"Bob Brock" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jan 2007 13:11:46 -0800, "
wrote:


Not at all, John, you be wrong there. ARRL has periodical and
publication racks on the floors of HRO and Radio Shack and
other stores to catch all eyes.

Not really trying to change the subject, but I went to the local
bookstore and two Radio Shacks trying to get a copy of the General
Class Study manual. Both Radio Shacks said that they no longer carry
the study guides. So, I opted to download the questions and answers
from the net for free and give that a shot.

Did two Radio Shack managers lie to me? Has anyone seen the ARRL
study guides? I didn't even see any of the "Now Your's Talking" books
at the local stores.

Radio Shack has basically gotten out of amateur radio. I haven't seen any
study guides there for a couple of years. Sometimes you can get them at
Barnes & Noble but you have to special order. In that case one might as
well order directly off the ARRL website.

The Technician license manual is no longer called "Now You're Talking". I
don't recall the new name.

Dee, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote:

Radio Shack has basically gotten out of amateur radio. I haven't
seen any study guides there for a couple of years.

Me either. Radio Shack is pretty much cheaply-made, overpriced consumer
electronics these days. I go in there sparingly, it seems every 6 months
their focus seems to change. I think the last radio shack I went into had
50-75% of the store's floor space devoted to various cell phone accessories.

If any of them have ham radio manuals laying around, it is probably old
stock they haven't sold.

I believe for most people, the only viable option for buying a study guide
would be thru the ARRL or one of the other online sources, like W5YI.

73
kh6hz

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..

"Bob Brock" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jan 2007 13:11:46 -0800, "
wrote:


Not at all, John, you be wrong there. ARRL has periodical and
publication racks on the floors of HRO and Radio Shack and
other stores to catch all eyes.

Not really trying to change the subject, but I went to the local
bookstore and two Radio Shacks trying to get a copy of the General
Class Study manual. Both Radio Shacks said that they no longer carry
the study guides. So, I opted to download the questions and answers
from the net for free and give that a shot.

Did two Radio Shack managers lie to me? Has anyone seen the ARRL
study guides? I didn't even see any of the "Now Your's Talking" books
at the local stores.

Radio Shack has basically gotten out of amateur radio. I haven't seen any
study guides there for a couple of years. Sometimes you can get them at
Barnes & Noble but you have to special order. In that case one might as
well order directly off the ARRL website.

The Technician license manual is no longer called "Now You're Talking". I
don't recall the new name.

Right. Radio Shack pimps the hot products for the moment. The way I see
it, them not even carrying license manuals speaks volumes about demand for
them. Now, when you walk into a Radio Shack and see loads of HF antennas,
HF rigs, and a shelf of study guides; then you can say that Ham radio is
back in demand.

So, to bring this back on topic. I wonder if the intent of the average ham
is to make ham radio grow or to maintain a stale status quo? The way I see
it, a steady increase in qualified hams is a good thing. Ham radio needs a
good infusion of new blood and the no-code tech license as a good start.
However, it was only the beginning.

"KH6HZ" wrote in message
...
"Dee Flint" wrote:

Radio Shack has basically gotten out of amateur radio. I haven't
seen any study guides there for a couple of years.

Me either. Radio Shack is pretty much cheaply-made, overpriced consumer
electronics these days. I go in there sparingly, it seems every 6 months
their focus seems to change. I think the last radio shack I went into had
50-75% of the store's floor space devoted to various cell phone
accessories.

If any of them have ham radio manuals laying around, it is probably old
stock they haven't sold.

I believe for most people, the only viable option for buying a study guide
would be thru the ARRL or one of the other online sources, like W5YI.

That says a lot about the growth of ham radio doesn't it?

"Bob Brock" writes:

In response to "Dee Flint" :

Right. Radio Shack pimps the hot products for the moment. The way I see
it, them not even carrying license manuals speaks volumes about demand for
them. Now, when you walk into a Radio Shack and see loads of HF antennas,
HF rigs, and a shelf of study guides; then you can say that Ham radio is
back in demand.

Radio Shack cannot compete with big discount houses like HRO.

Several years ago Radio Shack used to sell computers as well as stereos and
TVs. Now those product lines are all but missing from their stores. Why?
Lack of demand?

Not really. They simply cannot compete with Circuit City, Best Buy, etc. for
those products. First they don't have the floor space necessary in the
average Radio Shack to properly carry those goods, nor do they have the
economies of scale that those other mega-retailers have.


So, to bring this back on topic. I wonder if the intent of the
average ham is to make ham radio grow or to maintain a stale status quo?
The way I see it, a steady increase in qualified hams is a good thing.
Ham radio needs a good infusion of new blood and the no-code tech license
as a good start. However, it was only the beginning.

Then, Addressed to KH6HZ:
That says a lot about the growth of ham radio doesn't it?

This is the decades-old "quantity over quality" argument which has been the
crux of ham radio's incentive licensing program for the past several
decades.

Sustained growth in amateur radio is simply an unrealistic expectation.
Today, there are 650k licensed amateurs (and decreasing) with a rough
population of 300 million people.

Amateur radio cannot maintain a sustained growth in terms of raw numbers of
licensed amateurs. It simply will not happen. Even if you gave the licenses
away with no test -- walk into Radio Shack and buy a radio and start
transmitting right away -- it wouldn't happen. How many people use CB radios
today compared to, say, 20 years ago? How is the FRS doing these days in
terms of raw numbers?


Some people, I believe miguidedly so, keep focusing on the number of
licensed hams as an indicator of ham radio's health.

I believe this is an incorrect focus to take. Instead, I think people should
focus on quality over quantity. I ask myself this question:

Which would I rather have:

a) 10 guys and their wives who passed their license exams, never learned
anything else, bought some gear at HRO, and now park on a 2 meter repeater
and ragchew and make 'honey do' calls, or
b) 3 hams who took their license exams, continue to experiment with new
antennas, participate in MARS or ARES, and during emergencies help erect
antennas and provide emergency communications.

Personally, I'd rather have the 3 hams. The 10 guys and their wives are
certainly welcome, but if I had a choice, I'd take the 3 over the 10 any
day. The 3, in my opinion, help further the goals of Part 97.1 moreso than
the other 10.


Frankly, people need to stop focusing on raw numbers. 1 million licensed
hams is meaningless if they never turn on their radios and actually use the
frequencies they are allocated.


Anyway, like I said, raw numbers are impossible to sustain anyway. Ham radio
has a significant barriers to entry. It simply isn't going to have the "mass
appeal" to the population as a whole. It is a technical hobby. Life's
demands these days make it such that not many people are going to take up
ham radio.

Focusing on raw numbers is a losing proposition. Sure, you can continue to
fiddle with the licensing system, removing more and more "barriers to entry"
(aka: licensing requirements), but what is the end result? What do you do
when there ARE no more "barriers to entry" (aka: licensing requirements) and
'growth' is still negative?

The value of the ARS to the US isn't raw numbers -- it is having a trained
pool of radio operators. IMO, a trained pool of radio operators doesn't mean
you simply study, pass a test, and then you've gotten your "graduation
certificate". "Ok, I passed, don't have to study any longer". What is the
long-term value of that person, other than upping the body count, to the
ARS?


I believe (and I've stated this years ago) the focus needs to be
redirected... The ARS should strive for Quality over Quantity.

The doesn't mean make the tests "harder". No, they shouldn't require an BSEE
to pass.


Many moons ago, a few people in this forum equated morse code with a buggy
whip. Unfortunately, in today's world, it isn't morse code that is the
equivalent of a buggy whip, it is amateur radio as a whole.

73
kh6hz

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:52:16 -0500, "KH6HZ" wrote:

"Bob Brock" writes:

In response to "Dee Flint" :

Right. Radio Shack pimps the hot products for the moment. The way I see
it, them not even carrying license manuals speaks volumes about demand for
them. Now, when you walk into a Radio Shack and see loads of HF antennas,
HF rigs, and a shelf of study guides; then you can say that Ham radio is
back in demand.

Radio Shack cannot compete with big discount houses like HRO.

You must be going to the wrong Radio Shacks. I saw stereos and TV's
all over the place when I went in. In theory, Radio Shack should be
in a much better position to sell ham equipment than HRO provided they
could sell it. If you don't believe in economy of scale, look at
Wal-Mart and get back with me.

"Bob Brock" wrote:

You must be going to the wrong Radio Shacks. I saw stereos and TV's
all over the place when I went in.

The last 4 Radio Shacks I've frequented had, perhaps 2-3k of floor space.
The last one I was in was appx. 20' wide and 150' in length. There's no way
such a store could carry a wide selection of TVs, stereos, computers, ham
gear, etc.


In theory, Radio Shack should be in a much better position to sell
ham equipment than HRO provided they could sell it. If you don't
believe in economy of scale, look at Wal-Mart and get back with me.

Radio Shack isn't Walmart.

Maybe if the typical Radio Shack had the floor space of a Walmart, you might
have a point.

They do not, nor will they ever.

73
kh6hz

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:31:55 -0500, "KH6HZ" wrote:

"Bob Brock" wrote:

You must be going to the wrong Radio Shacks. I saw stereos and TV's
all over the place when I went in.

The last 4 Radio Shacks I've frequented had, perhaps 2-3k of floor space.
The last one I was in was appx. 20' wide and 150' in length. There's no way
such a store could carry a wide selection of TVs, stereos, computers, ham
gear, etc.


In theory, Radio Shack should be in a much better position to sell
ham equipment than HRO provided they could sell it. If you don't
believe in economy of scale, look at Wal-Mart and get back with me.

Radio Shack isn't Walmart.

Maybe if the typical Radio Shack had the floor space of a Walmart, you might
have a point.

Perhaps when HRO has the floor space of Radio Shack, you might have a
point.


They do not, nor will they ever.

That was my point. You just picked the wrong two companies to
compare.


73
kh6hz

KH6HZ wrote:
"Bob Brock" writes:

In response to "Dee Flint" :

Right. Radio Shack pimps the hot products for the moment. The way I see
it, them not even carrying license manuals speaks volumes about demand for
them. Now, when you walk into a Radio Shack and see loads of HF antennas,
HF rigs, and a shelf of study guides; then you can say that Ham radio is
back in demand.

Radio Shack cannot compete with big discount houses like HRO.

I disagree, Mike. Radio Shack had its roots in selling amateur
equipment when it was a Boston firm decades back. When Tandy bought it,
it in good shape. It swallowed Allied Electronics back around 1970 and
either closed or turned into Radio Shack stores, all of the Allied
retail outlets. It owns and operates Allied Electronics as an
industrial distributor. Right now the company is in search of itself.
Why would people go to Radio Shack to buy bad stereo equipment or
overpriced computers when the big box stores are selling better and
cheaper stereo equipment and computers. Radio Shack is getting out of
the parts business. If you've been into one of the outlets recently,
you'll find the sales people woefully short on product knowledge. At
the moment, RadShack is like a cellular phone store which pushes batteries.

When Radio Shack made a decision to push amateur radio gear ten or
fifteen years back, it did so mostly with Radio Shack branded equipment
which was short on features and rather shoddily made. It pushed a few
2m and 70cm FM HT's and mobile transceivers and a few niche market rigs
like the low power 10m transceivers. The sales people were, again,
woefully short on product knowledge.

If Radio decided to sell a wide variety of amateur radio equipment of
assorted brands and it gave adequate sales training to its staff, it'd
be a big player. It has a great distribution network and outlets all
over the country. It could even dedicate a store in each major market
to amateur radio sales. It could offer discount pricing and service.
Unfortunately, it has never had management who "got it". I predict the
company may end up disappearing in a few years if things stay the way
there are.

Several years ago Radio Shack used to sell computers as well as stereos and
TVs. Now those product lines are all but missing from their stores. Why?
Lack of demand?



Not really. They simply cannot compete with Circuit City, Best Buy, etc. for
those products. First they don't have the floor space necessary in the
average Radio Shack to properly carry those goods, nor do they have the
economies of scale that those other mega-retailers have.

Competition from Circuit City, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max, Walmart,
K-Mart and the like. These stores offer cheap prices compared to anything
offered by RadShack. Radio Shack could easily compete with these stores.
Only Circuit City has a large store dedicated to electronics. The
others have departments which are no larger than the average Radio Shack
store. The big box stores aren't offering ham gear and I don't think
Radio Shack could be successful in selling amateur radio gear in all of
its stores. We're still a very small consumer electronic market.

Dave K8MN

From: Bob Brock on Mon, Jan 29 2007 12:44 am

On 28 Jan 2007 13:11:46 -0800, " wrote:

Not at all, John, you be wrong there. ARRL has periodical and
publication racks on the floors of HRO and Radio Shack and
other stores to catch all eyes.

Not really trying to change the subject, but I went to the local
bookstore and two Radio Shacks trying to get a copy of the General
Class Study manual. Both Radio Shacks said that they no longer carry
the study guides. So, I opted to download the questions and answers
from the net for free and give that a shot.

Good way to go! All it cost was some time in downloading.

Did two Radio Shack managers lie to me? Has anyone seen the ARRL
study guides? I didn't even see any of the "Now Your's Talking" books
at the local stores.

Okay on those points, Bob, I agree with you. It's good
that you reminded me of the differences in location and,
perhaps, my "urban thinking." Just to get organized, I
started thinking about "radio parts" from my perspective:

I've lived in a large urban location for 50 years, one
that was once a center of aerospace technology, now
slowly lessening as more corporations opt out for
lower-taxation states. Lockheed Aircraft was one of
the first biggies to go, leaving behind a HUGE production
area that was razed and rebuilt as an enormous
shopping center (I never worked for Lockheed).
Hughes Aircraft (electronics, Hughes Tool Co. built
aircraft...) got gobbled up by larger corporations and
morphed, retaining only the logo. As a result of all that
growth and change in aerospace and electronics there is
a huge electronic-hobbyist interest around my neck of the
woods. Some of that is in amateur radio and "six-land"
has a very large population of licensed amateurs. With
all that hobby activity going on there are a large number
of retail outlets, chains and independents alike, within
relatively easy driving distance. This area is one large
incorporated city with several smaller incorporated cities
and 80+ suburbs all interconnected with streets, not
roads. Area population is somewhere in the neighborhood
of 8 million (give or take).

I don't go out to "radio stores" often. There was an HRO
outlet in a mini-mall across the major intersection where
my wife and I shop for food regularly. That HRO moved to
another part of Burbank late last year. I haven't been in
the new location but would expect it to be the same as in
the previous site and in the Van Nuys location it had been
before that. Right next to it (in the mini-mall) is a
small Radio Shack that I would go to only for replacement
watch batteries or buy some inexpensive gifts for non-
radio friends. There are two other Radio Shack outlets
in Burbank that I know of, one long-situated corner store
in its "downtown" and another in the three-story indoor
Mall less than a mile from it. Within 5 miles driving
are at least a half dozen Radio Shack stores...and about
four other electronics component stores that aren't
chained nationally...plus a couple of 'surplus' (civil,
not military) electronic outlests slightly farther away
and several telephone book pages of listings for outlets
within about 15 miles driving. For personal computers I've
got a choice of the totally awesome Fry's Electronics
consumer electronics supermarket in what was an old
Lockheed Aircraft building (they have at least 3 dozen
"checkout stands") 2 miles away and a PC Club store 3
miles away. Frys has an aisle of just components, maybe
heavy on computer-related parts but applicable to "radio"
as well. I mention that not to brag but just to describe
the local urban area where I live and have lived for 50
years.

Now, I CAN be accused of "not paying attention" to smaller
geographic locations in the USA and am "guilty" of not
"keeping up a running inventory" at each store. :-)
Mea culpa, mea culpa. But, I don't think that is a
terrible felony crime...certain others in here WILL! :-)

In rummaging through my memory, I recall that Radio
Shack had, in the past, carried ARRL publications. So
did the Electronic City store in Burbank, a store that was
there longer than I've lived in the neighboring L.A. suburb
of Sun Valley. Electronic City went to sound and video
equipment to suit the growing local business of film and
TV production, phasing out its amateur radio equipment
sales, emphasizing off-shore components suitable for all
kinds of non-radio hobby activities (those can be used
in ham radios since there isn't any difference in physics
despite the protestations of some amateur barracks
lawyers).

Yeah, I've confused the HRO contents of the old mini-mall
location with its former next-door neighbor, the little
Radio Shack store, I suppose. :-( Haven't taken inventory
in the other two RS outlets but have gotten some catalogs
at those; can't remember which one gave out the catalogs.
At that former HRO location I did buy an ARRL Handbook
on CD as a gift for a friend about four years ago (?). I can't
remember if Electronic City in Burbank still has a floor
rack of Amidon toroids since I wasn't looking for those
a year ago; Bill Amidon started that in Burbank, CA, years
ago. If I want toroid cores, powdered-iron or ferrite,
I either go to Dieter's "Kits and Parts" website, ordering
by e-mail, or (if a large quantity) directly to
Micrometals or Ferroxcube or one of their distributors.

I'm not a "casual week-end hobbyist" person but do a
mixture of actual paid-for-services work (professional
by definition) or very unpaid-for-except-by-me (amateur
by definition of monetary compensation). Just to keep from
running out to "radio stores" constantly, I keep a stock of
10% tolerance-vales but 5% real quarter-Watt resistors, 50
to 100 each, from 10 Ohms to 10 MegOhms. Those cost
me all of a couple pennies each from Allied, ordered on-line
when they had a special. I've ordered a 60 MHz 'scope and
triple-outlet, metered power supply from Circuit Specialists
by e-mail when they had a special sale on those. I can
and have ordered other electronic parts from Digi-Key,
Newark, Mouser, Ocean State (in Rhode Island) and
Jameco (in CA bay area), all by e-mail...other than Avnet
(for the 'business side' of this shop). As "John Smith I"
said in another thread, the Internet has become a part of
social fabric and I will vouch for it to be a part of
consumer commerce. My wife and I sort of tested that in
1999 by ordering an eastern king dual adjustable air-
mattress bed by e-mail. It was shipped from two
locations (Florida and California), assembled by us, and
still works just fine today. At half the price of retail store
cost...from stores we couldn't reach by car. No problems
in billing, purchase, or even traceable e-spam as a result
of that order. The amount of shopping one can do on-line
is enormous and, usually, worthwhile. Amazon, as an
example, sells much more than books...but some ARRL
publications can be ordered through them...at the same
prices as what ARRL charges on-line but, no shipping
charges on large purchases. :-)

I was born and raised in an Illinois city of about 50K,
now grown to about 180K in population. In 1948 it boasted
(yes, boasted then) of having TWO "radio parts stores,"
only one of which concerned amateur radio things. We've
been back there several times since but I've not gone
shopping for electronics any one of those times. I HAVE
noticed what Hans Brakob mentioned here several years
ago about the decrease of "ham radio outlets." I agree to
that, having seen the same thing. But, I'm not focussed
on just ham radio. I exist in more of the larger "radio"
world (actually electronics world, radio is a subset of
that). Yes, I'm guilty of not keeping EXACT track of
ARRL products. I've only heard about those for over a
half century...and keep hearing about them (described in
glowing terms) just about every day in here. :-)

I realize that small (relative) geographical locations
don't have as much of most anything as "big cities."
I really can't help that, but the PEOPLE in all areas
seem to have common personal desires and needs and the
marketplace actually RULES what is available where and
for how much. Sometimes we have to go "scrounging"
outside our local area to get what we want. The way I
see it the Internet has been a fantastic LEVELER for all
in that "scrounging." The local delivery shipping
companies help that along everywhere in the USA.
Shopping can start in one's computer and wind up with
the product right to one's front door.

Cheers,