Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Alun Palmer
writes:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in
. com:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article m, "Dee
D. Flint" writes:

If you wait for opportunity to knock, it never will.

"Knock" it off. Test element 1 is on the way OUT. Realize it.

WHOA!~ Lennie! You FINALLY accept this...?!?! Well gee
willikers! Then we can assume (remembering the caveat for "assuming",
of course) that you are going to bite the bullet and get
licensed...?!?!


I hope he does. He's running out of excuses.

Sorry, Alun, but I've already been licensed in radio (since 1956). :-)

What has that to do with amateur radio? You've mentioned your
commercial license (issued in 1956) so many times that you can only be
attempting to impress hams. Wow, Len. I'm impressed.

I've never expressed any real intent to get an amateur radio license in
here.

Why certainly you have, Leonard. You've told us on a number of
occasions of your interest dating back several decades. You told us
just a few years ago that you were going for an "Extra right out of the
box". So are we to believe your earlier statements or this one?

My involvement is to eliminate the US code test for any radio
license examination. It's as simple as that.

Well, it is as peculiar as that.

Dave K8MN

Vshah101 wrote:

From: Dave Heil k8mn

I don't want to talk to some older males. Thats not anti-social.

If we go by your rules, it certainly is.

Its still consistent. Those Hams are on the radio, not in person. For example,
those Hams at the "DXpedition" contacted other (anti-social) Hams on Sat night,
but did not meet anyone in person.

Fine, Vipul. Then those hams present with you must not have talked to
each other or to you. If they did otherwise, there was social
interaction. I've worked several hams in India any number of times over
the past couple of decades. I've never met them in person nor have I
telephoned them to chat and ask of their families. By your definition,
I'm anti-social.

That has nothing to do with the technical part of the hobby. The technical part
occurred during the antenna and equipment setup. There was plenty of operating
during the day, so operating on Sat night more represented the social aspect
more than any technical aspect. Therefore, this is how those Hams spent their
Sat night. Seems anti-social to me.

Who are you to tell people enjoying their hobby as a group what they
should be doing with their Saturdays?

You didn't go on a DXpedition.

They called it a DXpedition.

They were wrong. You've been corrected several times before but you
continue to put forth the error as fact. You are wrong.

Many Hams will work DX. They get a thrill from that. But, they won't talk
to
the person next door or to anyone in person.

Your record is stuck, Vipul. Your claim is simply another tired
stereotype offered without proof of any kind.

I gave an example above where the Hams contacted people through the radio, but
did not meet anyone in person. (Probably avoided it). This was not my local
club. It was a random group of Hams.

I hope we don't have a QSO, Vipul. I couldn't take the suspense of
waiting for you to show up at my door. Are you familiar with the term
"flakey"?

Dave K8MN

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:33:11 -0500, "Dan/W4NTI"
wrote:

Came within two questions of passing the Extra without cracking a book.

Further proof of the dumbing down of the ARS.

Huh??

I passed the General class written without cracking a book...it was
the code that took me a long time to learn. The theory I learned
through some 35 years as a radio hobbyist (with some helpful
experience repairing televisions part time shortly after high school)
before finally getting a ham ticket.

In Scott's case, what he's learned prior to taking the tests almost
took him through the Extra class written.

What's the difference whether you got the knowledge from a book or
from practical experience, as long as you have that knowledge? And how
does getting it from practical experience instead of from the book
prove anything at all related to the supposed dumbing down of the ARS?

Try cracking a book on logic, OM...pay special attention to the part
where they talk about non-sequitur. ;-)

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On 20 Jul 2003 02:22:23 GMT, (N2EY) wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Reading a report on how long it will likely take for the U.S. to ratify
and drop Morse requirements, we are given an estimate of two years.

Mike,

TWO YEARS?! Who estimates that?

Second time this question's been asked in this NG. Read the following
excerpt from Amateur Radio Newsline Report 1353, July 18, 2003:

How long will it take? Amateur Radio Newsline’s David Black, KB4KCH, has
that part of the story from our South East bureau in Birmingham Alabama.

--

Nobody can be quite certain when or even if the Morse requirement will
disappear in the United States, but here’s the way it has to play out thanks
to the way our government works.

Since the agreements reached at WRC ‘03 are essentially an international
treaty, the document has to be ratified by the United States Senate. Depending
on their workload, that could happen before years end or it could be put off
into the 2004 session or even beyond.

Senate approval has to take place can the FCC begin the process under the
Administrative Proceedures Act and issue a Notice of Inquiry. A Notice of
Inquirey or N-O-I is the first step in the rule making process to make any
change and gives the general public a chance to voice its opinion. And by
public we mean every American. Not just ham radio operators.

If there is enough interest shown in going ahead then a Notice of Proposed Rule
making will be issued that again invites public comment. This will be followed
by another time period for reply comments by those who might have arguments to
counter what some initial commenters have to say. Then matter goes to the
staff to prepare a Report and Order or Memorandum, Order and Opinion that is
circulated to the five Commissioners who run the agency. If they approve, then
the change become law on a date specified in the document.

So once again the rhetoric question of how long? Here’s our guess. About
two years minimum from the time the Senate ratifies the accords, but only if
the FCC decides to proceed immediately there after.

Why two years? Well as Fred Maia W5YI of the NCVEC pointed out to us, since
Novice Enhancement some two decades ago, just about every major change in the
structure of ham radio has taken about two years. Fred is a pretty good
Washington watcher and his guess is 2005 at the earliest. But for now, we will
all have to just wait and see.

For the Amateur Radio Newsline,. I’m David Black, KB4KCH, reporting.

On 21 Jul 2003 03:06:36 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

It is not unusual for amateur radio organizations to take a "politically
correct" stance code testing. Even FISTS, and organization which
hails itself as "The International Morse Preservation Society" does not
"officially" support the concept of Morse code testing for an amateur
radio license. I have been a member of FISTS, but haven't paid my
dues since '01. I may "re-join," even though my FISTS number is good
for life whether I pay the dues or not, since paying up only gets me a
rather lame newsletter.

Since I'm not that big a fan of CW, the FISTS newsletter - focusing
understandably on CW - wasn't all that interesting to me either, but I
did get a kick out of the little cartoons on the back of the few
issues I've seen...which incidentally were drawn by the very same
Arnie Macy, KT4ST, who occasionally takes time out from his busy
schedule to participate in this very NG.

I received my U.K. call, G0LYW, in 1989 whilst stationed at RAF
Mildenhall, UK. I operated mainly 40- and 20-meter CW, and, oddly
enough, a bunch of 2-meter SSB.

How were 2m operating conditions there, anyway? Seems like there might
be a lot of temperature inversion ducting going on with so much water
around. Just wondering.

Alun, my opinion of you as a ham is not dependant on your usage of CW.

That's not quite what you said in your last post to this thread, where
you agreed to consider a full-fledged ham an Extra who operated at
least 40% of the time in CW.

All I ask is that you don't whine about it, and that as a ham, you make an
effort to do something more challenging than just yakking into a
microphone. That would imply the use of at least one digital mode. CW
operation would be the icing on the cake, and go a long way to impress
me. However, I'm not here to be impressed by you, or anyone else. At
the end of the day, your participation as a ham will always be driven by
whatever provides you with the greatest satisfaction, and I don't begrudge
anyone having fun on their own terms.

Yeah...as long as "their own terms" happen to measure up to your
standards with respect to choice of operating modes. Come on, OM,
that's two-faced and you know it. Whether it's CW, phone, PSK31, SSTV,
packet, Hellshrieber, MSK16, or ATV, it's still radio, and this is the
Amateur *Radio* Service.

However, the code testing debate
was started by those claiming that code testing was impinging on the
development of technical skills within the ARS, which is patently untrue.

As far as I'm concerned, the code testing debate started back in 1975
when the Communicator Class license was proposed. Unless a no-code
license was proposed before that, in which case, feel free to
enlighten me.

Therefore, before you judge me, you must understand where I've been
coming from throughout this debate -- that code testing imparts a
useful skill on radio amateurs, and increases their overall communications
capabilities. Those who don't know the code or use it regularly simply
are not qualified to judge those who support code testing requirements.

Ever heard this befo "Judge not, lest ye yourself be judged?"

I for one would like to see a little less judging and a little more
mutual respect for our fellow hams. At the risk of sounding like a
broken record (anybody remember those?), it's all radio regardless.
Anyone who has bothered to obtain the license must have some interest
in radio, or so one might tend to think...so why not view that
interest as something in common and leave it at that?

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:15:33 GMT, Mike Coslo
wrote:

I didn't get my license until I was in my mid-40's, and now regret I
didn't get it a long time ago. Granted, I didn't get interested in the
ARS until the late 1990's, but if there is any advice I can give the
prospective ham is that "It's too much fun, don't waste ANY time getting
your ticket!"

I was 8 (no typo, that's eight) when I got interested in radio as a
hobby. I was 42 when I got my first ham license. I undoubtedly could
have passed the written tests through General while I was still in
high school. The main reason I didn't was the code test. Of course, I
didn't spend the intervening years in a vacuum - I learned a lot about
computers, and I spent a lot of time twiddling the dials on a general
coverage receiver and playing with scanners and thus still dabbled in
radio. Even did the 11-meter bit for awhile, until the supposed
"energy crisis" in 1977 led to the CB craze of the late 1970's and
everybody and their brother crowded onto what was then just 23
channels and began ignoring Part 95, thus ruining the band forever.

For what it's worth, I would and do give prospective hams pretty much
the same advice - take ten bucks down to the very next VE session you
can make and keep taking written tests until you flunk one or run out
of tests to take. If you know Morse, take Element one as well, if not,
you have a year to learn it before your CSCEs run out, and once you
pass it once you never have to touch it again if you don't want to.
Seems that in this area, about one or two in ten end up pursuing the
use of CW once they've passed the 5 WPM test (i.e. actually use the
mode on the air to make one or more contacts). On the other hand, I
know a couple of folks who have had a General ticket for over a year
and haven't even operated on HF yet, including at least one who has a
working HF station in the house (spouse uses it) but simply prefers
ragchewing with friends on two meters instead.

Again, to each their own - my feeling is, it's all radio regardless of
what mode one chooses to employ, and upon satisfying the licensing
requirements that happen to be in effect at the time one takes the
tests, it's up to each individual ham to decide how he or she wishes
to make use of the privileges that license bestows - and it is not up
to me to judge how someone else chooses to enjoy the hobby.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On 21 Jul 2003 03:54:36 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

[ Coslo-esque behavior mode ON ]

WHAT WERE YOU WAITING FOR? An engraved invitation?!?

US amateur radio has been around since BEFORE 1912.

Jay-suss! I'd say you were a LAZY, good-for-nothing bum for sitting
around SO LONG!

[ Coslo-esque behavior mode off ]

Or Roll-esque, or Carroll-esque, or.....

Some can't get enough pretty, engraved certificates. Those prove you are
SOMEBODY!!!

I'm not an award collector personally - my enjoyment comes from making
the contacts on the radio, and I feel no real need after having done
so to further prove that I can overcome the deficiencies of
international snail-mail in order to get a piece of paper that merely
proves what both I and the other op already know to be true (I'm in
his log, he's in mine).

Nevertheless, I can well understand the attraction to some of these
awards, as they allow an operator to set a goal for himself (or
herself) - working at least one station in all fifty states or
whatever - and then feel a sense of accomplishment when that goal is
achieved. Of course, one can do the same thing without bothering to
obtain the certificate. I've worked about 18 states to date, but the
only QSL cards I have are ones that the other op sent me because he
(or she) needed mine for worked all states - mostly folks I worked on
the Century Club nets on 40m and 80m phone.

You need a Worked All Certificates award.

There are so many awards out there, it would be virtually impossible
to collect all of them in a single lifetime, even if one did nothing
but eat (in the shack), sleep (very little), and operate.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Scotty:

Hey, I know what you mean about those darned ole outdated modes
of communication. Once you get your No-Code test General or
Extra, wanna make a sked to work some Hellschreiber with me?

Actually Larry, I might take you up on that one sometime. I've been
wanting to try that mode sometime. I'm swamped now, and I found that I
nuked my card interface ad FD, but in the next couple of weeks.......

Let me know when you're ready, Mike! I've still got to get my station put
back together in the wake of Field Day.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article ,
(Vshah101) writes:

I was a no-coder for 14 years, and I didn't like it!

With the whole spectrum of activities, and you still didn't like amateur
radio?
Not enough technical areas in amateur radio to interest you? You're not a
radio
amateur, youre an only-coder - someone that only likes code.

A no-coder stirred me up about 13 years ago, and I've been
stirred up about trying to make people see the stupidity of whining about
code testing ever since.

You only see the world as no-coders or coders. There's more to amateur radio
than that.

People are not missing anything by not upgrading, if the upgraded
privileges
don't provide anything more they wish.

Well, that's *your* excuse. It seems to be working for you. Hold on
to it, it's all you've got.

Like I said, there are many possible activites to participate in. If all you
see is CW HF, then thats all you've got.

Vipul:

I suggest you go to Google.com and read at least a couple of year's worth
of my posts before you make any further comments. It will get the taste of
dirty Nikes out of your mouth.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

I received my U.K. call, G0LYW, in 1989 whilst stationed at RAF
Mildenhall, UK. I operated mainly 40- and 20-meter CW, and, oddly
enough, a bunch of 2-meter SSB.

How were 2m operating conditions there, anyway? Seems like there might
be a lot of temperature inversion ducting going on with so much water
around. Just wondering.

John:

At the time, it was a VHF paradise. Great tropo-ducting openings which
pretty much covered most of Western Europe. I had a 7-element 2-meter
Yagi in my TV mast, and did quite well in spite of the fact that it wasn't
up very high (about 20' AGL). I had to keep below the peak of the roof
of my townhouse, so that's the best I could do.

As far as I'm concerned, the code testing debate started back in 1975
when the Communicator Class license was proposed. Unless a no-code
license was proposed before that, in which case, feel free to
enlighten me.

My own participation in the "online" code test debate dates back to
1991 when I returned from the UK and purchased my first US modem.
I had limited participation in Fidonet from the UK from late '89 to '91,
but at the time, the Ham Radio forum was tightly moderated, and anyone
with a pro-code stance was persona non-grata.

Therefore, before you judge me, you must understand where I've been
coming from throughout this debate -- that code testing imparts a
useful skill on radio amateurs, and increases their overall communications
capabilities. Those who don't know the code or use it regularly simply
are not qualified to judge those who support code testing requirements.

Ever heard this befo "Judge not, lest ye yourself be judged?"

Yup. However, I'm not "judging" anyone's soul here, just their relative
capabilities as a ham radio operator. That's a judgment I'm qualified to
make. One of the problems our society faces now is the lack of willingness
to be "judgmental." We have been indoctrinated by the liberal, political
elite to be "tolerant" of everyone's deficiencies, even when said
deficiencies are that individual's "choice." So, go ahead and call me
"intolerant" as well, because I'm certainly that!

I for one would like to see a little less judging and a little more
mutual respect for our fellow hams.

I see. And I also agree. However, I've spent the last 14 years in this
debate reacting to the blatant disrespect shown by the NCTA. Would
you care to comment on THEIR behaviour as well?

At the risk of sounding like a
broken record (anybody remember those?),

Yes, I do! Fortunately, all my music is now on CD's and cassette. You
see, I'm one of those technically-challenged pro-coders!

it's all radio regardless.

I've never said it was anything else.

Anyone who has bothered to obtain the license must have some interest
in radio, or so one might tend to think...so why not view that
interest as something in common and leave it at that?

I am more than willing to do so. However, when faced with the whining
objections of the NCTA, I will respond accordingly. Fair enough?

73 de Larry, K3LT