Dick Carroll wrote:

Robert Casey wrote:


Back in the early days of my HF career, I figured that if the band seems
empty, well either
propagation is out or everyone's asleep or at work or such. In any
event, there's nobody
to qso with, so check other bands.

But--- did you listen carefully for any very weak signals on CW? Often that
is the clue to what's happening, or about to happen, on an otherwise seemingly
dead band.
Sometimes when you tune around carefully, listening for any hint of signals,
you'll start something - you hear a very weak one, peak him up with your
receiver filtering, whatever you have to work with, listen long enough to ID him
and where he's located. If he signs off with the station he's working, and
you've tuned up, you give him a call. If he's copying as well as you, he answers
and suddenly you've turned a dead band into a QSO. More often than not, others
will hear you two in QSO and next thing you know they're either calling in
tailending you, or calling CQ nearby and drumming up their own contact. When you
next tune around, there'll be several QSO's going on on the "dead" band.

This scene plays out far more often than you would think, or used to back when
HF experienced hams were the norm rather than the exception. Sure is worth
trying, anyway.

Dick

One more hint-some of the best DX contacts I've ever had occurred when I called
CQ
on a "dead" band. You get to work the rare one who answers without the "benefit"
of
the hounds, no pileup, no QRM, at least until enough others hear you working him
to
draw a crowd.

Bill Sohl wrote:
..


So how come the other services abondoned morse as such a
valuable back-up?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK


I am sure the Coast Guard and Navy are trembling in their boots
that the day will come when the only thing they may have to rely
on is CW and no one will have the skill.
The other services realized that CW has been outmoded for
communications for some time and finally gave it up. For hams it
is just another mode to communicate and those who like that mode
will learn it whether it is required or not. Don't set on the edge
of your chair Larry and Dick, anticipating the day when you and
your code skills are going to be the only thing to save the day.
With all the different types of coms available today, it ain't
going to happen. CW is outdated, but it will be a part of ham
radio for some time to come just because of the tradition, but
that is the only importance CW can hold in ham radio, tradition.

"Dick Carroll" wrote ...

The question, obviously, is "How's he gonna know it's you???"
__________________________________________________ _____________

Dick,

I thought about saying just that. At our typical net speed of around 20wpm,
I seriously doubt he would pick up more than a letter or two every minute.

73,

Arnie -
KT4ST

On 09 Jul 2003 03:57:18 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

This is not "negativity," just a plainly truthful assessment of the present
situation regarding licensing standards in the ARS.

My own feeling is that anyone who would whine about having to
"prepare" for the Element 2 written exam probably has never touched a
radio in his/her life other than maybe an AM/FM broadcast receiver.

With that said, and upon further consideration, I have to admit that
you're probably right, there probably will be some...and telling them
about how we used to have to hike barefooted 50 mile suphill both ways
to and from an FCC office to take the code test and the gawdawfullest
written exams anybody ever heard of isn't going to cut it with those
folks either. I myself might prefer to take a more positive
approach...yes, it's a pain in the neck to have to read that silly
book but look at the privileges you get once it's all over with, etc.

Every time I hear someone lamenting the supposed dumbing down of the
ARS, I can't help but think of the number of longtime hams I've seen
over the past few years who brought a brand new 2m or dual-band mobile
or HT, or an Icom 706MKIIG or Yaesu FT-100 into a club meeting to seek
help in programming it.

I know what you're talking about -- and I'll concede up front that a lot of
these technically-inept OT's are 20 WPM Extras to boot! However, I have

I dunno if I'd call them technically inept. These are guys who've
probably forgotten more about theory than I've ever learned. There are
other reasons for their difficulty with programming today's radios.

always strove to keep up with the times as far as basic technical knowledge
is concerned -- and not just the bare minimum required to keep beeping
or yakking. I have always been involved in digital modes, for instance, and
now use them more than CW! I have been my club's "Digital Mode Captain"
for the past four Field Days, and will try to pass that job over to some
newcomer next year, if only I could find one willing to open some books and
turn some pages to learn everything I have -- instead of being "Elmered"
with "hands on" training which only gives them the basic operational
procedure and none of the background.

The last two years at Field Day, the only guy attempting any digital
mode other than CW was a no-code Tech. He made a few SSTV contacts.

I'm not talking about relative newcomers
either, I'm talking about guys who were hams before I was even born.

Yup, I know. They're a real problem, all right. Usually the leaders of
the "Don't PL our repeater" pack of whiners.

We were forced to PL ours about a year ago when a temperature
inversion brought in signals on the input from users of four different
repeaters 50-75 miles or more away from ours. Our repeater's
transmitter was keyed down almost nonstop for about three hours one
day. That was the end...the technical committee decided it was easier
to beg forgiveness than obtain permission and enabled CTCSS on the
input (we'd been transmitting the tone on the output for years to
benefit those with radios with CTCSS decode). Funny thing was, nobody
really complained to the board or to the committee. There was one
group of four or five guys whose regular chitchat on every other
morning moved to another repeater because one of the guys has an older
radio that can't even transmit the tone let alone decode it on
receive, but they seemed to understand why we had to do it. They were
all older hams, but none of them has so far brought in a 2m rig to get
help programming it.

Furthermore, sometimes it's a no-code Tech who picks up the
old-timer's HT and shows him how to program it.

Sometimes, but certainly not often enough. The No-Code Techs are at the
top of the list of the technically inept, in spite of their protests to the
contrary.

In our club there are basically two guys they usually bring 'em to.
One is me (current General) and the other is a Technician. We've done
so many now that we generally just sit down and program the club
repeater into a memory (proper offset and tone of course) while they
stand there holding the manual and shaking their heads...but when we
first started we read a lot of manuals that were very obviously
written in Japanese and then translated into English and were very
little help even to us - and we've been programming programmable
radios almost since the first programmable scanners hit the market
(remember the old Bearcat 100?).

Never mind that the
HT's owner could have learned this for himself by reading the manual,
because many manufactuers' manuals leave a lot to be desired, and
we're talking about guys who once built microphones out of tuna fish
cans and can do 40WPM or better in their sleep.

Quite frankly, the tuna fish-can mics didn't sound that great, and the
40 WPM in their sleep would have sounded a lot better if they had used
25 WPM while wide awake.

Perhaps...but some of these guys are really amazing. We have at least
one guy in our club who can sit there and hold a conversation with
five other people, while across the room two guys are working a CW
contest, one operating and the other logging, and all of a sudden
he'll turn around and tell the ops, "Work that guy, we need him!"
Invariably when the call is punched into the dupe checker, we do in
fact need that contact for a multiplier, too.

This has always been the case, John -- I was one of the "technical
nerds" when I was a newcomer ham as well -- much to the dismay of
the OT's in my first club. And I don't claim to be a technical genius
or anything like it -- I have strictly "amateur" technical skills. I am,
however, technically self-sufficient as far as my own station set-up and
operation is concerned, and I have enough know-how to maintain our
club's repeaters, do all our computer logging for Field Day and other
contests, etc. etc.

I've always set up my own station equipment too. It hasn't fallen to
me to maintain a repeater yet. I understand the theory behind 'em but
haven't gained practical experience working on a repeater.

I don't disagree with you whatsoever about the technical abilities of
hams past or present. However, I don't assign that technical inability
to knowledge of the Morse code, either. The two are not related, no
matter how hard the no-coders struggle to make that very same
connection in their arguments.

Yet above you said (and I cut and paste here):

Sometimes, but certainly not often enough. The No-Code Techs are at the
top of the list of the technically inept, in spite of their protests to the
contrary.

Presumably, then, this means that the lack of technical proficiency is
not related to the lack of CW skills. Well...Technician is the
entry-level license. A Tech isn't expected to have attained the same
level of technical proficiency as an Extra or a General. When they do,
they take another test (or currently, two tests) and upgrade.

BTW, Larry, you were supposed to look me up when you came up this way,
I still owe you a roast beef from a bet we made several years ago and
you haven't even bothered to collect your winnings.

My apologies. I don't even remember the bet. I guess my brain is too
full of Morse code knowledge to retain such things, eh? Please refresh
my memory!

This happened during the weeks just prior to restructuring. There was
a discussion of how many license classes we were going to end up with.
Your prediction of three classes turned out to be correct. I'd
predicted two, and so still owe you a roast beef sandwich at Swiston's
in Tonawanda...when you get up to the Northtowns on one of your
occasional trips back to western NY.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:20:17 GMT, Dick Carroll
wrote:

No, I certainly do not. If someone wants to only operate cw, only
ssb, only 2 meter FM, then fine, and they are just as much a ham
as someone who operates multiple modes.

So a ham who operates all modes except that he cannot operate radiotlegraphy
because he doewn't know Morse code, is just as well qualified as a ham who
operates all those and also can operate radiotelegraphy.

Surely you can understand the fallacy of your own argument,
all other considerations aside.


The question becomes, qualified to do what?

The fact that I do not have a license to drive a motorcycle does not
make me any less qualified to drive a car. Similarly, the fact that I
choose not to operate in CW purely out of personal preference makes me
no less qualified to operate phone, packet, PSK31, etc.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On 10 Jul 2003 02:34:45 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

In article , JJ
writes:

Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate
CW?

In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually
based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to
learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word.
L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code
are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to
have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!!

Still on that kick, eh?

How about a ham who learned it (at least well enough to pass a 5WPM
code test) and now chooses not to operate in that mode anyway? Is that
laziness too, or is it a ham exercising his/her right to operate in
whatever mode he/she chooses from among those permitted to him/her
under the privileges granted by his/her license? (and it is not my
intention to trip you on the point that no-code techs are permitted to
operate in CW anywhere that they have privileges)


There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do
you operate them all?

Nope, not all -- but certainly a whole lot more than most hams do. And
you know something totally strange? My Morse/CW proficiency doesn't
interfere one little bit in my enjoyment of other modes!

Even though I learned the code well enough to pass a test, I don't
consider myself proficient at it. My lack of proficiency doesn't
interfere one little bit in my enjoyment of other modes.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On 11 Jul 2003 02:08:29 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

It is a plain fact that future hams who do not face a code tesing requirement
for licensing are going to be less capable communicators than myself and
others who did. The only thing that got me into the use of the Morse/CW
mode was the requirement to learn it. It made me a better ham in every
respect. The New Age non-code tested hams will be inferior for the lack of
this requirement.

The only reason I learned code was that it was required to upgrade
beyond Technician class. Passing the code test would have made me a
Tech Plus and earned me some phone privileges on 10m and CW on several
other bands...except that I took the General class written at the same
VE session, and passed it, walking out with General class privileges.

At that point, I could communicate using CW at 5 WPM. At the same
point, I could also communicate using phone at a significantly faster
rate than 5 WPM since I can speak a lot faster than that. I could
also communicate using PSK31 at a significantly faster rate than 5 WPM
since I can type a lot faster than that. Thus, for me the use of
another mode is more efficient for me than to use CW. I would actually
be a less capable communicator if I used CW than I am using another
mode. My facing the code testing requirement did not affect my ability
to speak or to type.

Well, everyone's estimate of their "enjoyment" of ham radio is a subjective
thing. However, in this age where we're trying to justify our hold on
literally
billions of dollars worth of commercially viable spectrum, we place a great
emphasis on our capabilities as "emergency" communicators. Unfortunately,
the least reliable modes we employ are those that depend on voice
communication -- and these modes are the first to "go South" when
atmospheric conditions and man-made interference do not operate in our
favor.

These days, the vast majority of emergency communications is done on a
local basis, primarily on 2m using FM repeaters and simplex. 70cm is
probably the next most widely used band for this purpose. Neither is
subject to the propagation difficulties often encountered on HF.

In my own estimation, the biggest problem with emergency
communications in the ARS right now isn't the people who don't know
CW, it's the people who think their 5-watt (or 2-watt, or 150
mkilliwatt) HT and its 650mAh battery pack is all they need to
function as an emergency communicator when the proverbial merde hits
the proverbial ventillateur.

Morse/CW allows us to overcome the majority of those obstacles,
but only those who know how to effectively employ this mode are qualified
to make that judgment.

Actually, it's the agencies served by our ARES and RACES and other
emergency communications groups who are best qualified to judge the
effectiveness of our contributions. The ones I've worked with so far
have expressed high praise for the efforts of our team of hams, and we
have yet to use CW during an activation.

Therefore, your argument about "enjoyment" is,
as are most NCTA arguments, self-serving at best.

Apples and oranges, perhaps. Only the most masochistic among us would
claim to actually enjoy pulling a 12- or 14-hour shift in a chilly EOC
or standing in a street in the middle of an ice storm. Emergency
communications isn't done for enjoyment. DX'ing, contesting, and
casual ragchewing are done for enjoyment, and if one enjoys using CW
for such activities, there's nothing stopping anyone from doing so.
For those who do not enjoy using CW, the same activities can also be
enjoyed using other modes.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:19:38 -0400, "Bill Sohl"
wrote:

In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually
based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to
learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word.
L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S.
Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code
are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to
have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!!

Yes sir, guess my lack of desire to play golf can best be attributed
to a lack of willingness to break my inertia and get down
to learing it. Just my basic laziness I guess...nothing at all
involving there's any personal choice, like or dislike involved.

Same ole Larry :-)

No, Bill - it's the fact that you couldn't find that club called The
Truth in your golf bag...even though you left it right there between
the three wood and the sand wedge. ;-)

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

JJ wrote:

N2EY wrote:



Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW?
There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you
operate them all?


No - do you?

No, I certainly do not. If someone wants to only operate cw, only
ssb, only 2 meter FM, then fine, and they are just as much a ham
as someone who operates multiple modes.

So a ham who operates all modes except that he cannot operate radiotlegraphy
because he doewn't know Morse code, is just as well qualified as a ham who
operates all those and also can operate radiotelegraphy.

Surely you can understand the fallacy of your own argument,
all other considerations aside.

In article , "Bill Sohl"
writes:

In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually
based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to
learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word.
L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S.

Yes sir, guess my lack of desire to play golf can best be attributed
to a lack of willingness to break my inertia and get down
to learing it. Just my basic laziness I guess...nothing at all
involving there's any personal choice, like or dislike involved.

Same ole Larry :-)

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Bill:

Nice try, but not quite the same thing. A prospective ham not wanting to
learn and/or use the Morse code is like a prospective golfer not wanting
to learn how to putt, because all he wants to do is drive golf balls for
distance. Well, even I can drive a bucket balls at the range to kill an
afternoon, but I'd never call myself a "golfer."

Morse/CW is an essential communications skill for anyone who is going
to consider him/herself to be an effective amateur radio operator. This
is the one skill which gives them the ability to keep on communicating
under adverse conditions that put an end to communication using less
robust or more equipment and electrical capacity-dependent modes. It
gives us the ultimate in emergency backup communications capability,
which is ever-so important and politically-correct for hams these days.

73 de Larry, K3LT