SC

wrote:
From: on Tues, Oct 31 2006 4:17 am

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

[ etc., etc., etc.... :-) ]


Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
license.

You mean the Technician? If so, they are a considerable amount less
than half.

40% is more like it.

49.5% according to your very own postings.

You are mistaken, Brian.

No, I'm not.

Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
License.

The Technician license does not make up 49.5% of US hams. The total of
Technicians and Technician Pluses reaches about that level. (All
Technician Pluses are Morse Code tested).

The FCC did away with the Technician Plus class of license. They are
all Technicians now. The Technician license has no requirement for a
code exam. Should a Technician wish to use what were once Technician
Plus priveleges, they're on their own to show eligibility.

Miccolis can't seem to understand the LAW. No matter how
often it is explained to him, he falls back on the Speroni
'definition' of 'What Technicians Are.' Of course, AH0A
is a PCTA morseman of unchangeable ideas.

Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
License.

Miccolis also insisted that ENIAC was "the first electronic
computer" because he got brainwashed by Moore School PR,
being in eastern PA. Funny thing, but the LAW was decided
in the early 1970s by a Federal Court trial and the Atanasof-
Berry Computer of 1939-1942 was declared "first."


btw, no US amateur radio license is "code-free". All of them can use
Morse Code.

And they can all use CWGet.

...and they can all toss their morse keys into the dumpster. :-)

Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
License.

btw, next Tuesday I get to choose between Curt Weldon and Joe Sestak.
Which do you think I should vote for?

Who did you vote for last time?

...and why in hell should WE care?

I just don't get it.

And you couldn't even get the distance to the moon,

You are mistaken.

Right.

If'n Jimmie he say "mistaken" he be da Judge! He be da Law!

:-)

I'm not buying it.

Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
License

You've repeatedly claimed that I mis-stated the distance from Earth to
the moon on rrap.
Show us where I did that - if you can.

I don't think you can, because it did not happen. If I did it, show us.

Otherwise you're just making things up.

You're making that up.

Miccolis ought to move to L.A. and get in the make-up biz.
Lotsa money to be made here in the entertainment capitol
of show business. Especially around Halloween time...:-)

God knows the "Professional" PCTAs can't Kiss and Make-Up.

and you're a "professional."

I've never claimed to be a professional astronomer.

What? Only astronomers get to calculate path loss in space?

A quarter-million-mile distance was in all the newspapers
since the Apollo Program began. Perhaps he thinks only
astronomers read newspapers? :-)

Only "Professional" Astronomers can write space articles in teh
newspapers.

Len claims to be a "PROFESSIONAL in radio-electronics" (whatever that
is) but he messes up on the length of an antenna for a radio service he
has claimed to use.

How can you be sure?

Tsk. Miccolis is hell-bent on character-assassination lately.
I make a typo in a message and he makes it into a HEADLINE
STORY charging some kind of ineptitude! :-)

It was obviously a typo. But Jim and Dave put on their stupid face
allatime.

Not only that, his Waffen SS buddie has to chime in like it
is a capital offense! :-)

Tsk, Miccolis is now under Typo Alert Status, condition Red.
Each and every typo HE makes will be FEATURED INEPTITUDES of
his own! Regardless of his 'explanations' of his typos, he
will be charged with violations of all mankind! :-)

Chimes against humanity!

That's all in the sense of "justice, fair play, common sense,
(etc.)" to "HELP" others. :-)

Jim is so helpful. I recall asking for the formula to calculate a coil
to match an end-fed half-wave antenna to 50 ohm coax. Then I got told
right off that I should have a different kind of antenna and then the
stomp fest began.

The same point that you and W3RV are making when you kick around SSB vs
CW in your field day and other scores. Why is it that comparing scores
is only something that you can do?

He has declared himself Ultimate Authority, therefore 'judge.'

With these guys, its just a comedy of errors.

The Morsemen

Who are they?

There used to be four of them...

The "Four Morsemen of the Apocalypse." :-)

There's only two now. A sign of the times.

I simply want to know where all those stations are supposed to come
from.

Where do stations come from now?

The stork brings them from Japan? :-)

I don't think the stork can pass a security background investigation.

Many, many, many amateur just aren't interested in morse code, and
many, many, many amateurs just aren't interested in contests.

Blasphemy! Heresy! The Church of St. Hiram may begin
the Inquisition with you tied on the stake, Brian!

Are they getting bored with Copernicus?

But if we were able to have have 100% participation and every amateur
were offered a manual morse code key and a downloaded copy of CWGet....

Hmmm...interesting mental picture...350 thousand radio amateurs
on the few HF ham bands ALL busy 'contesting' in relatively the
same time period. That would result in the Ultimate QRM that
would cause meltdown of all the scores checkers... :-)

Log sheets full of faked QSOs.

So what? I don't read everything written to rrap. Larry hasn't posted
here in *years*.

Sure he has. He's posted as himself and he's probably posting as
someone else.

Las Vegas odds-makers are with your assessment... :-)

He can post anon all he wants, but the damage is done under his name
and call sign. Ever wonder why you see someone "reply" without adding
anything? They're making sure it stays in the archives.

I just don't see anyone using CWGet to operate a contest - even though
they could. Heck *you* could. Why don't you?

I don't enjoy morse code.

We can only, repeat ONLY, "see" what Miccolis sees. All else
is a 'mistake.'

But I really don't enjoy morse code.

Why? The Conditional and its predecessor Class C go back to before the
FCC.

So there's a long, long tradition in the dumbing down of the amateur
radio service.

By all those olde-tyme morsemen REFUSING to allow modernization
of the US amateur radio service in going to, and trying out NEW
modes, methods, and lobbying for UPDATING the ARS regulations.

BTW, Miccolis hasn't existed since AFTER the end of WW II, let
alone the creation of the FCC in 1934...but he is "knowledgeable"
by "experience" of all those old pioneers (in his heart he knows
he is 'right').

He feels a special kinship with them, and through that kinship he has
served in other ways.

Miccolis hadn't learned to read yet when the amateur SSB boom
began...over two decades AFTER the commercial and military
radio world had begun using SSB for long-haul HF comms.

An OSU Alum put SSB radios in airplanes. Oh, what was his name?

He
has NO direct experience to the radio world of the 1950s
except in some juvenile way. He wasn't working for a living
among amateurs who were divided about the SSB issues nor was
he party to some of those amateurs' (of long standing then)
rather abject ignorance of basic modulation concepts. [John
Carson of AT&T had published the mathematical proof in 1915,
the basis of the 'phasing' concept...the rest of the radio
world accepted Carson's proof and those specializing in FM
adopted "Carson's Rule" on FM modulation index]

He sure was a funny guy. I used to stay up late to watch him.

Miccolis never tuned up any SSB transmitter in the early 1950s
as I had to do, never QSYed one. Not on HF and sure as hell
not IN the military (he never served). Neither did he tune
up or QSY any RTTY of MUX TTY transmitter on HF in that time
frame. But...he "knows" all about it by reading about it in
QST and the ARRL Handbook.

He can tell you all about the contributions that the ARS made during WW
II, except that the ARS wasn't authorized during WW II.

Miccolis is a MORSEMAN. Those of the "CW gets through when
nothing else will" DUMBED-DOWN amateur persuasion. All they
can conceive is switching RF off and on using morse code.
Methods that were used in the very first 'radios' of the
Spark Tx and 'crystal detector' era. On-off keying of a CW
carrier. Wow, real "technical" and full of smarts to bang-
bang switch a carrier!

Did the ARRL *ever* lobby to improve regulations for the
'new' modes in the ARS? Hell, the DSSS and FHSS modes were
kept hamstrung by ARS regulations into the 1990s...when the
commercial and military radio services were already using
DSSS and FHSS...DSSS being the major player in the commercial
WLAN and 'wireless' market. RTTY is still struggling along
with OLD speed limits. PSK31 was innovated by a Brit (Peter
Martinez) and was trial-tested in Europe for five years
before it got any publicity in US ham magazines. Non-US
hams have been using PM for extremely-weak radio comms for
years, on bands below the lowest allocated US ham bands;
the ARRL is finally getting around to 'requesting help' for
frequencies as 'low' as a small sliver just above 500 KHz,
helped get an 'experimental net' going there in this new
millennium. Wow, really 'advanced technology' there,
"exploring 'long wave' comms" with "CW."

It's like Deja Vu all over again.

"CW gets through when nothing else will." One of the 1930s
era MYTHS, born when hams were trying out DSB AM in days
before WW II. "CW" does NOT 'get through' better than PM
or some of the other modes, but the DUMBED-DOWN morsemen
just can't understand that. They think that OOK CW is
"smart!" 1906 thinking in the year 2006. Ptui.

Sam Morse desinged his code to be marked on a tape with a pen.

Try to stay on the subject.

I am on the subject. You're trying to change it.

If you choose to comment on something I say, then confine it to what I
said. If you stick with that simple concept, you'll do OK.

Brian, you KNOW Miccolis will NEVER do that. He runs off
at the keyboard into dozens of wild trips off the thread.
Mainly it is an attempt at MISDIRECTION so he won't have to
explain his own errors, mistakes, false assumptions, and
general ignorance of ALL radio, not the kind of radio that
was spoon-fed to him by ARRL publications.

200 Meters and Down. The Bible of St. Hiram.

First off, they had to have offices with test facilities. The office
they had in Philadelphia back when I took my exams was on the 10th
floor of the Custom House at 2nd and Chestnut. Lots of square feet of
prime real estate just for the exam room.

Then there was the time of the examiners, all of whom worked for FCC.
Pay and benefits. At least two people per office, three days a week.
Times the number of offices all over the country.

[Yawn...like Philly is the Center of the USA? I can't remember
the floor of the FCC Field Office in the Federal Building in
Chicago, IL, as it was located in 1956...other than it was
upstairs...might have been the 3rd floor, but the location
wasn't important. Several being examined for Radiotelegraph
licenses were audible QRM in the same room when I took my
Radiotelephone written test (lots of Great Lakes shipping used
"CW" then) The Chicago FCC office didn't need "lots of room
for equipment"...one paper-tape code reproducer was good enough
and the jacks for various keys didn't take up much space. Tables
and chairs for examinees was standard government-issue stuff,
tables too high and chairs uncushioned to make all uncomfortable]

[The Long Beach, CA, FCC Field Office of today is only slightly
better. Was never there for any test (didn't need to), only to
get a pile of paper for own business radio (non-amateur) cleared
away. By that time the FCC was busy, busy, busy with lots of
commercial radio and the new radio services and the rather
explosive growth of PLMRS that was opening the "high band"]

I've never met anyone from tha FCC. I saw Riley at Dayton. Ed Hare,
too, but I don't confuse the ARRL for the FCC like lotsa hams do.

Then add the FCC folks who revised the exams, duplicated them, and
distributed them to the various offices all over the country. And the
cost of doing all that.

[Apparently Miccolis thinks ALL the FCC does is to regulate
amateur radio?!? He is blissfully UNaware of the fantastic
growth of ALL radio services in the last half century. He still
won't acknowledge the COLEM

There's a famous ARS VEC who is also COLEM. They had me take sumptin
that looked surprisingly like an Amateur Advanced exam, then I got a
GROL in the mail.

(who do privatized testing of non-
amateur radio operator licenses) nor of the privatized PLMRS
frequency coordinators nor of the fact of reduced paperwork and
licensing of the private maritime radio users (Long Beach is at
the heart of the maritime import-export top harbor and in the
center of dozens of large marinas). The FCC is concerned with
regulation of ALL US civil radio services, not just amateur.]

I don't think they realize that.

Maybe next
time you'll be able to cut and paste something germane to the subject.

The subject was the reduction in license requirements by FCC giving
over the testing to VEs.

Nope. I twas the creation of the Conditional License.

Miccolis did his misdirection thing, then attempted to impose
'lawn order' by saying HE was 'judge' over what was being
discussed. Gotta love it. He's been doing that for years...
and manages to get away with it. :-)

We're on to it....

Then he gets caught and he bleats, "Show me where? Provide
the posting!" He has been "hurt" or maybe "insulted" when
folks disagree with him, poor guy.

Only Jim can feel strongly about the ARS.

Eliminating Element 1 will not save the FCC any expense. Keeping it
will not cost them anything, either. Maybe that's why it's taking them
so long.

Maybe. But they didn't even make the effort to define Morse Code in
the rules for the last 3 R&Os.

Why should they? Is there any doubt?

There appears to be. The ARRL VEC and other VECs are giving el 1 exams
at 13-15WPM when Part 97 says 5WPM.

"It's for newcomers' own good" is probably the morsemen's only
good-enough answer.

That's exactly what they say. "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

Ultimately, they've confused a "Learning Method" with a REGULATORY
requirement.

Yawn...keep on with 1906 thinking in 2006,
morse code uber alles...blah, blah, blah...

200 Meters and Down.

Yet they tell you that the exam myst be
5WPM, and you've got all these VEs getting to define what that means.

It's not a problem to anyone with common sense.

It appears to be a violation of Part 97.

It's a grey area in LEGAL terms. The WORD RATE is not
specifically defined in Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R., and only
"assumed." FCC's Definitions cite the old CCITT-ITU Telegram
regulation as to coding and bit and length spacings. That
referenced International Telegram Standard doesn't
specifically define WORD RATE either.

Apparently the FCC gave the VEC Council written permission
to do characters at the higher rate, keeping the 'word rate'
at 5 words per minute. A problem is that this specific
"permission" has NOT made it into the (radio regulation)
LAW document yet. That makes it the "grey area" in legal
terms since it can be argued both ways.

REAL attorneys can comment on whether or not I am "mistaken."
Miccolis hasn't been admitted to a Legal Bar Association
yet and is unqualified to comment on law. But, he WILL
comment on that AS IF he IS the law...("truth, justice,
and the American way" spoken by SuperHam)

Booo.

It's important to deny access to prospective amateurs based upon
something so ill defined. "Keeps the riff-raff out."

Happy Halloween, Brian.



Happy, happy, Len. Rained cats and dogs all day, drizzled during the
trick or treat period.

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.

Always a kind word for our armed forced...

Armed forced?

Must you put on your stupid face? Can't you take a typo?

Our military isn't perfect. Many of those who enlist aren't all that
sharp. Most are shoved into a career field in which they have no
interest. Most aren't going to make the military a career.

You must be remembering the draft years when, even though the Air Force
didn't use the draft, the draft generated a significant interest in Air
Force service.

Some are
lucky enough to have skills obtained prior to military service. Some of
those are fortunate enough to serve in a field in which they have some
expertise or interest.

Some with grave disappointment that they couldn't be hams in particular
combat zones.

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.

Lackland. San Antonio.

Yes, Lackland AFB is in San Antonio. Amarillo AFB was in Amarillo.
That's where I went through basic training. Amarillo. Amarillo.

I see. Wikipedia confirms Amarillo AFB as an inprocessing base.

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

I have no idea of what you mean, Brian.

Stories about the military.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.
Oracle uses a lot of code.


Is Oracle an Extra? What's his call?

Oracle is a business which didn't give up on code.

Dave K8MN

Bill Gates has an answer for your Oracle.

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Tues, Oct 31 2006 4:17 am

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
[ etc., etc., etc.... :-) ]


Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
license.
You mean the Technician? If so, they are a considerable amount less
than half.
40% is more like it.
49.5% according to your very own postings.
You are mistaken, Brian.
No, I'm not.

Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
License.

No, Brian, they are not. It has been explained to you.

I just don't get it.

I'm aware of that.


Dave K8MN

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?
I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.
Always a kind word for our armed forced...
Armed forced?

Must you put on your stupid face? Can't you take a typo?

I didn't write it. You did.

Our military isn't perfect. Many of those who enlist aren't all that
sharp. Most are shoved into a career field in which they have no
interest. Most aren't going to make the military a career.

You must be remembering the draft years when, even though the Air Force
didn't use the draft, the draft generated a significant interest in Air
Force service.

....but one had to at least be a high school graduate to enter the Air
Force. That didn't mean that everyone who entered the Air Force was
particularly bright or had prior experience in a field related to an Air
Force career field. Of those who *were* bright and experienced in a
field, there was no guarantee that they'd be placed in an AFSC related
to their experience. A member of my basic training flight had some
medical school. He became a Security Policeman. A fellow with
electronics skills was made a cook.

Some are
lucky enough to have skills obtained prior to military service. Some of
those are fortunate enough to serve in a field in which they have some
expertise or interest.

Some with grave disappointment that they couldn't be hams in particular
combat zones.

I don't know anyone who experienced "grave disappointment" or anyone who
has written anything like that.

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.
Lackland. San Antonio.

Yes, Lackland AFB is in San Antonio. Amarillo AFB was in Amarillo.
That's where I went through basic training. Amarillo. Amarillo.

I see. Wikipedia confirms Amarillo AFB as an inprocessing base.

I knew it without consulting Wikipedia. If I'd meant "Lackland", I'd
have written "Lackland".

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

I have no idea of what you mean, Brian.

Stories about the military.

So you're asking if I caught stories about the military?

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.
Oracle uses a lot of code.

Is Oracle an Extra? What's his call?

Oracle is a business which didn't give up on code.

Bill Gates has an answer for your Oracle.

Bill Gates never gave up on code either.

Dave K8MN

wrote:
From: on Tues, Oct 31 2006 4:17 am

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

[ etc., etc., etc.... :-) ]


Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
license.
You mean the Technician? If so, they are a considerable amount less
than half.
40% is more like it.
49.5% according to your very own postings.
You are mistaken, Brian.
No, I'm not.

The Technician license does not make up 49.5% of US hams. The total of
Technicians and Technician Pluses reaches about that level. (All
Technician Pluses are Morse Code tested).
The FCC did away with the Technician Plus class of license. They are
all Technicians now. The Technician license has no requirement for a
code exam. Should a Technician wish to use what were once Technician
Plus priveleges, they're on their own to show eligibility.

Miccolis can't seem to understand the LAW. No matter how
often it is explained to him, he falls back on the Speroni
'definition' of 'What Technicians Are.' Of course, AH0A
is a PCTA morseman of unchangeable ideas.

The LAW? There is more than one variety of "Technician". Jim provided
you fact. You've set out to distort it. You are a non-radio amateur
with unchangeable ideas.

Miccolis also insisted that ENIAC was "the first electronic
computer" because he got brainwashed by Moore School PR,
being in eastern PA. Funny thing, but the LAW was decided
in the early 1970s by a Federal Court trial and the Atanasof-
Berry Computer of 1939-1942 was declared "first."

The plain and simple fact is that Anderson was incorrect (again).

A quarter-million-mile distance was in all the newspapers
since the Apollo Program began. Perhaps he thinks only
astronomers read newspapers? :-)

I wouldn't want to get my Keplarian data from the newspapers.
The distance from the earth to the moon varies greatly.


Len claims to be a "PROFESSIONAL in radio-electronics" (whatever that
is) but he messes up on the length of an antenna for a radio service he
has claimed to use.
How can you be sure?

Tsk. Miccolis is hell-bent on character-assassination lately.

He's got you between Iraq and a hard place, Leonard. You'd have to have
some character other than the one you've displayed here for better than
a decade. That hasn't happened.

I make a typo in a message and he makes it into a HEADLINE
STORY charging some kind of ineptitude! :-)

A headline story? It didn't make my paper.

Not only that, his Waffen SS buddie has to chime in like it
is a capital offense! :-)

I don't think it was that bad, Len. It was simply exhibited
carelessness and inaccuracy on your part.


The same point that you and W3RV are making when you kick around SSB vs
CW in your field day and other scores. Why is it that comparing scores
is only something that you can do?

He has declared himself Ultimate Authority, therefore 'judge.'

The sponsoring organization is the Ultimate Authority, Len. You've made
another factual error.


The Morsemen

Who are they?

There used to be four of them...

The "Four Morsemen of the Apocalypse." :-)

Jim came up with a definition for "morsemen". I rather liked it.



I just don't see anyone using CWGet to operate a contest - even though
they could. Heck *you* could. Why don't you?

I don't enjoy morse code.

We can only, repeat ONLY, "see" what Miccolis sees. All else
is a 'mistake.'

The idea was Brian's. I'm wondering why he'd suggest such a thing if he
doesn't enjoy using Morse Code?



Why? The Conditional and its predecessor Class C go back to before the
FCC.
So there's a long, long tradition in the dumbing down of the amateur
radio service.

By all those olde-tyme morsemen REFUSING to allow modernization
of the US amateur radio service in going to, and trying out NEW
modes, methods, and lobbying for UPDATING the ARS regulations.

Don't worry about it, old timer. After all, you aren't a part of
amateur radio.

BTW, Miccolis hasn't existed since AFTER the end of WW II, let
alone the creation of the FCC in 1934...but he is "knowledgeable"
by "experience" of all those old pioneers (in his heart he knows
he is 'right').

Did you mean that he has existed only after the end of World War II?
If you did, it wasn't what you wrote, PROFESSIONAL writer.

Miccolis hadn't learned to read yet when the amateur SSB boom
began...over two decades AFTER the commercial and military
radio world had begun using SSB for long-haul HF comms.

It'll likely even out, Len. He'll be here after you're gone.

He
has NO direct experience to the radio world of the 1950s
except in some juvenile way. He wasn't working for a living
among amateurs who were divided about the SSB issues nor was
he party to some of those amateurs' (of long standing then)
rather abject ignorance of basic modulation concepts.

I'm sure you have a point buried there somewhere. I'm damned if I can
find it.

[John
Carson of AT&T had published the mathematical proof in 1915,
the basis of the 'phasing' concept...the rest of the radio
world accepted Carson's proof and those specializing in FM
adopted "Carson's Rule" on FM modulation index]

Irrelevant.

Miccolis never tuned up any SSB transmitter in the early 1950s
as I had to do, never QSYed one.

He can excuse his unfortunate (from your standpoint) late birth by
tuning up a few after you've departed this mortal coil.

Not on HF and sure as hell
not IN the military (he never served).

Your sentence seems to be made up of a clause. Well, super soldier, you
have no way of knowing if he served in the military or not. I'm sure
that vast quantities of licensed radio amateurs have tuned up and QSY'd
SSB transmitters more times than you. Now what?

Neither did he tune
up or QSY any RTTY of MUX TTY transmitter on HF in that time
frame. But...he "knows" all about it by reading about it in
QST and the ARRL Handbook.

What does the time frame matter in this example, Len? Are you claiming
time-in-grade or something?

Miccolis is a MORSEMAN.

Under the definition he provided, he certainly is. You are not a
morseman. You are not a radio amateur. Better than a decade after you
first appointed yourself advocate for something-or-other in amateur
radio, you are still not a partcipant. Go figure!

Those of the "CW gets through when
nothing else will" DUMBED-DOWN amateur persuasion.

That's one of your factual errors and it seems to be a deliberate one.

All they
can conceive is switching RF off and on using morse code.

There's another of your factual errors.

Methods that were used in the very first 'radios' of the
Spark Tx and 'crystal detector' era.

You've offered up another non-sentence.

On-off keying of a CW
carrier.

You write a great many non-sentences.

Wow, real "technical" and full of smarts to bang-
bang switch a carrier!

If it is so easy, why haven't you been able to obtain an amateur radio
license, Len?

Did the ARRL *ever* lobby to improve regulations for the
'new' modes in the ARS?

Yes.

Hell, the DSSS and FHSS modes were
kept hamstrung by ARS regulations into the 1990s...when the
commercial and military radio services were already using
DSSS and FHSS...DSSS being the major player in the commercial
WLAN and 'wireless' market.

Did the ARRL hamstring the modes, Len?

RTTY is still struggling along
with OLD speed limits.

Yeah and amplitude modulation is still king of the medium wave broadcast
band.

PSK31 was innovated by a Brit (Peter
Martinez) and was trial-tested in Europe for five years
before it got any publicity in US ham magazines. Non-US
hams have been using PM for extremely-weak radio comms for
years, on bands below the lowest allocated US ham bands;
the ARRL is finally getting around to 'requesting help' for
frequencies as 'low' as a small sliver just above 500 KHz,
helped get an 'experimental net' going there in this new
millennium. Wow, really 'advanced technology' there,
"exploring 'long wave' comms" with "CW."

What's it to you, Len. How are you involved? Aren't you the
self-appointed advocate for something-or-other in amateur radio.
Maybe you should go advocate.


"CW gets through when nothing else will." One of the 1930s
era MYTHS, born when hams were trying out DSB AM in days
before WW II. "CW" does NOT 'get through' better than PM
or some of the other modes, but the DUMBED-DOWN morsemen
just can't understand that. They think that OOK CW is
"smart!" 1906 thinking in the year 2006. Ptui.

Does CW outperform SSB or AM or FM under adverse circumstances, Len?

Try to stay on the subject.
I am on the subject. You're trying to change it.
If you choose to comment on somthing I say, then confine it to what I
said. If you stick with that simple concept, you'll do OK.

Brian, you KNOW Miccolis will NEVER do that. He runs off
at the keyboard into dozens of wild trips off the thread.
Mainly it is an attempt at MISDIRECTION so he won't have to
explain his own errors, mistakes, false assumptions, and
general ignorance of ALL radio, not the kind of radio that
was spoon-fed to him by ARRL publications.

I'm really curious about when you might be expected to explain your
errors, mistakes, false assumptions and general ignorance, Len.


First off, they had to have offices with test facilities. The office
they had in Philadelphia back when I took my exams was on the 10th
floor of the Custom House at 2nd and Chestnut. Lots of square feet of
prime real estate just for the exam room.
Then there was the time of the examiners, all of whom worked for FCC.
Pay and benefits. At least two people per office, three days a week.
Times the number of offices all over the country.

[Yawn...like Philly is the Center of the USA?

Philadelphia is a rather large city, Len. I don't recall Jim's having
written that it was the center of the United States. There isn't much
in the center of the United States. What does the center of the United
States have to do with the price of prime real estate in Philly?

I can't remember
the floor of the FCC Field Office in the Federal Building in
Chicago, IL, as it was located in 1956...other than it was
upstairs...might have been the 3rd floor, but the location
wasn't important.

Then why mention it? *Yawn*...like Chicago is the center of the United
States.

Several being examined for Radiotelegraph
licenses were audible QRM in the same room when I took my
Radiotelephone written test (lots of Great Lakes shipping used
"CW" then) The Chicago FCC office didn't need "lots of room
for equipment"...one paper-tape code reproducer was good enough
and the jacks for various keys didn't take up much space. Tables
and chairs for examinees was standard government-issue stuff,
tables too high and chairs uncushioned to make all uncomfortable]

Thanks for the swell description of the furniture.

[The Long Beach, CA, FCC Field Office of today is only slightly
better. Was never there for any test (didn't need to), only to
get a pile of paper for own business radio (non-amateur) cleared
away. By that time the FCC was busy, busy, busy with lots of
commercial radio and the new radio services and the rather
explosive growth of PLMRS that was opening the "high band"]

Irrelevant.


Then add the FCC folks who revised the exams, duplicated them, and
distributed them to the various offices all over the country. And the
cost of doing all that.

[Apparently Miccolis thinks ALL the FCC does is to regulate
amateur radio?!? He is blissfully UNaware of the fantastic
growth of ALL radio services in the last half century. He still
won't acknowledge the COLEM (who do privatized testing of non-
amateur radio operator licenses) nor of the privatized PLMRS
frequency coordinators nor of the fact of reduced paperwork and
licensing of the private maritime radio users (Long Beach is at
the heart of the maritime import-export top harbor and in the
center of dozens of large marinas).

Despite your diatribe, I don't believe that Jim is "UNaware", blissfully
or otherwise of the growth of other radio services.

The FCC is concerned with
regulation of ALL US civil radio services, not just amateur.]

That's a masterful restatement of the obvious.


Maybe next
time you'll be able to cut and paste something germane to the subject.
The subject was the reduction in license requirements by FCC giving
over the testing to VEs.
Nope. I twas the creation of the Conditional License.

According to the subject line, it is "What is the ARRL's thought on
having good amateurs".

Miccolis did his misdirection thing, then attempted to impose
'lawn order' by saying HE was 'judge' over what was being
discussed. Gotta love it. He's been doing that for years...
and manages to get away with it. :-)

If you could only see yourself as others see you, Leonard H. Anderson.

Then he gets caught and he bleats, "Show me where? Provide
the posting!" He has been "hurt" or maybe "insulted" when
folks disagree with him, poor guy.

You don't seem to be able to provide proof for many of your statements.
Brian Burke takes great liberties with the truth in quoting others.

Dave K8MN

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Half of all USA licensed amateurs are licensed under a Code-Free
license.

You mean the Technician? If so, they are a considerable amount less
than half.

40% is more like it.

49.5% according to your very own postings.

You are mistaken, Brian.

No, I'm not.

Yes, you are, Brian. You just won't admit it.

The Technician license does not make up 49.5% of US hams. The total of
Technicians and Technician Pluses reaches about that level. (All
Technician Pluses are Morse Code tested).

The FCC did away with the Technician Plus class of license.

When?

As of October 30, the number of current, unexpired FCC issued amateur
radio licenses was:

Novice: 24,155
Technician: 287,293
Technician Plus: 34,851
General: 131,966
Advanced: 70,602
Extra: 108,545

Total 657,412.

FCC still counts Technician Plus separately from Technician.

The current number of Technicians amounts to 43.7006017...% of the
total. That's not half. Some of them are code-tested, too.

They are all Technicians now.

That is an untruth.

FCC still counts Technician Plus separately from Technician. The number
of Technician Plus licenses is shrinking as Technician Pluses are
renewed as Technician, expire, or upgrade.

The Technician license has no requirement for a
code exam.

Yet some Technicians have passed a Morse Code test, and have some HF
privileges.

Should a Technician wish to use what were once Technician
Plus priveleges, they're on their own to show eligibility.

Which requires that they retain a document showing their qualification.
Like keeping a copy of their old Technician Plus license.

However, that's not the point. FCC still counts Technician Plus
separately from Technician. The number of Technician Plus licenses is
shrinking as Technician Pluses are renewed as Technician, expire, or
upgrade.

In addition, many hams whose licenses say "Technician" are code tested
and have some HF privileges. These include:

- all Tech Pluses who have renewed since April 15, 2000
- all Novices who have upgraded to Technician
- all Technicians who have passed Element 1, but not the written exam
for General

Welp, that's something we'll just have to live with. It's also the
reason I upgraded to General.

Bully for you.

btw, no US amateur radio license is "code-free". All of them can use
Morse Code.

And they can all use CWGet.

But they don't.

Probably most of the coded licensees never looked back when
they learned the code to get past a licensing hurdle, don't use code,
and couldn't if their lives depended on it.

That's not a given at all.

I would expect you to say something like that.

Remember the ARRL survey that was debated so much here?

The one where as a member, I did not receive a ballot?

The one that Mike Deignan characterized as "substantive?"

Yes, I recall the survey. Looked as if it had been developed by a
bunch of dems hoping to influence the outcome of an election.

You mean like this:

http://www.rawstory.com/showoutartic...s/15869924.htm

btw, next Tuesday I get to choose between Curt Weldon and Joe Sestak.
Which do you think I should vote for?

Who did you vote for last time?

Doesn't matter. The choice last time wasn't the same, anyway.

Which candidate do you think I should vote for?

It showed that
less than 40% of those hams who were asked never used Morse Code. And
it included licensees from all license classes, not just those who had
passed code tests.

Add to that those who rarely used code.

Why?

Even if someone rarely uses it, that means they still remember it and
can use it at some level.

It means they don't like it and they have to struggle through it.

Not necessarily.

An amateur could "rarely" use Morse Code because they "rarely" get on
the air. Or because they use some other mode a lot more.

It
means they are perfect candidates for CWGet.

So?

Sure there are those who learned just enough to pass the Morse Code
test and then never used it - just as there are those who just enough
to pass the *written* tests and then never used it

Heck, your buddy Len couldn't even get the length of a 73 MHz
quarter-wave whip antenna right, and he's a "PROFESSIONAL"!

And you couldn't even get the distance to the moon,

You are mistaken.

Right.

Glad to see you admit your mistake.

So put all USA licensed amateurs in fron of a station equipped with a
morse code key and with CWGet and total their scores.

I presume you mean "contest scores"

Why?

Why not? They're operating in a CW Contest. Why wouldn't you total
their scores?

What's the point?

The same point that you and W3RV are making when you kick around SSB vs
CW in your field day and other scores.

What point is that?

W3RV and I actually participate in Field Day, and actually make the
scores we claim. The QSOs are real.

Why is it that comparing scores is only something that you can do?

You can compare scores all you want. How many points did you make in
last year's Field Day?

Who is going to set up and pay for all those stations? What sort of
stations would they be - HF, VHF, UHF? What sort of antennas, rigs,
computers?

Think about it.

I did. That's why I'm asking the question.

Do you think the taxpayers should subsidize amateur radio stations?

Who sets up your field day station? Who pays for it?

Depends on whether I'm operating solo, or as part of a group.

The Morsemen

Who are they?

There used to be four of them...

can bandy about the CQ WW and Field Day CW vs SSB contest
scores all they want without having to standardize station equipment.
I bring up a scenario and NOW station equipment must be standardized.

Who said anything about standardizing station equipment? Not me.

Yes, you. You!

That's another untruth. Show where I said that - I don't think you can.

I simply want to know where all those stations are supposed to come
from.

Where do stations come from now?

Don't you know?

Any ham who wants to operate Morse Code using CWGet or some other
software can do so right now - if they have a station that includes
rig, antenna, and computer.

Yep. I can finally agree with something you said.

So a version of the experiment you describe can happen in every
contest. But it doesn't.

Many, many, many amateur just aren't interested in morse code, and
many, many, many amateurs just aren't interested in contests.

Then your experiment won't happen.

But if we were able to have have 100% participation and every amateur
were offered a manual morse code key and a downloaded copy of CWGet....

Offered by whom? Who would pay for those things and set them up? How
would you get 100% participation?

Yet I don't know of any amateur radio contesters who operate that way.
Do you?

Nobody knew of anyone who operated amateur radio as in Larry Rolls
"Only CW can save the situation" but I NEVER ONCE saw your objection to
it.

So what? I don't read everything written to rrap. Larry hasn't posted
here in *years*.

Sure he has. He's posted as himself and he's probably posting as
someone else.

You mean "Slow Code"? That's probably WA8ULX.

I bring up a scenario and NOW you have a problems with how contestors
operate.

Not at all.

I just don't see anyone using CWGet to operate a contest - even though
they could. Heck *you* could. Why don't you?

I don't enjoy morse code.

Then what is your point?

A simple, real-world challenge. What's the problem?

The problem is that there isn't 100% participation in field day.

So?

It fails to meet the requirements of my scenario.

It's not about *your* impossible scenario.

The requirements for US amateur radio license have been slowly but
steadily reduced for more than 25 years now.

Just 25 years?

I wrote "more than 25 years".

I guess you forgot about the "Conditional" license
where hams get an upgrade from their buddy.

What does that mean?

Besides, the Conditional stopped being issued about 30 years ago.

Yep, but nobody ever claimed that amateur radio was being dumbed down.
The USA amateur service has a proud history of it.

How was it "dumbing down" to eliminate the Conditional?

Jeez you're thick.

No, Brian, I'm not "thick". You just did a poor job of explaining.

No, you vectored off when it was clear that the creation of the
Conditional Class license using the "buddy-system" of testing was the
original dumbing down of the ARS.

Another untruth by you.

Why was the creation of the Conditional a "dumbing down"? It had the
same test requirements as General.

It was dumbing down to create such a license class.

Why? The Conditional and its predecessor Class C go back to before the
FCC.

So there's a long, long tradition in the dumbing down of the amateur
radio service.

Why was it a "dumbing down"?

Not just the code tests
but also the writtens. That's not the fault of those taking the tests.

No, of course not. It's not anyones fault except the FCC that they put
offices so far away from ham's residences.

??

The reason FCC stopped doing testing was to save money.

It doesn't cost the FCC anything for an amateur to show up for testing,
unless you want to claim that the examinees got to file a voucher for
their travel.

Actually it cost FCC a lot of money to do testing.

It was the travel distance that was key in the creation of the
Conditional license, not the desire for the FCC to save money.

I was writing about the reason the FCC stopped doing license testing
for *all* license classes. That's part of the reduction in
requirements.

Then you strayed off the subject.

Another untruth.

Try to stay on the subject.

I am on the subject. You're trying to change it.

If you choose to comment on somthing I say, then confine it to what I
said.

Why? You're not the moderator.

Besides, you don't confine your comments to what someone else said. Why
should others confine their comments to what you said?

If you stick with that simple concept, you'll do OK.

First off, they had to have offices with test facilities. The office
they had in Philadelphia back when I took my exams was on the 10th
floor of the Custom House at 2nd and Chestnut. Lots of square feet of
prime real estate just for the exam room.

Then there was the time of the examiners, all of whom worked for FCC.
Pay and benefits. At least two people per office, three days a week.
Times the number of offices all over the country.

Then add the FCC folks who revised the exams, duplicated them, and
distributed them to the various offices all over the country. And the
cost of doing all that.

The VE system eliminated all that expense. All FCC has to do now wrt
amateur license testing is to look over the QPC submissions and approve
them. And occasionally retest somebody.

That's all wunnerful, but you vectored off of the subject.

Nope.

Maybe next
time you'll be able to cut and paste something germane to the subject.

The subject was the reduction in license requirements by FCC giving
over the testing to VEs.

Nope. I twas the creation of the Conditional License.

Why was that a "dumbing down"?

Eliminating Element 1 will not save the FCC any expense. Keeping it
will not cost them anything, either. Maybe that's why it's taking them
so long.

Maybe. But they didn't even make the effort to define Morse Code in
the rules for the last 3 R&Os.

Why should they? Is there any doubt?

There appears to be. The ARRL VEC and other VECs are giving el 1 exams
at 13-15WPM when Part 97 says 5WPM.

The Morse Code test consists of 5 minutes of Morse Code. How many words
are in those tests?

At 5 wpm, there would be 25
At 13 wpm, there would be 65
At 15 wpm, there would be 75

(A word is 5 characters)


Yet they tell you that the exam myst be
5WPM, and you've got all these VEs getting to define what that means.

It's not a problem to anyone with common sense.

It appears to be a violation of Part 97.

Only to someone without common sense.

They replaced
their paid examiners with unpaid volunteers.

Good thing there wasn't a union.

Why?

Are you anti-union?

No. Are you?

Do you favor scabs?

Bandages are better.

It's basic knowledge, pure and simple. Most of the people I know don't use
any of the theory either but it is part of the basic knowledge set. I've
used ohm's law only a couple of times in the 14 years I've been licensed.
I've used the dipole equation half a dozen times. I've never used smith
charts. One could get by without the theory but having learned it, I can
choose where I want to focus my attention in amateur ration.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, you have a Ham Husband to take care of the Ohm's Law and Theory
end of your station, so it's no wonder you have no real use for it..

Brian, do you think that using a false sexist claim is somehow going to
cause you to win the debate?

No false sexist claim.

It's a sexist claim to assume that Dee's husband takes care of the
Ohm's Law and Theory
end of her station

Why? She said she hardly, if ever, used it. Somebody's got to be
doing it?

You're presuming she's not doing what needs to be done, and is
dependent on someone else to deal with the theory. I don't think that's
the case at all.

If I considered your opinion to be wrong, do I get to call you a liar?

Why would you do that?

Have I ever called *anyone* here a liar?

You're making that up, right?

I'm asking a question.

Have I ever called *anyone* here a liar?

W3RV uses his sister to put up antennas for him
these days.

That's an untruth.

Where do you get that idea?

Hmmm?

I've put up antennas with W3RV. Or rather, I helped out a little, since
he had it all worked out on his own. No sisters involved.

He does know quite a lot about antennas, particularly the practical
side. He even knows that a quarter wave at 73 MHz is a lot longer than
three and one quarter inches....

Prolly for illegal operation. He has no authorization in that area.

Actually, he does. Part 95 remote control, same as your buddy Len. And
everybody else.

Part 95 requires no authorization, so he doesn't.

Incorrect. Part 95 authorizes everyone, as long as they meet the
requirements.

And knowing his
background, he'd probably violate the Part 95 rules.

Why?

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?
I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.
Always a kind word for our armed forced...
Armed forced?

Must you put on your stupid face? Can't you take a typo?

I didn't write it. You did.

Correct. I made a typo. You chose to trip over it. You pretend to be
stupid and not understand. Too bad for you.

Our military isn't perfect. Many of those who enlist aren't all that
sharp. Most are shoved into a career field in which they have no
interest. Most aren't going to make the military a career.

You must be remembering the draft years when, even though the Air Force
didn't use the draft, the draft generated a significant interest in Air
Force service.

...but one had to at least be a high school graduate to enter the Air
Force. That didn't mean that everyone who entered the Air Force was
particularly bright or had prior experience in a field related to an Air
Force career field. Of those who *were* bright and experienced in a
field, there was no guarantee that they'd be placed in an AFSC related
to their experience. A member of my basic training flight had some
medical school. He became a Security Policeman. A fellow with
electronics skills was made a cook.

They call that "Air Force needs..."

The AF needs SPs and Cooks, too, or didn't you know that?

Some are
lucky enough to have skills obtained prior to military service. Some of
those are fortunate enough to serve in a field in which they have some
expertise or interest.

Some with grave disappointment that they couldn't be hams in particular
combat zones.

I don't know anyone who experienced "grave disappointment" or anyone who
has written anything like that.

I guess others know you better than you know yourself.

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.
Lackland. San Antonio.

Yes, Lackland AFB is in San Antonio. Amarillo AFB was in Amarillo.
That's where I went through basic training. Amarillo. Amarillo.

I see. Wikipedia confirms Amarillo AFB as an inprocessing base.

I knew it without consulting Wikipedia. If I'd meant "Lackland", I'd
have written "Lackland".

Yet you place punctuation outside of parenthesis as if you were writing
code for a machine instead of writing language for a person. You need
to work on your interpersonal communications skills.

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

I have no idea of what you mean, Brian.

Stories about the military.

So you're asking if I caught stories about the military?

There's that stupid face again.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.
Oracle uses a lot of code.

Is Oracle an Extra? What's his call?

Oracle is a business which didn't give up on code.

Bill Gates has an answer for your Oracle.

Bill Gates never gave up on code either.

Dave K8MN

He punctuates correctly. See where it got him?

"One Hung Low" wrote in message
. net...


Would you care to share that with the rest of us? C'mon, spill the beans.
We're dying to know if "slow" even has a license. :-)

The Magic 8 Ball say's "No Way" .
Ace - WH2T