Alun Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in
:


Dee D. Flint wrote:

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
...


"Guessing" wrote in message
news:kTWPa.1427$Bd5.928@fed1read01...


"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
.4...


"Guessing" wrote in
news:bXVPa.1425$Bd5.445@fed1read01:

Ask a lawyer about that one. Hey I want to be a BSEE, why do I have
to take History classes ????

You don't have to take history classes in some schools
to get a BSEE.



Broaden the category to Socio-Humanistic electives or whatever
equivalent term that your college uses and you will find that you do
have to take a certain amount of them. And everyone regardless of
major has to take English even though they should already be
proficient at that before they get there. You have to take quite a
few "unnecessary" courses in college to get a degree in any field.

Unless you are a "non-traditional student" at old PSU, you have to
take
Physical Education classes. My son is taking Karate this semester, as a
required course.

It has no bearing on his eventual carreer, yet he may elect to not
take
it, and not graduate. He has to take some history, to and there are
plenty of other classes that have a questionable relevence to his
eventual carreer.

Even the Electrical engineers have to take these classes.

The idea is actually sound, as it helps produce a more well
rounded
individual. It also takes into account that a person may not have the
same "core competencies" their entire career. A narrowly focused
education may prepare a person for a carreer that eventually
dissapears.

- Mike KB3EIA -




I might have known that you would think it was a good idea - I don't

Thanks, Alun! I've switched fields 5 times in the course of one career.
If I hadn't had a broad education, I wouldn't have been able to.

I've always jumped on every educational opporunity I could.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dick Carroll wrote:

JJ wrote:


Dick Carroll wrote:



JJ you're about as dippy as they're made these days. One of us says he beleives
that it's important for hams to learn to do morse code because it's a good, really
simple and viable communications mode for hams, and suddenly you've got us all
packaged up as ogres. You haven't a single clue, and you'r so far off that
you have no clue that you have no clue. Probably a good thing, dipschitz like you,
if intelligent, might be something of an annoyance. As it is you come in somewhere
below a gnat.

I haven't packaged anyone who supports CW mode as an ogre, just
those who choose to use derogatory terms to describe fellow hams
who choose not to learn or use CW or put the importance on it you
do, you know, like those dumbed-down lowly, not "real hams"
good-for-nothing, no-techical knowledge, no-coders.

I must really get under your skin Dickie.


JJ it's just another minor rrap irritant that you're another dip**** who spouts off
without
having a hint of a clue. No problem,we've had plenty of them here on rrap to date.
You and Kim fit really well together.

Oh, don't think just because you try to be anonymous that no one can find out who
you are. That's been tried here before. If I was interested at all I'd already know.
I'm not, but some others will probably be.

Speaking of which, where is our resident ferret, Steve? I haven't heard
from him in a while.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in :

Alun Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in
:


Dee D. Flint wrote:

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
...


"Guessing" wrote in message
news:kTWPa.1427$Bd5.928@fed1read01...


"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
. 1.4...


"Guessing" wrote in
news:bXVPa.1425$Bd5.445@fed1read01:

Ask a lawyer about that one. Hey I want to be a BSEE, why do I have
to take History classes ????

You don't have to take history classes in some schools
to get a BSEE.



Broaden the category to Socio-Humanistic electives or whatever
equivalent term that your college uses and you will find that you do
have to take a certain amount of them. And everyone regardless of
major has to take English even though they should already be
proficient at that before they get there. You have to take quite a
few "unnecessary" courses in college to get a degree in any field.

Unless you are a "non-traditional student" at old PSU, you have
to take
Physical Education classes. My son is taking Karate this semester, as
a required course.

It has no bearing on his eventual carreer, yet he may elect to
not take
it, and not graduate. He has to take some history, to and there are
plenty of other classes that have a questionable relevence to his
eventual carreer.

Even the Electrical engineers have to take these classes.

The idea is actually sound, as it helps produce a more well
rounded
individual. It also takes into account that a person may not have the
same "core competencies" their entire career. A narrowly focused
education may prepare a person for a carreer that eventually
dissapears.

- Mike KB3EIA -




I might have known that you would think it was a good idea - I don't

Thanks, Alun! I've switched fields 5 times in the course of one
career.
If I hadn't had a broad education, I wouldn't have been able to.

I've always jumped on every educational opporunity I could.

- Mike KB3EIA -



And learning history in an EE degree somehow helped you to do that???

JJ wrote in :



Dick Carroll wrote:

Bill Sohl wrote:


"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote


An amateur radio license is a document awarded at the *beginning* of
one's participation in the hobby for the purpose of granting
operating privileges and to certify that the recipient has
demonstrated entry level knowledge at the class of license thus
received.


And since the Extra class license is awarded to illiterates today,
your point is at
least partly
valid. In past times the Extra class license wasn't issued to people
whom the FCC wasn't pretty sure had the knowledge and ability to
function at the top level of ham radio. The Extra class license, at
its inception, was never intended to be a entry level license at all.
That you "modernists" conclude otherwise serves to confirm just how
far the "dumbing down" of the ARS has gone.




It won't get

you a job bagging groceries.


And definitely that was not always the case. I've landed a couple
jobs in
electronics on
the strength of my ham ticket, and later partially so, since by that
time I also held a commercial
license. But knowledgble administraters used to consider a ham to be
knowledgable in electronics.; Again, that it isn't so these days
speaks to just how far toward CB the ARS has slid. Youi never saw
CBers beiong viewed as technically competent because of their
participation in ratchetjawing. Sure looks like the same applies to
today's voice-only hams!

So are you suggesting that the ham tests should be upgraded to
include chip design and surface mount technology? Those are the
technical skills required today.



Not a bad idea. Let's do it!

"Phil Kane" wrote in message t.net...
On 11 Jul 2003 05:30:06 -0700, Brian wrote:

Please cite the manual giving explicit directions for gaining
permission to operate amateur radio in a country w/o a government, and
now without an occupying military force that has jurisdiction over my
person.

Ah, effendi, you are starting to understand.

Phil, I noticed you didn't cite the manual. Perhaps you are starting to understand.

Brian

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Still no citation from Arnie concerning his claim that NCI is on
record for less technical exams.

Still no answer from you concerning these questions about your alleged /T5
operation:

What callsign was used?
What rigs and antennas were used?
Who did the equipment belong to?
What amateur bands and modes were used?
What countries and continents were worked?
How were the QSLs delivered?

Why is it alleged?

Because you haven't provided any information about or confirmation of your
alleged operation.

Then how do you know about it?

Dwight Stewart wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote:

"Knowledge" in this context really means anything
that can be learned and known consciously by a person.

There are at least three different kinds of knowledge -
facts, concepts and skills.

Is there significant knowledge in using a hammer skillfully?

Yep, if you accept that skill is a type of knowledge. Besides the
skill of actually hammering, there's knowing what hammer to use for a
particular job, knowing how to hold the hammer and thing to be
hammered, and what safety precautions to take.

Facts are concrete pieces of information, and are
learned by pure memorization. "1 plus 1 equals 2
in base 10" is an arithmetic fact. A person can
know all sorts of facts with no understanding of
what they mean.

Concepts are understandings of how things work and
what they mean. Such as the concept of addition,
which requires understanding. Of course without
facts, very little can be done with pure concepts.

(snip) Most of what is on the written test is facts.
The Morse test is almost pure skill. Concepts get the
short end.

Why snip the skills definition?

I'm not sure I can fully agree with that since the written tests do
require at least rudimentary understanding of scientific concepts like radio
waves, RF exposure, atmospheric affects on radio waves, and so on (all found
in even college level science textbooks, including Ohm's Law).

Not really, Dwight.

Many of the written test questions are about the rules and regs, such
as band edges and power limits. Also symbol identification,
definitions, and other facts. One doesn't have to know what a kHz is
to know that the 40 meter band is 7000 to 7300 kHz. Nor does it
require an understanding of the operation of electronic components to
correctly identify which symbol is, say, a JFET.

More importantly, since the Q&A are all in the public domain, all that
is needed to get an answer correct is to identify which of the 4
answers is correct. How this is done by the testee and how much
understanding is involved is not a concern of the FCC or VEs as long
as there's no cheating involved. Rote memorization, word association,
and random guessing are all accepted ways of getting an answer
correct. Get enough answers correct and the license is issued.

For example, suppose a question asks for the length of a 40 meter
dipole made of wire and offers 4 answers. Someone could learn about
dipoles and get the correct answer. Or they could simply learn "40
meter dipole wire 66 feet" with absolutely no understanding of what a
dipole is other than that a 40 meter one is 66 feet long. In fact,
thinking about that one too much could get you in trouble because '40
meters' is actually about 131 feet.

I never saw much if anyhting about radio in any of the science
textbooks I had, grade school through college. I did see some stuff in
my engineering textbooks, though. But by then I had been a ham for 5
years.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Scientists dream of doing great things. Engineers do them." (usually
attributed to Wehrner Von Braun)

WWHD

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:24:18 GMT, Carl R. Stevenson wrote:

I have reported that, in my over 32 years in the RF communications
business, I have worked with MANY very competent engineers who
would be interested in ham radio, but can't/won't be bothered with
wasting their time jumping through a silly Morse code "hoop."

Gee, I went to grad school, took all the courses that I thought I
would like, didn't take any that I thought I wouldn't need, and
refused to do a dissertation or thesis because such things were
just a silly "hoop".

Why didn't they give me a PhD ?? I deserved it. ggg

these
are folks that could pass a technical test well beyond the Extra.
Do you doubt that, even without Morse proficiency, they could/would
make good hams and could contribute to the service?

Could they pass a snap test on operating procedure and regulations,
possibly an oral challenge (here we go with grad school again) before
that ogre, Examiner Kane?

Don't get me wrong, Cecil - you read my input to the Restructuring
Docket and you know that I was in favor of eliminating the code test.

Just not for the reasons that you are proffering.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ...


. . . amongst NCI's membership, and it should be pointed out
that this is the norm in the rest of the world and no real harm seems to
have come from the lack of restrictive sub-band-by-mode limitations such
as
those currently embodied in the Commission's Rules."

Simply stating the facts as perceived in terms of the membership's views.
This
is NOT NCI's issue though ... though, as I have said over and over, I
*personally*
would hate to see the digital/CW sub-bands overrun by SSB.


Carl check me here but wasn't it you who advocated the abandonment of
all mode setasides in order to be able to run wall-to-wall spread
spectrum on 20M?


Carl - wk3c

w3rv

(Brian) wrote in message . com...
(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Still no citation from Arnie concerning his claim that NCI is on
record for less technical exams.

Still no answer from you concerning these questions about your alleged /T5
operation:

What callsign was used?
What rigs and antennas were used?
Who did the equipment belong to?
What amateur bands and modes were used?
What countries and continents were worked?
How were the QSLs delivered?

Why is it alleged?

Because you haven't provided any information about or confirmation of your
alleged operation.

Then how do you know about it?

You have claimed here and elsewhere to have operated /T5 about a
decade ago. But you provided no details, even when directly asked. So
any reasonable person has cause to be skeptical.