John Smith I wrote:
Stefan Wolfe wrote:
... ... So true, Ms. Kott...


Let's demand Ms. Kott learn to do calligraphy, make handmade parchment
and operate an old franklin press, before we license her to be a mag's
editor!

"Let's", "we license"? Are you involved in those things, "John"? Is
there a licensing requirement for magazine editors?

Many things in this country have been totally dumbed down. Ms. Kott is
right on the mark. Amateur radio has been being dumbed down over the
past decade or two.

Then let's see how she feels about "dumbing down."

How do you feel about it? Do you generally find that things are better
after the amount of knowledge required to participate has been reduced?

Have you noticed how much better pro basketball has become now that
traveling is not called?

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
...
"Let's", "we license"? Are you involved in those things, "John"? Is
there a licensing requirement for magazine editors?
...

Exactly my point. The last time amateurs made any advances or performed
meaningful contributions to radio was decades ago ...

Why even bother licensing a bunch of appliance operators engaging in a
well established hobby?

Regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
...
"Let's", "we license"? Are you involved in those things, "John"? Is
there a licensing requirement for magazine editors?
...

Exactly my point.

Your point was that you aren't involved in licensing magazine editors?

The last time amateurs made any advances or performed
meaningful contributions to radio was decades ago ...

That's your view and you're stuck with it.

Why even bother licensing a bunch of appliance operators engaging in a
well established hobby?

If you have to ask the question, it is apparent that you don't know the
answer.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
...
If you have to ask the question, it is apparent that you don't know the
answer.

Dave K8MN

Dave:

I know the answers to all which has gone on here ...

The point is some who are under-achievers have established a class
system. They have sold the un-technical-minded that a ham ticket is the
equivalent of a doctorate degree. Strangely, this class system ended up
centered around CW (the one non-technical aspect of electronics
(actually, has almost nothing to do with radio communications in its'
present state and, indeed, having more to do with 'other skills.') They
and others wish to keep amateur radio what it is today, a good old boys
club who like the peace and quiet of the bands.

New comers will be a "burden." They will need to be brought up to speed
(elmered if you like.) They will make mistakes, they will think they
know it all (but some here already do that!) and have to learn new
things, it will tax the patience of even saintly men and women. The FCC
will finally have to start making sure sane rules are enforced for a
larger population.

Amateur Radio is about to undergo a face lift and a painful rebirth into
the new millennium ... These are truly exciting times to live in.

Regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
...
If you have to ask the question, it is apparent that you don't know
the answer.

Dave K8MN

Dave:

I know the answers to all which has gone on here ...

It is readily apparent from what you've written below that you do not know.

The point is some who are under-achievers have established a class
system.

That's incorrect, "John". The under-achievers are those who want the
testing dumbed-down. Those who can, do. Those who can't, whine.

They have sold the un-technical-minded that a ham ticket is the
equivalent of a doctorate degree.

I know of not a single individual who has made such a statement. You
and Len Anderson seem to believe that there are folks who have stated
such. Neither of you has documented your claim.

Strangely, this class system ended up
centered around CW (the one non-technical aspect of electronics
(actually, has almost nothing to do with radio communications in its'
present state and, indeed, having more to do with 'other skills.')


There has been no class system centered around CW. The FCC implemented
Incentive Licensing back in the late 1960's. One class of license--the
Advanced--had no additional CW test over the General Class license. Only
the Amateur Extra had an increase in CW speed as an additional test.
Each class of licensing has increased theory and regulatory knowledge
required.

They
and others wish to keep amateur radio what it is today, a good old boys
club who like the peace and quiet of the bands.

I disagree. The Good Old Boys will be the new entrants, those
underachievers who could not be bothered to pass the previous exams.
The bands are not now peaceful and quiet. Anyone who says otherwise
isn't active on the air.

New comers will be a "burden." They will need to be brought up to speed
(elmered if you like.) They will make mistakes, they will think they
know it all (but some here already do that!) and have to learn new
things, it will tax the patience of even saintly men and women.

Newcomers have always been a burden. They have always needed to be
brought up to speed. They have always made mistakes and there have
always been those who think they know it all. They have all had to
learn new things and they have always taxed the patience of some.
Newcomers of the past have been better prepared than newcomers of the
future. Newcomers of today will be better prepared than newcomers of
tomorrow. That is the direction of the country and that is the
direction amateur radio is taking.

The FCC
will finally have to start making sure sane rules are enforced for a
larger population.

The FCC long ago abrogated its duty to enforce the regulations in the
amateur bands. Riley Hollingsworth has taken steps to try to reverse
that, but he doesn't have the staff to enforce the regs.

Amateur Radio is about to undergo a face lift and a painful rebirth into
the new millennium ... These are truly exciting times to live in.

Vietnam was exciting. It wasn't necessarily pleasant.

The amateur bands will, for the foreseeable future, be much as they have
been for decades. The same analog modes will predominate. We've seen
an increase in some phone segments of some bands as re-farming of the
old Novice bands has taken place. The dumbing-down of HF licensing has
begun and there is already pressure to further dumb-down the written exams.

The real pressure will be on the phone bands. Those of us who favor CW
will see little change.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
...

The "greatness" you "hint" of simply does not exist anymore, amateur
radios' day has come and gone, I think it needs a revival, and that may
not even be possible, and if so, we need to face up to that too and dump
amateur radio. The expense and trouble is simply not worth it to keep
it alive for such a few to benefit from. We need thousands of new
licenses, tens-of-thousands really.

To the old timers (and yes, I am 54, I just refuse to act 54!, dern it!)
change is a frightening thing, let's face it, only babies like a change
and they cry then!

The number of amateur tickets reflect that the "service" (more like
hobby) is near death. The internet is a much better form of
communication and satellites are a much better form of signal
transmission, and much more dependable.

I don't like communication with "old fart hams" who key down for 15
minutes telling me all about themselves, their illness(s), their
likes/dislikes and how things used to be in the early 1900's; and, mind
you, I AM 54 YEARS OLD!, just imagine how all this sounds to preteens,
teens and 20-50 year old "newbies" looking for a hobby!

It is time to hand the reins to a much younger generation of hams who
must now mold it into something usable and desirable to them, what has
gone before, what was in vogue before, what was popular before, what
seemed important before--is no more ...

What has existed before will be no more ...

But, that is only one mans' opinion, time will tell now.

Regards,
JS

"John Smith I" wrote:

Amateur Radio is about to undergo a face lift and a painful rebirth into
the new millennium ... These are truly exciting times to live in.

That's what people said when the FCC did the 2000 restructuring.

Guess what? No effect.

11k amateurs added between '00 and April '03. Since April '03, ARS has lost
32k amateurs.


This latest change will have about as much effect -- a fizzle -- because
when push comes to shove, the 5wpm code test did not represent a significant
barrier to entry to amateur radio, despite what the No-Code Agenda would
like you to believe.

"Dave Heil" wrote:

The real pressure will be on the phone bands. Those of us who favor CW
will see little change.

I disagree. Now that the code test has been eliminated from amateur radio,
it is my belief that members of the No-Code Agenda will start to attack the
mode itself -- attempt to gather support to re-farm code and other non-voice
mode allocations into voice.

The level of hatred and vitriol from that side of the aisle is quite
staggering, IMO. Not only hatred of the mode itself, but hatred of the
people who support it and like to use it. In my mind, it is a very
disturbing mindset, and only promises to be more divisive in the short (and
long) term.

I'm sure there are some LIDs who still rail on codeless techs. However, in
my travels on HF and VHF, I have to say I've found very, very few who I
would categorize as such. Most of the caustic comments I find are from
codeless techs or slowcode licensees.

73
KH6HZ

KH6HZ wrote:
...
I disagree. Now that the code test has been eliminated from amateur radio,
it is my belief that members of the No-Code Agenda will start to attack the
mode itself -- attempt to gather support to re-farm code and other non-voice
mode allocations into voice.
...

I agree. Let the bands now be allocated by use. If phone requires a
larger segment, it goes there, if CW it goes there, if video/digital
voice it goes there.

Who still rides a horse on the freeway?

Regards,
JS

KH6HZ wrote:
"John Smith I" wrote:

Amateur Radio is about to undergo a face lift and a painful rebirth into
the new millennium ... These are truly exciting times to live in.

That's what people said when the FCC did the 2000 restructuring.

Guess what? No effect.

11k amateurs added between '00 and April '03. Since April '03, ARS has lost
32k amateurs.

...

Like I say, because of past policy and the "damn the bands but save CW!"
crowd, it may be too late to save amateur radio ...

However, one thing is for REAL sure, hams will continue dieing off like
flies--whether we can attract newbies to swell past numbers is the
question of the hour.

One bright light in all this, some of my students will now go for their
license. All colleges now need a program to make amateur radio known to
their students, high schools are not too young to start with ...

Regards,
JS