To Whom It May Concern:

Let us take a little bit better look at this “unwritten policy” here,
see if we can make any logical analysis about it—get the “feel” for it,
if you will.

First, there are quite a bit of threads which make up the
rec.radio.amateur.??? “family of threads”:
rec.radio.amateur.antenna
rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors
rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc
rec.radio.amateur.dx
rec.radio.amateur.equipment
rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
rec.radio.amateur
rec.radio.amateur.misc
rec.radio.amateur.packet

Do you see one which is close to say “rec.radio.amateur.new-licensees?”
Or, “rec.radio.amateur.license .help?” "rec.radio.amateur.recruitment?"

No, you will not find a one. Sorry thing …

So, let us examine the existing threads, do any seem to be active in new
recruitment/licence help? No, you don’t see much of that either.

OK. So, examine them again, see may of these threads engaged in dialog
about how to recruit and spark interest in potential-new licensees? No,
not much of that either …

Hmmm, so what do we see?

We see a bunch of protective, selfish, self-serving individuals out to
protect their “turf!”

Now, why don’t we have more “new-blood” here? What, speak up, I can’t
seem to hear you?

Well, I’ll make one exception, Dee, she has expressed some desire,
willing to attempt and willingness towards the above.

What we really have is a bunch of these
"high-mighty-self-centered-jerks" attempting to get their new club house
built and escape there firmly shutting the door behind them, so as to
BAR any of the above from occurring.

Or, as Cecil would say, SWEET!

And you doubt Len? Really?

Regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:

Do you see one which is close to say "rec.radio.amateur.new-licensees?"
Or, "rec.radio.amateur.license.help?" "rec.radio.amateur.recruitment?"

No, you will not find a one. Sorry thing .

The first two would fall under rec.radio.amateur.misc, unless there was
adequate demand to justify creation of a sub-group, which there isn't, from
what I've seen.

Help could be many things, if you needed antenna help there is a group
called .antenna, if you wanted homebrew help you could ask in .homebrew.

..misc is the "catch all" for discussions which are not applicable elsewhere.
Since there is next to zero discussions concerning new licenses or help in
..misc, we can only conclude there is zero demand for such a group.

The 3rd probably isn't relevant at all, since you're not very likely to do
much recruiting on USENET. Google Amateur Radio and your first hit is the
ARRL.

73
KH6HZ

KH6HZ wrote:

...
The 3rd probably isn't relevant at all, since you're not very likely to do
much recruiting on USENET. Google Amateur Radio and your first hit is the
ARRL.

73
KH6HZ



I think it obvious, the new amateur is not going to tolerate the ARRL,
many of the old ones couldn't ... I think even the ARRL has seen that
written on the wall.

If you are not going to recruit from the internet, where, the dum-dums
on the football field? Bars? Churches? Parks? The homeless?

I am afraid the new crowd will need to come from here ... but hey, that
is only one mans' opinion.

JS

John Smith I wrote:

I think it obvious, the new amateur is not going to tolerate the
ARRL, many of the old ones couldn't ... I think even the ARRL has
seen that written on the wall.

I suspect the potential amateur -- remember, the context of the discussion
was recruitment and googling 'amateur radio' -- isn't very likely to have a
clue about the politics of ham radio


If you are not going to recruit from the internet, where, the
dum-dums on the football field? Bars? Churches? Parks? The
homeless?

People interested in ham radio, who come on the internet to find out about
ham radio, are not very likely to do it in a USENET newsgroup. They're far
more likely to use a search engine to research their interest, and that
research (whether good or bad, whether you like it or not) is going to point
to the ARRL.

Google, Yahoo, MSN all have the ARRL as their top hit for the search term
'amateur radio'.


I am afraid the new crowd will need to come from here ... but hey,
that is only one mans' opinion.

If they came "here", e.g. RRAP, they'd run away from ham radio so fast, if
they concluded even a portion of the drivel posted in this newsgroup was
reflective of ham radio as a whole.


73
KH6HZ

KH6HZ wrote:

...
I suspect the potential amateur -- remember, the context of the discussion
was recruitment and googling 'amateur radio' -- isn't very likely to have a
clue about the politics of ham radio


Personally, if the applicant has "political aspirations", I would refer
him/her into some .political group ... we really do NOT need them in the
hobby of amateur radio--and that is possibly the greatest reason I'd
like to see the absence of the ARRL.

People interested in ham radio, who come on the internet to find out about
ham radio, are not very likely to do it in a USENET newsgroup. They're far
more likely to use a search engine to research their interest, and that
research (whether good or bad, whether you like it or not) is going to point
to the ARRL.

USENET? I said "THE INTERNET." (however, schools and community
events/functions are a good place to begin recruiting at) And, they
should be shown the availability of training materials made available by
just-little-plain-old-amateurs--it is much more than enough to get them
through any test, else we fail again ... but, NOT ARRL materials, that
will turn them away most of all.


Google, Yahoo, MSN all have the ARRL as their top hit for the search term
'amateur radio'.

Yes, that is a shame

If they came "here", e.g. RRAP, they'd run away from ham radio so fast, if
they concluded even a portion of the drivel posted in this newsgroup was
reflective of ham radio as a whole.

Personally, I do not run from a good fight, argument, not even a
discussion--doesn't look like you ran too far--nor the others here with
us ...

Good points, all of 'em ...

Warmest regards,
JS

From: John Smith I on Sat, 27 Jan 2007
13:56:45 -0800

To Whom It May Concern:

Ackshully, it don't concern any of the newsgroup's gods of radio.
They are above such petty annoyances from low-lifes not
worshippers of the Great God of Morse.

But, on the sheer face of what you wrote RIGHT ON!


Let us take a little bit better look at this "unwritten policy" here,
see if we can make any logical analysis about it-get the "feel" for it,
if you will.

First, there are quite a bit of threads which make up the
rec.radio.amateur.??? "family of threads":
rec.radio.amateur.antenna
rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors
rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc
rec.radio.amateur.dx
rec.radio.amateur.equipment
rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
rec.radio.amateur
rec.radio.amateur.misc
rec.radio.amateur.packet

Do you see one which is close to say "rec.radio.amateur.new-licensees?"
Or, "rec.radio.amateur.license .help?" "rec.radio.amateur.recruitment?"

No, you will not find a one. Sorry thing ...

The stock answer is "That's the ARRL's Job!"

"Just go to the ARRL website and order 'Now You're Talking'!"
The "cod-liver oil" prescription for newbies.

According to what nearly all olde-tymers in here say, they
are VEs and "elmer" (teach) newbies "all the time."
Strange, but, according to law, VEs only proctor examinations.
Do they also break the law when "teaching" during testing
time?

Now a FEW may actually undertake a personal note to the
"enthused." Oddly enough, the contents, phraseology, and
general tone is standard boilerplate from, guess who, ARRL.
Believe it or not, I've gotten a couple of those. Just a
dozen years ago.

That will be followed by a personal story of "being a teen-
ager, collecting bus tokens and shoe leather to walk to the
nearest FCC Field Office and tremble before the stern,
unforgiving eyes of the FCC Agent while, in flop sweat,
they gave PhD-dissertation Answers to "the hardest thing
they did in their lives." Then walked back barefoot in
the snow, uphill both ways.

Then, to complete the troika, there is the stern admonission
to "learn all you can" or "it's the start of a lifetime of
learning" or "complete this and your friends and neighbors
will come over and admire your (great) intellectual reward."
Variations on the above abound but are the essence of the
standard singing to a chorus of their peers. [high-fives
all around]

In here there is scant mention of radio being "fun" in and
of itself. One MUST work DX on HF with CW. Doing less is
FAILURE. Then there's the "Work Ethic" on morse code
cognition: "One MUST constantly work, work, work to be
good, work at it like nothing else in life!" and other
assorted locker-room halftime shouting and hollering.
"Failure is not an option!" "One MUST MUST MUST know
morse!!!" "You aren't a 'good ham' if you don't!"

What of those than can't "get" the code? Shun them! They
are worthless beings, unfit to inhabit the same earth as
the Mighty Macho Morsemen! "Stupid!" "Can't demonstrate
their willingness to "work!"

What of those (like me) who don't CARE to "do code?" Ah,
that has been the MMM's quandry. They do NOT know how to
handle such people...especially those who were active in
REAL radio long before their first license. Their thoughts
have always used themselves as role models, being suitably
imprinted as teenagers and striving ever since to be
professional amateurs! The closest they've come to
"handling" such rebellious heathen is to play-act a
mother (or, if Catholic, a Nun) and condescendingly
admonish a "child" who has misbehaved! [Miccolis'
conscious or unconscious manner] "Naughty, naughty,
momma spank!" :-(

So, let us examine the existing threads, do any seem to be active in new
recruitment/licence help? No, you don't see much of that either.

Oh, "that's the job of the ARRL!" Or of religious
ministries that send their four-year-olds (who are
always genius-precocious and have full adult English
comprehension) for "instant" license test completion.
[in 1998]

Mush-minded macho middle-school misfits will always growl
(in pubertic tenor tones) "Wassa matta, ya too DUMB ta
pass a test?!?" Those are always unidentifiable anony-
mousies hiding behind curious handles such as "Cmdr
Buzz Corey" (a long-defunct failed TV character from
American black-and-white TV of long-ago days). Those can
be shined off, of course, but those are likely to have
that adolescent atty-tood into well past middle age.

What tickles me are those "personal experiences" during
open-to-the-public events like Field Day. By their
description civilians "always cluster around hams doing
beeping morse, naturally showing an 'interest' in morse
code." Ahem, those of the public crowd around the
STRANGE, wondering whatinhell it is, and hardly ever
give a damn about it later. Amateur morsemen do a LOT
of such morse myth manufacturing.

OK. So, examine them again, see may of these threads engaged in dialog
about how to recruit and spark interest in potential-new licensees? No,
not much of that either ...

Well, as you've mentioned, Dee has paid lip service to that,
but, much earlier, Hans Brakob said much more about his
involvement. Hans quit trying to post in here, noise level
way too high. Can't say I blame him. He is now on the
MODERATOR list. Woe be unto some of the arrogant, posturing,
self-centered self-appointed-gods who have crossed him in the
past in here...

cue Cranky Spanky "But, Len, I've had many a civil
discussion with Hans...blah, blah, blah

Hmmm, so what do we see?

We see a bunch of protective, selfish, self-serving individuals out to
protect their "turf!"

Territorial Imperative! Yes, built into the human psyche.

Ya know, CB on "11 meters" was created in 1958. That's
49 years ago and the HATRED of "mere civilians"
occupying their precious little sliver of spectrum
(largely unused at the time) knew no bounds. Especially
so when there was NO CODE TEST of those (bottom-feeding
river-slime civlians) to use it! That bigotry remained
to rot their souls and for them to pass it on to later
generations to rot the souls of those. POSSESSIVENESS!
It was "theirs!" Geez.


Now, why don't we have more "new-blood" here? What, speak up, I can't
seem to hear you?

Well, there was ONE for sure. Val Germann in Missouri.
A darling of Dick Carroll, SK, then W0EX. Germann said
ALL the right code words, worshipped the same code
gods, was praised and honored, etc. Carroll was still
living when Germann opted out. According to Brian
Burke, Germann is still a Technician class, hasn't
shown up in here since he bailed.

Here's to "TURF:" May it always be trod. By ANYONE.

Regardez silverplate,
LA

On Jan 27, 5:13�pm, John Smith I wrote:
KH6HZ wrote:* ...

I think it obvious, the new amateur is not going to tolerate the ARRL,
many of the old ones couldn't ... I think even the ARRL has seen that
written on the wall.

"Tolerance" or "intolerance" develops later. The obvious huge
base of ARRL publications will attract most newbies. That and
the constant mention of the ARRL by all the olde-tymers.
Newbies haven't yet learned any better.

The FACT of the matter is that the ARRL has failed to garner
enough memberships from the largest class: Technician. They
acknowledge their existance but do little else, preferring to
go to their core membership of olde-tymers, the beepers.

While the above statement cannot be proven by "official"
pollsters, they can't be disproven either. A random sampling
of opinions is enough to secure that for discussion (except
for Cranky Spanky). ARRL is very, very secretive about its
membership demographics, won't even reveal total membership
but twice a year and then only for QST ad sales purposes.
It does not have to reveal anything since QST has the largest
readership number in the USA and is a virtual monopoly on
the ad market. Advertisers are what keeps all periodicals
afloat...including "membership magazines."

I am afraid the new crowd will need to come from here ... but hey, that
is only one mans' opinion.

Not at all, John, you be wrong there. ARRL has periodical and
publication racks on the floors of HRO and Radio Shack and
other stores to catch all eyes. They have ads on websites
but very few non-ARRL-produced periodicals having to do with
radio-electronics. ARRL depends heavily on olde-tymers who
were weaned on the League diamond and may know no other
source of amateur radio information. Those olde-tymers
are constantly mentioning the League. Word of mouth is always
effective and costs the League nothing.

For example, when someone asks for copies of the Question
Pools, olde-tymers invariably point to the ARRL. However,
the QP can be obtained directly from the folks who generate
them at www.ncvec.org. Part 97 of Title 47 C.F.R. can be
obtained free and are exact copies of their original printed form,
directly from the Government Printing Office website through
links at the FCC's website. Olde-tymers will invariably
point to the ARRL again as the "source" of federal government
information. ARRL "edits" the GPO copyright-free regulations
"to be more readable." "More readable?" These old eyes can
read GPO Codes of Federal Regulations just fine in their
regular form. Part 97 is one of the smaller Parts in Title 47.

Newbies will listen to olde-tymers since they haven't YET
learned who are what, hence they will be indoctrinated into
the League. That is part of the 'conditioned thinking' that
pervades US amateur radio. The ARRL "can do no wrong"
is a constant underlining to what nearly all olde-tymers say.
"They control the vertical, they control the horizontal" and
they have created their own outer limits which none can
breach.

But, look at some other things for change. Check
www.ncvec.org for the number of VECs in the USA. Only
one of them is the ARRL. Look at the recent (last decade)
decisions from the FCC on NPRMs...the League doesn't
get carte blanche on whatever it wants now...it was once
just pro forma to yield to ARRL desires. New, never-
before-licensed amateurs are and have been for the last
decade, coming more from the no-code-test Technician
class route. The ARRL was staunchly pro-code even to
just past WRC-03...despite the IARU taking up their stand
of having individual countries decide for themselves over
a year before WRC-03. Despite all that OPEN
INFORMATION, some of the League faithfull refuse to
acknowledge all that, giving more rationalizations
(incorrect ones at that) than a barrel full of red-hatted
monkeys going beep-beep all night long.

The final change will occur in February of this year. If
the ARRL wishes to survive with all its "free" services
intact, it needs to change with the times. It should NOT
treat newbies as little kiddies to be "educated the right
way." They MUST learn that their core membership
(of elderly beeping gentlemen) cannot last forever.
Excuses and myriad rationalizations don't cut it. It
WILL be interesting to see what they do.

Regardez silverplate,
LA

wrote:

...

Len:

You know we have much common ground we agree upon.

At the heart of this whole matter is just a bunch of bad feelings/hurt
feelings. Kinda childish to any outside observer ...

A relatively few personalities close to the center of all this. From
what I see they mostly (if not all) possess extra licenses, they have
fed each other and become (blinded by the light--great song!)

I think, just by bringing attention to this, a logical examination will
put us back on course. Changes are in the making ...

In the end, we will find we all pull our pants on, one leg at a time
(well, Dee wears a dress sometimes, I'd imagine! Some of us don't! grin)

.... and you know "the rest of the story" (paul harvey.)

Regards,
JS

wrote:

...

I think things will never look the same, again ...

Regards,
JS

On 28 Jan 2007 13:11:46 -0800, "
wrote:


Not at all, John, you be wrong there. ARRL has periodical and
publication racks on the floors of HRO and Radio Shack and
other stores to catch all eyes.

Not really trying to change the subject, but I went to the local
bookstore and two Radio Shacks trying to get a copy of the General
Class Study manual. Both Radio Shacks said that they no longer carry
the study guides. So, I opted to download the questions and answers
from the net for free and give that a shot.

Did two Radio Shack managers lie to me? Has anyone seen the ARRL
study guides? I didn't even see any of the "Now Your's Talking" books
at the local stores.