"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
.com:


"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
...

"Guessing" wrote in message
news:kTWPa.1427$Bd5.928@fed1read01...

"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
...
"Guessing" wrote in
news:bXVPa.1425$Bd5.445@fed1read01:

Ask a lawyer about that one. Hey I want to be a BSEE, why do I have
to take History classes ????

You don't have to take history classes in some schools
to get a BSEE.


Broaden the category to Socio-Humanistic electives or whatever
equivalent term that your college uses and you will find that you do
have to take a certain amount of them. And everyone regardless of
major has to take English even though they should already be proficient
at that before they get there. You have to take quite a few
"unnecessary" courses in college to get a degree in any field.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



I'm against that too. BTW, I got my EE degree in England, and you don't
have to go through any of that wholly irrelevant stuff. No English, no
social studies of any kind, no chemistry (which I understand is oftem
required over here).

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dee D. Flint wrote:
If radio were invented today, no amateur radio service would even be
allowed
to exist. The governments would hog it all. They've already tried to
take
it away more than once.

Mostly at Radio's early beginning. 200 Meters and Down is a must read.

Yup, it's a great book. I'm just glad that the ARRL has seen fit to finally
reissue it. I borrowed a copy from the club library years ago and have been
looking to purchase one ever since.

However, while the government is no longer trying to banish us, they still
keep trying to get our frequencies. If carried to the ultimate end, this
would accomplish the same thing.

And the less the qualification required to become a ham, the closer they are to being
fully
justified to just dumping us on whatever sliver of spectrum the commercials don'te
want at
the moment. Until the time comes that no one with any sense would be bothered with it

and at that point it's just another version of CB. From that point it becomes an
academic
exercise to watch it completely fade away, replaced by the internet and a few FRS
style
HT's. Oh, ARRL will still be there waving the flag and yelling Gung Ho! over the few
dweebs
remaining.

Bill Sohl wrote:

"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote


An amateur radio license is a document awarded at the *beginning* of
one's participation in the hobby for the purpose of granting operating
privileges and to certify that the recipient has demonstrated entry
level knowledge at the class of license thus received.

And since the Extra class license is awarded to illiterates today, your point is at
least partly
valid. In past times the Extra class license wasn't issued to people whom the FCC
wasn't
pretty sure had the knowledge and ability to function at the top level of ham radio.
The Extra class license, at its inception, was never intended to be a entry level
license
at all. That you "modernists" conclude otherwise serves to confirm just how far the
"dumbing down" of the ARS has gone.



It won't get
you a job bagging groceries.

And definitely that was not always the case. I've landed a couple jobs in
electronics on
the strength of my ham ticket, and later partially so, since by that time I also held
a commercial
license. But knowledgble administraters used to consider a ham to be knowledgable in
electronics.; Again, that it isn't so these days speaks to just how far toward CB the
ARS has slid. Youi never saw
CBers beiong viewed as technically competent because of their participation in
ratchetjawing.
Sure looks like the same applies to today's voice-only hams!


As for the accomplishments, those come
afterward when you actually start to make use of the privileges the
license conveys by putting Qs in your logbook.

Ah, yes, technical stuff all! Sure that makes all the difference in the world, fill
that log and
become an "experienced" ham, for whatever good it will do you!



It is not, and is not
intended to be, comparable to a college degree...no matter how much
some people would like it to be so.

Agree again.

That's no surprise

Alun Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

Dee D. Flint wrote:
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
...

"Guessing" wrote in message
news:kTWPa.1427$Bd5.928@fed1read01...

"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
. 4...

"Guessing" wrote in
news:bXVPa.1425$Bd5.445@fed1read01:

Ask a lawyer about that one. Hey I want to be a BSEE, why do I have
to take History classes ????

You don't have to take history classes in some schools
to get a BSEE.



Broaden the category to Socio-Humanistic electives or whatever
equivalent term that your college uses and you will find that you do
have to take a certain amount of them. And everyone regardless of
major has to take English even though they should already be
proficient at that before they get there. You have to take quite a
few "unnecessary" courses in college to get a degree in any field.

Unless you are a "non-traditional student" at old PSU, you have to
take
Physical Education classes. My son is taking Karate this semester, as a
required course.

It has no bearing on his eventual carreer, yet he may elect to not
take
it, and not graduate. He has to take some history, to and there are
plenty of other classes that have a questionable relevence to his
eventual carreer.

Even the Electrical engineers have to take these classes.

The idea is actually sound, as it helps produce a more well
rounded
individual. It also takes into account that a person may not have the
same "core competencies" their entire career. A narrowly focused
education may prepare a person for a carreer that eventually
dissapears.

- Mike KB3EIA -



I might have known that you would think it was a good idea - I don't

When my son-in-law(a ham) was deciding which engineering discipline to major in (he
later graduated
cum laude in civil engineering) he discussed it with my daughter who suggested that
transportation
was a industry that isn't going away, so he became a highway engineer, working on
interstate and tollway projects. He has been steadily employed with a large stable
national company, and
does very well.
On the other hand, I read a number of electrical and digital engineers lamenting
the shipping of their work to offshore areas like India and the middle east (I read
that Microsoft is doing that - I wonder who they plan to sell their wares to when all
the good jobs here are gone?) where such engineering can be done at far less expense
than in the US.

Meanwhile, it's difficult to engineer a road project from the other side of the
planet!

Dick Carroll wrote:

Bill Sohl wrote:


"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote


An amateur radio license is a document awarded at the *beginning* of
one's participation in the hobby for the purpose of granting operating
privileges and to certify that the recipient has demonstrated entry
level knowledge at the class of license thus received.


And since the Extra class license is awarded to illiterates today, your point is at
least partly
valid. In past times the Extra class license wasn't issued to people whom the FCC
wasn't
pretty sure had the knowledge and ability to function at the top level of ham radio.
The Extra class license, at its inception, was never intended to be a entry level
license
at all. That you "modernists" conclude otherwise serves to confirm just how far the
"dumbing down" of the ARS has gone.




It won't get

you a job bagging groceries.


And definitely that was not always the case. I've landed a couple jobs in
electronics on
the strength of my ham ticket, and later partially so, since by that time I also held
a commercial
license. But knowledgble administraters used to consider a ham to be knowledgable in
electronics.; Again, that it isn't so these days speaks to just how far toward CB the
ARS has slid. Youi never saw
CBers beiong viewed as technically competent because of their participation in
ratchetjawing.
Sure looks like the same applies to today's voice-only hams!

So are you suggesting that the ham tests should be upgraded to
include chip design and surface mount technology? Those are the
technical skills required today.

JJ wrote:


Dick Carroll wrote:



JJ it's just another minor rrap irritant that you're another dip****
who spouts off
without
having a hint of a clue. No problem,we've had plenty of them here on
rrap to date.
You and Kim fit really well together.


Now I know I am getting under your skin when you resort to the childish
vulgar name calling. Good!


Oh, don't think just because you try to be anonymous that no one can
find out who
you are. That's been tried here before. If I was interested at all
I'd already know.
I'm not, but some others will probably be.


So who am I?

I will give you a clue, my Novice station was featured in one of
the early 1960's edition of Popular Electronics under the "Novice
Station Of the Month" column.

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:


If I were Larry Roll, I'd lament that I've seen so many people with
college degrees that still couldn't fill out a job application
properly, that the requirements for a college degree must have been
seriously dumbed down over the past thirty years, but I'm not, so I
won't.

John:

Well, if you won't, then allow me. I received my B.S. degree late in
life, having graduated in 1999. During the three years I went to college
at night and worked a full-time, 7-day-a-week job, I obtained a 3.88 GPA,
stayed on the Dean's List the full time, and graduated Summa. Many
times my professors complimented me on my work, saying that the
papers I submitted to them were of higher quality than even those they
had seen from graduate students. In fact, they told horror stories of
grad students submitting papers that were barely written in recognizable
English -- to the point where in one particular class several Master's
degree candidates were dismissed from the program and an investigation
started as to how they were granted Bachelor's degrees and subsequently
accepted into the Master's degree program. Apparently, if an honest
and objective evaluation of our colleges and universities were made, we
would, indeed, find alarming evidence of the "dumbing down" of our
educational system.

Nevertheless, I have worked with people who held engineering
degrees yet could not compose a coherent memo for circulation in their
own department.

I experienced the same situation all throughout my Air Force career.
I had only an Associate's degree at the time, but frequently found myself
having to do most of the reading, writing, reasearch, and ultimately
decision-making for my allegedly college-educated officers.

An amateur radio license is a document awarded at the *beginning* of
one's participation in the hobby for the purpose of granting operating
privileges and to certify that the recipient has demonstrated entry
level knowledge at the class of license thus received. It won't get
you a job bagging groceries. As for the accomplishments, those come
afterward when you actually start to make use of the privileges the
license conveys by putting Qs in your logbook. It is not, and is not
intended to be, comparable to a college degree...no matter how much
some people would like it to be so.

I don't recall anyone here ever attempting to make such a comparison.
A ham radio license is merely a document conferring operating privileges.
It is a license to learn and grow. Unfortunately, it doesn't always produce
that outcome.

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...


JJ wrote:

Dick Carroll wrote:



JJ you're about as dippy as they're made these days. One of us says he
beleives
that it's important for hams to learn to do morse code because it's a
good, really
simple and viable communications mode for hams, and suddenly you've
got us all
packaged up as ogres. You haven't a single clue, and you'r so far off
that
you have no clue that you have no clue. Probably a good thing,
dipschitz like you,
if intelligent, might be something of an annoyance. As it is you come
in somewhere
below a gnat.

I haven't packaged anyone who supports CW mode as an ogre, just
those who choose to use derogatory terms to describe fellow hams
who choose not to learn or use CW or put the importance on it you
do, you know, like those dumbed-down lowly, not "real hams"
good-for-nothing, no-techical knowledge, no-coders.

I must really get under your skin Dickie.

JJ it's just another minor rrap irritant that you're another dip**** who
spouts off
without
having a hint of a clue. No problem,we've had plenty of them here on rrap
to date.
You and Kim fit really well together.


Yeah, ROFLMAO...you notice Dick won't even try to respond to any of my
posts, at least directly. It's 'cause he knows I make good points--one he
cannot answer to.


Oh, don't think just because you try to be anonymous that no one can find
out who
you are. That's been tried here before. If I was interested at all I'd
already know.
I'm not, but some others will probably be.


And, so once you "find out" who JJ is, Dick, what would you be doing with
that? You're making veiled threats now, are you?

Kim W5TIT


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

(N2EY) wrote in news:20030712220142.21428.00001055@mb-
m23.aol.com:

In article , Alun Palmer
writes:

No true, what if the sound fails on your ATV setup and you are aboard a
sinking vessel?

Use ASL (American Sign Language)

73 de Jim, N2EY


I wasn't really serious. However, if you use ASL you better hope that a
deaf American is watching. There is also an international sign language,
which is completely different.

Dwight Stewart wrote:

"N2EY" wrote:

"Knowledge" in this context really means anything
that can be learned and known consciously by a person.

There are at least three different kinds of knowledge -
facts, concepts and skills.

Is there significant knowledge in using a hammer skillfully?



Dwight your ignorance is showing again--OF COURSE there is!





Facts are concrete pieces of information, and are
learned by pure memorization. "1 plus 1 equals 2
in base 10" is an arithmetic fact. A person can
know all sorts of facts with no understanding of
what they mean.

Concepts are understandings of how things work and
what they mean. Such as the concept of addition,
which requires understanding. Of course without
facts, very little can be done with pure concepts.

(snip) Most of what is on the written test is facts.
The Morse test is almost pure skill. Concepts get the
short end.

I'm not sure I can fully agree with that since the written tests do
require at least rudimentary understanding of scientific concepts like radio
waves, RF exposure, atmospheric affects on radio waves, and so on (all found
in even college level science textbooks, including Ohm's Law).

That would true be if one bothered to actually learn the background information on
the
questions that are in the pool. Most don't, since the objective is to pass the test
and
get the license. Learning is not a requirement.