In article ,
(bro) writes:

(5) An unexpired (or expired) FCC-granted Novice Class operator license
grant:
Element 1.

(6) A CSCE: Each element the CSCE indicates the examinee passed within the
previous 365 days.

(7) An unexpired (or expired less than 5 years) FCC-issued commercial
radiotelegraph operator license or permit: Element 1.

(8) An expired FCC-issued Technician Class operator license document
granted
before March 21, 1987: Element 3.

(9) An expired or unexpired FCC-issued Technician Class operator license
document granted before February 14, 1991: Element 1.

(b) No examination credit, except as herein provided, shall be allowed on
the
basis of holding or having held any other license grant or document.

(End of Part 97 quote)

Note that an old expired Tech can be good for Element 3, and an old expired
Novice or Tech can be good for Element 1. But a CSCE more than 365 days old
gives no credit. Only a license can carry element credit beyond 365 days.

It is good "forever" for the purpose of granting the Novice HF
privileges to a Technician.

Yup.

How's that for Uncle Sam logic?

Makes no sense at all.

It gets worse - consider these scenarios:

Expired Novice or Tech-with-code licenses are good for Element 1, but other
expired-beyond-the-grace-period licenses are not. So someone who held a
Novice
50 years ago and let it expire gets Element 1 credit, but someone who held
an
Extra and let it expire 732 days ago gets no credit.

In similar fashion, an expired Tech from before March 21, 1987 is worth
Element
3, but not Element 2! Also, no other expired-beyond-the-grace-period
license is
worth written element credit.

Huh?

73 de Jim, N2EY


Ok now how about this?

My license is now expired, but....

I have sitting on my desk:
an origional 01/14/86 issued "Technician License" and
an origional 07/11/89 issued "Technician License (address change)

If i gave to a VE the earlier issued lic. do I get credit for elements
1 and 3, giving me a general class now? With no retesting?
I think at that time gen and tech written were the same, only
needing faster
code for the gen.

Or
If i gave the VE the latter issued lic. do I get credit only for the
code, meaning i must retake the written tech and general?

Brian,

The earlier license carries credit for Element 1 (5 wpm code) and Element 3
(General written). See paragraphs (9) and (8). But it does not carry credit for
Element 2 (Technician written!). Even though the Tech and General written were
the same in 1986, they're not the same now.

So the thing to do is to brush up on Element 2. It's 35 questions, multiple
choice, and the Q&A pools are available for free download at several websites.
You can also do online practice exams for any written element to see how well
the studying is going.

When you're ready to try the Element 2 exam, go to a VE session, present your
1986 license and take Element 2. Once Element 2 is passed, you'll have a
General.

In fact, while you're there, try Element 4 (Extra). Costs nothing but your
time, and you might wind up an Extra.

73 es GL de Jim, N2EY.

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article ,

(bro) writes:

(5) An unexpired (or expired) FCC-granted Novice Class operator license
grant:
Element 1.

(6) A CSCE: Each element the CSCE indicates the examinee passed within
the
previous 365 days.

(7) An unexpired (or expired less than 5 years) FCC-issued commercial
radiotelegraph operator license or permit: Element 1.

(8) An expired FCC-issued Technician Class operator license document
granted
before March 21, 1987: Element 3.

(9) An expired or unexpired FCC-issued Technician Class operator
license
document granted before February 14, 1991: Element 1.

(b) No examination credit, except as herein provided, shall be allowed
on
the
basis of holding or having held any other license grant or document.

(End of Part 97 quote)

Note that an old expired Tech can be good for Element 3, and an old
expired
Novice or Tech can be good for Element 1. But a CSCE more than 365 days
old
gives no credit. Only a license can carry element credit beyond 365
days.

It is good "forever" for the purpose of granting the Novice HF
privileges to a Technician.

Yup.

How's that for Uncle Sam logic?

Makes no sense at all.

It gets worse - consider these scenarios:

Expired Novice or Tech-with-code licenses are good for Element 1, but
other
expired-beyond-the-grace-period licenses are not. So someone who held a
Novice
50 years ago and let it expire gets Element 1 credit, but someone who
held
an
Extra and let it expire 732 days ago gets no credit.

In similar fashion, an expired Tech from before March 21, 1987 is worth
Element
3, but not Element 2! Also, no other expired-beyond-the-grace-period
license is
worth written element credit.

Huh?

73 de Jim, N2EY


Ok now how about this?

My license is now expired, but....

I have sitting on my desk:
an origional 01/14/86 issued "Technician License" and
an origional 07/11/89 issued "Technician License (address change)

If i gave to a VE the earlier issued lic. do I get credit for elements
1 and 3, giving me a general class now? With no retesting?
I think at that time gen and tech written were the same, only
needing faster
code for the gen.

Or
If i gave the VE the latter issued lic. do I get credit only for the
code, meaning i must retake the written tech and general?

Brian,

The earlier license carries credit for Element 1 (5 wpm code) and Element
3
(General written). See paragraphs (9) and (8). But it does not carry
credit for
Element 2 (Technician written!). Even though the Tech and General written
were
the same in 1986, they're not the same now.

So the thing to do is to brush up on Element 2. It's 35 questions,
multiple
choice, and the Q&A pools are available for free download at several
websites.
You can also do online practice exams for any written element to see how
well
the studying is going.

When you're ready to try the Element 2 exam, go to a VE session, present
your
1986 license and take Element 2. Once Element 2 is passed, you'll have a
General.

In fact, while you're there, try Element 4 (Extra). Costs nothing but your
time, and you might wind up an Extra.

73 es GL de Jim, N2EY.



Whoops, I came into this thread late, Jim, so please forgive (I had to find
another thread with a semblance of logic to it...whew). OK, I notice that
the poster said his license is now expired (but I'm not sure if how long
it's been expired).

I am "coaching" a former ham. His license expired well over 2 years ago and
he was a pre-1987 Technician. I told him he needs to re-enter the hobby
fresh, as if he'd never been there.

Was I right?

Kim W5TIT

In article , "Kim"
writes:

Whoops, I came into this thread late, Jim, so please forgive (I had to find
another thread with a semblance of logic to it...whew).

That's a BIG job, Kim!

OK, I notice that
the poster said his license is now expired (but I'm not sure if how long
it's been expired).

He's beyond the grace period.

I am "coaching" a former ham. His license expired well over 2 years ago and
he was a pre-1987 Technician. I told him he needs to re-enter the hobby
fresh, as if he'd never been there.

Was I right?

To put it delicately - it depends.

If he can find his old license, and the dates on it prove he was a pre-1987
Tech, then he only needs to pass Element 2 (Tech written, 35 Q) to get a
General. That old expired license carries credit for 5 wpm code and General
written, as I read Part 97.

If he goes for Extra he only needs Element 2 and Element 4

If he can't find his old license, things get a bit more involved.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , bro writes:

In fact, while you're there, try Element 4 (Extra). Costs nothing but your
time, and you might wind up an Extra.

73 es GL de Jim, N2EY.

Awesome! Thanks for advice!

You're welcome.

As of yesterday, I was thinking I'd have to retest for everything , so I
downloaded the new tech pool from ARRL. Taking that test is going to be no
problem. I think i could get a 80 or 90 percent if i had to answer the whole
500 or so question pool now now.

See? Nothing to it.

So like you say, mabe start studying for the Extra also. Why not.

'zactly. Go for it.

Just to be sure, do you know of any web sites that throw 35 questions at you
and grade you?

Not offhand, but I know they exist. Try a Google search. I will do so and post
the results when I have a chance (this is being written offline and will be
AutoAol'ed to post).

Oh yes, and if I give the VE the 1986 licence will he know my most currently
expired one is from 1989? (from some data base or something), giving me only
Element one.

Doesn't matter. Your 1986 license documentation overrides the 1989 license
documentation. The reason for the difference is that the Tech test changed on
March 21, 1987. The '86 license proves you took the "old" test, and that's all
that matters.

If it were me, I'd bring the original licenses and a copy or two.

Again, Thank you kindly

Weclome back and good luck!

73 de Jim, N2EY

...
I am "coaching" a former ham. His license expired well over 2 years ago and
he was a pre-1987 Technician. I told him he needs to re-enter the hobby
fresh, as if he'd never been there.

Was I right?

No.

He does have to take element 2, but upon presentation of his pre-87 expired
technician license, that element 2 test will give him a GENERAL class license,
not technician (as it would for someone who was starting "fresh").

Kim,

The problem with the questions and answers is that as they change, unless
someone actually learned the theory behind it, one may have to restudy. I
let all of my licenses go in the early 80s (commercial telegraph, 1st phone,
radar, amateur extra). When I decided to get back into amateur radio, I
simply appeared for the exam and spent dang near 3 hours for all of the
tests (back in 1993 - I'm up for renewal in a few months). I doubt any of
the former licenses carried any weight, but I didn't worry about it and it
didn't matter. (the 20 word per minute cw exam did have me a bit nervous as
I hadn't copied any cw since 1969 LOL).

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


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