On Feb 20, 6:03�pm, John Smith I wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

* ...

Individuals are VEs not VECs. *Organizations like W5YI, ARRL, and others are
VECs.

Dee, N8UZE

Dee:

As always, you are exactly technically correct.

...to PAST definitions...which are NOT quite definitions in the
official sense but rather "CW" (Conventional Wisdom).

In the FUTURE (which happens right after everyone reads
this) there may very well be whole VECs which do NOT
(gasp!) have morsemen requirements!

Ahem...FCC 06-178 is the revolutionary decision which
is bound to upset many applecarts, rending of garments,
applications of soot, gnashing of teeth, etc. Woe! (sort of
rhymes with "sow") Skies falling, etc.

The FCC *created* both VECs and COLEMs...just as they
UN-created code testing for amateur radio licenses in the
very, very near future...like Friday. :-)

A "No Code VEC" in the future? Why not?

To those who say "NAY! NEVER!" I award the venerable
"cat-ass-trophy."

LA


If the nice ladies in my Catholic Altar Society, the ones who do all the
nice bake sales, wine tasting organizing, flowers, etc.--they would make
a good example of what would constitute a good VEC, for just "another
example."

JS

wrote:

...
To those who say "NAY! NEVER!" I award the venerable
"cat-ass-trophy."

Len:

I think all whos' only purpose is for the continuation of amateur radio
in a relevant and up-to-date manner will agree, logical questions,
exams, examiners, methods and procedures need to be established,
followed, and upheld--and, especially in regards to realignment with
present rules and regulations.

Attrition should continue on at its' accelerating pace and shortly
remove any doubt as to the death of morse. CW is a problem which has
fittingly supplied its' own fix and is now engaged in implementing that
fix (death.)

All new hams need only be aware of the past sins of arrl and the fanatic
devotion to CW and personalities as opposed to principals which has
caused cat-ass-trophy-type-damage to amateur radio and to steer clear of
the arrl or any movements to re-establish some pseudo-class system
amongst amateurs and thereby replace the "CW class system" with a new
and equally insane and damaging one.

We need history to help us avoid making the same old mistakes anew ...

The old-timers need to be avoided like the plague. The old failed
methods and tactics need to be avoided. The future needs to meet up
with amateur radio and bring it to life in the new millennium.

JS

On Feb 21, 11:14�am, John Smith I wrote:
wrote:
...
* To those who say "NAY! *NEVER!" I award the venerable
* *"cat-ass-trophy."

Len:

I think all whos' only purpose is for the continuation of amateur radio
in a relevant and up-to-date manner will agree, logical questions,
exams, examiners, methods and procedures need to be established,
followed, and upheld--and, especially in regards to realignment with
present rules and regulations.

Well, "present" as to the period on and after 23 Feb 07. :-)

Attrition should continue on at its' accelerating pace and shortly
remove any doubt as to the death of morse. *CW is a problem which has
fittingly supplied its' own fix and is now engaged in implementing that
fix (death.)

Easy go there, Stocktonite. Some of us are a bit advanced
on the "attrition list." :-)

No sweat, I come from long livers on both sides. ["how long"
he asked..."oh, about this long" was the answer, indicating
a span of about three feet...:-) ba-dum-bump rimshot]

All new hams need only be aware of the past sins of arrl and the fanatic
devotion to CW and personalities as opposed to principals which has
caused cat-ass-trophy-type-damage to amateur radio and to steer clear of
the arrl or any movements to re-establish some pseudo-class system
amongst amateurs and thereby replace the "CW class system" with a new
and equally insane and damaging one.

"The Cylons were created by man. They rebelled. There
are many copies. They have a Plan!" :-)

[voice-over to beginning of each "Battlestar Gallactica" episode
on Sci-Fi channel...it MAY just be applicable to the newer
generations of radio amateurs]

We need history to help us avoid making the same old mistakes anew ...

NOT as told to us by the League. There ARE many sources,
though few are as kind and glowing and sinning-by-omission
as the League.


The old-timers need to be avoided like the plague.

Yes and no. My friends are (mostly) old-timers. However,
being friends we do respect one another. Therein is the
difference of the olde-tymer morsemen who respect NO ONE
but those who are also morseodists. It is almost a religious
thing. :-(

*The old failed
methods and tactics need to be avoided. *The future needs to meet up
with amateur radio and bring it to life in the new millennium.

Yes. But, there IS some "life." "Life" does not begin and
end with the code key and monotonic assymetric rhythms
of beeping morse. This is very hard to get across to the
olde-tymers who've never really ventured outside of
"working DX with CW on HF."

"Life" has already breathed its way into the Big 3 of modern
amateur radio design-innovation-manufactu Icom, Yaesu,
and Kenwood. Those radios have all the possible "bells-and-
whistles" any licensed amateur needs. The Big 3 make
radios for many radio services, do NOT depend on amateurs
for their sole market penetration as do a few USA makers.
[Icom needs to look at its Aviation product line harder, IMHO]

One thing for damn su The organizations have to GET OUT
to others much more. They must stop singing to the chorus
of like-minded amateurs and speak at the PUBLIC. The
League has some resources but all they do is babble at
other amateurs...and the more vocal amateurs only babble
at other amateurs and exchange high-fives in gratuitous
"congratulations" which aren't deserved. Comedy breaks
on the Jay Leno "Tonight" show aren't "informing the public."
Those are just comedic spots and some adult sarcasm at
the fad of adolescents "text messaging." It's nice that
Walter Cronkite can do some video narration, but let's face
it, Walt is getting on in years. He is fine for the annual
Vienna Philharmonic music thing on TV, but he is NO
LONGER on regular news or many other specials.

Down here the TV cable service has some lovely free HD
programs on many different subjects. Three channels
worth, all for HDTV. HDTV is here, among us, will soon
be the only TV that is broadcast. Wonderful picture, great
sound. But, can you imagine even a half hour of olde-tyme
"CW" showing the modern generations the "joy and rapture"
of "radio" of the 1930s? I think that would severly test the
ability of the best producers of TV and film down here.

If radio amateurs REALLY wanted to "spread the word" of
their hobby, they could. But, the olde-tymers keep intimating
that only They "know what is best" and that "best" way got
cancelled long ago.

Ya know, on retrospect, I should have become an MD, one
with an orthopedic specialty. I could have cleaned up
financially treating all those olde-tymers who got injured
patting themselves on the back for so long. :-)

Regardez,
LA

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
wrote:

...
To those who say "NAY! NEVER!" I award the venerable
"cat-ass-trophy."

Len:

I think all whos' only purpose is for the continuation of amateur radio in
a relevant and up-to-date manner will agree, logical questions, exams,
examiners, methods and procedures need to be established, followed, and
upheld--and, especially in regards to realignment with present rules and
regulations.

Attrition should continue on at its' accelerating pace and shortly remove
any doubt as to the death of morse. CW is a problem which has fittingly
supplied its' own fix and is now engaged in implementing that fix (death.)

All new hams need only be aware of the past sins of arrl and the fanatic
devotion to CW and personalities as opposed to principals which has caused
cat-ass-trophy-type-damage to amateur radio and to steer clear of the arrl
or any movements to re-establish some pseudo-class system amongst amateurs
and thereby replace the "CW class system" with a new and equally insane
and damaging one.

We need history to help us avoid making the same old mistakes anew ...

The old-timers need to be avoided like the plague. The old failed methods
and tactics need to be avoided. The future needs to meet up with amateur
radio and bring it to life in the new millennium.

JS

And your specific proposals are? Just saying that one needs to avoid the
old and come up with something new is useless. Concrete ideas and specific
plans are needed.

Dee, N8UZE

On Feb 21, 3:12�pm, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:09:04 -0500, "Dee Flint"





wrote:

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
wrote:

...
* To those who say "NAY! *NEVER!" I award the venerable
* *"cat-ass-trophy."

Len:

I think all whos' only purpose is for the continuation of amateur radio in
a relevant and up-to-date manner will agree, logical questions, exams,
examiners, methods and procedures need to be established, followed, and
upheld--and, especially in regards to realignment with present rules and
regulations.

Attrition should continue on at its' accelerating pace and shortly remove
any doubt as to the death of morse. *CW is a problem which has fittingly
supplied its' own fix and is now engaged in implementing that fix (death.)

All new hams need only be aware of the past sins of arrl and the fanatic
devotion to CW and personalities as opposed to principals which has caused
cat-ass-trophy-type-damage to amateur radio and to steer clear of the arrl
or any movements to re-establish some pseudo-class system amongst amateurs
and thereby replace the "CW class system" with a new and equally insane
and damaging one.

We need history to help us avoid making the same old mistakes anew ...

The old-timers need to be avoided like the plague. *The old failed methods
and tactics need to be avoided. *The future needs to meet up with amateur
radio and bring it to life in the new millennium.

JS

And your specific proposals are? *Just saying that one needs to avoid the
old and come up with something new is useless. *Concrete ideas and specific
plans are needed.

did you read the following"All new hams need only be aware of the past
sins of arrl and the fanatic *devotion to CW and personalities as
opposed to principals which has caused cat-ass-trophy-type-damage to
amateur radio and to steer clear of the arrl or any movements to
re-establish some pseudo-class system amongst amateurs and thereby
replace the "CW class system" with a new and equally insane and
damaging one."

looks a fairly derect suggestion to finish undoing incentive lciensing
and not replace it with anything like it the future

Dee wants Absolute, Detailed, Worked-Out, Vetted and
Verified (officially) NEW plans. Otherwise, the old system
is good enough for her. Why not? She "earned" her
rank-status-title-privileges under the old system. A new
system would put that beloved rank-status-title-privileges
in jeopardy.

A "NEW" thing can be worked out democratically by
simply submitting a Proposal to the FCC. Naturally the
ARRL will be opposed to that...unless They submitted
it. :-)

Evolution will happen, like it or not. Old species (such
as morseodists) will become extinct. Such is the way
of evolution. However, Dino-sours bones are sort-of
interesting to study...as are old fossils.

Regardez,
LA

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
wrote:

...
To those who say "NAY! NEVER!" I award the venerable
"cat-ass-trophy."

Len:

I think all whos' only purpose is for the continuation of amateur radio in
a relevant and up-to-date manner will agree, logical questions, exams,
examiners, methods and procedures need to be established, followed, and
upheld--and, especially in regards to realignment with present rules and
regulations.

Attrition should continue on at its' accelerating pace and shortly remove
any doubt as to the death of morse. CW is a problem which has fittingly
supplied its' own fix and is now engaged in implementing that fix (death.)

Do you call yourself an amateur operator? Do you have problems with loyalty?
Interesting how you have no problem smearing the very people who have kept
the service alive. So, maybe you're not even loyal to your own mother. Who
cares?

All new hams need only be aware of the past sins of arrl and the fanatic
devotion to CW and personalities as opposed to principals which has caused
cat-ass-trophy-type-damage to amateur radio and to steer clear of the arrl
or any movements to re-establish some pseudo-class system amongst amateurs
and thereby replace the "CW class system" with a new and equally insane
and damaging one.

Ha ha, yes, like a written test. And do you think your buddy LA could even
hope to pass today's element 4? I don't think this alleged IEEE illuminati
could pass extra anymore. He's too retired...been out of the business for
too long. He still calls a capacitor a condenser and a tube a valve. The
test has become a better filter than morse code, (for extra only). Let's
move on to fixing the general class test.

Len is stuck in the past, recirting the history of radio science and
denigrating the use of morse code which has long become a moot issue
(science the institution of 5 wpm no code).

I find it interesting that you and Len want to trash the old yet you both
still communicate via usenet. I mean, isn't there something newer you could
go to, like blogs?

We need history to help us avoid making the same old mistakes anew ...

Hahahaha...good one.


The old-timers need to be avoided like the plague.

Yes, out with the old, in with the new, from the very same people who
brought you jobs outsourcing and illegal immigration, Al Gore and global
warming. Those old paradigms ain't no good anymore. Time to ruin the
culture.

The old failed methods and tactics need to be avoided. The future needs to
meet up with amateur radio and bring it to life in the new millennium.

Unfortunately, today's EE graduate learn nothing about analog design. They
cannot even design a linear power supply much less a switch mode. And to
think of them trying to design an SSB transmitter or even a linear amp! If
it's not prepackaged on a chip, throw it away. Digital rules.

SW

Stefan Wolfe wrote:

[a LOT of stuff I clipped]

Yes. Yes I am loyal to amateur radio.

However, I am not loyal to antique radio gear, nor antiquated methods,
beliefs and practices. I am NOT loyal to personalities, but DAMN LOYAL
to principals, advancement and progress.

My interests in electronics and things relating to electronics have also
held my interests and "loyalties." However, electronics have evolved.
Most of the electronic "gear" I now work with is never meant to be
built, maintained nor repaired by human hands. It is meant to grow
obsolete in a matter of years and be replaced. When amateur radio
becomes current, its' gear will be of a likewise state.

Things change. Amateur radio does not exist in a vacuum, it must adapt
also. It has been held hostage by a relative few who have stalled its'
advancement. However, it always has been subject to the same rules
which govern all: Adapt and evolve or become extinct.

Now, at this brink of extinction, it is time for change ... and no one
likes change but a wet baby--and even they often cry when the change is
implemented ...

All of us will die, let amateur radio live on and eventually reach a
state where none alive today would ever recognize it, but most of all,
let it become relevant and important and of valid use to those of the
future who we will never meet. Let us leave them something they can
thank us for.

JS

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:36:34 -0500, "Stefan Wolfe"
wrote:


"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
wrote:

...
To those who say "NAY! NEVER!" I award the venerable
"cat-ass-trophy."

Len:

I think all whos' only purpose is for the continuation of amateur radio
in
a relevant and up-to-date manner will agree, logical questions, exams,
examiners, methods and procedures need to be established, followed, and
upheld--and, especially in regards to realignment with present rules and
regulations.

Attrition should continue on at its' accelerating pace and shortly
remove
any doubt as to the death of morse. CW is a problem which has fittingly
supplied its' own fix and is now engaged in implementing that fix
(death.)

Do you call yourself an amateur operator?
I think he does

Do you have problems with loyalty?

why do you ask?

I'm just interested in measuring the gene pool of today's youth for
essential human qualities such as 'loyalty'. Do you know what a gene pool
is? Hint: It does not involve a cue stick.

Interesting how you have no problem smearing the very people who have kept
the service alive.

no he is being critcal of those that have trying more or les to kill
the ARS in His opinion and mine

Fear not, it is being resurrected by new Extra's who cannot even tell the
difference between a VEC and a VE.


So, maybe you're not even loyal to your own mother. Who
cares?

you do

When it comes to posting flames, you are no Len Anderson. Please stop trying
to act like him. One LA is rrap is more than enough.

Dee Flint wrote:

...
And your specific proposals are? Just saying that one needs to avoid the
old and come up with something new is useless. Concrete ideas and specific
plans are needed.

Dee, N8UZE



Dee:

Concrete and specific?

OK. Let us persuade manufactures to create more transceivers which plug
into our computer buses (pci/usb/etc.) Let the standard amateur amp be
a 1mhz-12ghz laboratory amp.

Let us see these mass produced in china and the cost drop by magnitudes.
Let us see high school electronic classes assisting students get ham
tickets.

Let us put the focus of amateur radio where it rightly belongs,
equipment and licenses in the hands of those who are making the future
while living towards the future.

JS

John Smith I wrote:
Let us see high school electronic classes assisting students get ham
tickets.

I teach GED classes in the local cisd system. The
web server firewall blocks access to anything associated
with amateur radio because it is "entertainment".
www.arrl.org access is blocked right along with all the
other undesirable web sites. My protestations have
fallen on deaf ears.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com