In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

On 12 Aug 2003 23:40:10 GMT, (N2EY) wrote:

Here's the definition anyway:

QFU? - What is the magnetic direction (or number) of the runway to be used?

QFU - The magnetic direction (or number) of the runway to be used is ...

I've never heard that on the ham bands, though.

I've never heard it on the aeronautical bands, either, even though
that's obviously the intended application of that particular Q-signal.

Of course.

Morse code was used in aviation from the earliest days until at least the
1950s.
Of course that's all gone now except for some range markers.

That's a relic from days long forgotten.

Gone, but not forgotten. Some years back I read an article in "Air and Space"
by someone who had been a commercial aviation radio operator in the '50s and
who had used Morse in that job.

Today they get that info from
ATIS before they even contact approach control.

Of course.

Didja know that there used to be questions on the common Q signals on the
written tests?

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(Reverend Jim at the Taxi stand) writes:

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

On 12 Aug 2003 23:40:10 GMT, (N2EY) wrote:

Here's the definition anyway:

QFU? - What is the magnetic direction (or number) of the runway to be used?

QFU - The magnetic direction (or number) of the runway to be used is ...

I've never heard that on the ham bands, though.

I've never heard it on the aeronautical bands, either, even though
that's obviously the intended application of that particular Q-signal.

Of course.

Morse code was used in aviation from the earliest days until at least the
1950s.
Of course that's all gone now except for some range markers.

Please tell us all about when you flew those old "A-N" ranges. :-)

VORs have been in use on civil airways since before 1960. A lot more
accurate, easier to use, much less pilot error than the "range markers."

That's a relic from days long forgotten.

Gone, but not forgotten. Some years back I read an article in "Air and Space"
by someone who had been a commercial aviation radio operator in the '50s and
who had used Morse in that job.

Oh, my, you love the past. :-)

I bought my first PC from a former TWA radio operator, John, who
managed ComSoft in Sun Valley, CA. He was selling computer
stuff because he'd been downsized from international flying long
before. Just a block from the intersection of San Fernando Road
and Vineland. John and his Dragon Lady retired years ago, a victim
of capitalism, unable to compete with CompUSA and Fry's Electronics.

Nice guy, told a lot of stories. Of flying, not about morsemanship.

Today they get that info from
ATIS before they even contact approach control.

Of course.

You KNOW what "ATIS" is, right? :-)

Didja know that there used to be questions on the common Q signals on the
written tests?

Didja know you can address all your written test content complaints to
the VEC QPC? They are radio amateurs themselves.

I'm sure they would include a question on "QFU" if any ham is expected
to line up his ham aircraft on a runway bearing.

Beep, beep.

LHA

Len Over 21 wrote:

Please tell us all about when you flew those old "A-N" ranges. :-)

Did they let you fly your model aircraft on some old airfields, Len? :-)

VORs have been in use on civil airways since before 1960. A lot more
accurate, easier to use, much less pilot error than the "range markers."


Oh, my, you love the past. :-)

An interesting comment coming from one who frequently brings up THE past
as well as his own past. :-)


Didja know you can address all your written test content complaints to
the VEC QPC? They are radio amateurs themselves.

I'm sure they would include a question on "QFU" if any ham is expected
to line up his ham aircraft on a runway bearing.

Beep, beep.

Why are you concerned? You're no more a radio amateur than you are a
pilot.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I was "intimately" involved with HF communications across the Pacific in
the 1960's at hours of my own choosing. My station also worked across
the Atlantic and across the Indian Ocean. It did so with less power
than yours and I was still a teenager.

Was this an amateur station? Was it capable of only working over
oceans, or could it work over land masses as well?

I was "intimately" involved with HF military communications, working
transatlantic and transpacific paths using a variety of log periodic,
inverted discone and rhombic antennas and either 10 kw or 45 kw
transmitters from 1968-1970. The station was in operation 24/7 but I
generally pulled eight hour shifts...

Of your own choosing, right?

Were you an "Air Force of One?"

I was "intimately" involved with in-country HF military operations for a
year in Vietnam.

I spent fifteen "intimate" years overseas with the U.S. Department of
State where I was responsible for all HF and VHF communications whether
by voice, asynchronous data or morse.

So this wasn't amateur radio either?

I've spent forty years as an active radio amateur, operating various
modes on bands from 1.8 through 432 MHz.

Why did you stop at 432 MHz? Even most store bought amateur UHF rigs
are capable of going up to 450 Mhz.

Oh, uhhh. Forgot. Superior Heil "doan do FM (tm Kelly)"

I can go on and on without ever
touching the recorded and evidencible facts of having spent three
years being actively involved with the latter. That grates on you.

Three years? Three measly years? It grates on me that you'd dare
compare your three years to my experience and pretend to have a lock on
knowledge.

Grates on you, huh?

Some people learn faster than others. Look at everyone's vastly
different learning experiences with Morse Cose to see what I mean.
Some are never able to learn it at all.

But with respect to radio theory and ops, perhaps Len is a quicker
learner than you. Perhaps not.

You tell me everyone if learns the same, and if so, I'll have to give
you this one. Unless Len actually has more than just the three years
RF experience that you reference.

And what of education? Can education play a role in knowledge?

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I was "intimately" involved with HF communications across the Pacific in
the 1960's at hours of my own choosing. My station also worked across
the Atlantic and across the Indian Ocean. It did so with less power
than yours and I was still a teenager.

Was this an amateur station?

It most certainly was.

Cool. What amateur call sign did you use?

Was it capable of only working over oceans, or could it work over land masses as well?

I wasn't simultaneously living on both coasts, Brian. Try to figure it
out.

Try not being so smug, David.

You never did say where you were; where your station could work across
the Pacific ocean, and across the Indian and Atlantic oceans. I'm
trying to think of a geographic location with "both coasts" and those
three oceans.

So kindly tell us what country that you operated from that had "both
coasts" and three oceans.

I was "intimately" involved with HF military communications, working
transatlantic and transpacific paths using a variety of log periodic,
inverted discone and rhombic antennas and either 10 kw or 45 kw
transmitters from 1968-1970. The station was in operation 24/7 but I
generally pulled eight hour shifts...

Of your own choosing, right?

What's the difference for purposes of discussion? Do you know anyone
who ever worked 24 hour days for a solid week?

Your comment, "of my own choosing" sounds very odd for a military
radio station.

You said that you had an amateur station, and you pulled military
shifts of your own choosing.

In your original statements above, did you really mean to string
together an amateur station from a country with two coasts and three
oceans, with your military station in Vietnam?

I was "intimately" involved with in-country HF military operations for a
year in Vietnam.

I spent fifteen "intimate" years overseas with the U.S. Department of
State where I was responsible for all HF and VHF communications whether
by voice, asynchronous data or morse.

So this wasn't amateur radio either?

Read it again and perhaps you'll figure it out.

But I thought this group was to discuss amateur radio. And you do get
after Len for bringing up other services communications, however long
ago it may have been.

I've spent forty years as an active radio amateur, operating various
modes on bands from 1.8 through 432 MHz.

Aren't you going to ask me if this was military communications or State
Department communications?

No. I recognize this as an amateur radio discussion group, and I
recognize that you are finally addressing amateur radio operations.
Congratulations.

Why did you stop at 432 MHz? Even most store bought amateur UHF rigs
are capable of going up to 450 Mhz.

Weak signal work on SSB and CW takes place in that area of the band.

It may. Or it may not.

That's where I happen to spend much of my time. Is that all right with
you?

Peachy.

Oh, uhhh. Forgot. Superior Heil "doan do FM (tm Kelly)"

I have a 440 rig at home. I use it occasionally. I use 2m FM

So your statement of frequency ranges above is inaccurate. It would
more accurately read, "1.8 to 450 MHz."

regularly. Looks like you've struck out on your attempt to hit a nerve,
little electrolyte.

No attempt made. I just figured that such a great ham as yourself was
short changing himself with such a limited portfolio of RF activity.

I can go on and on without ever
touching the recorded and evidencible facts of having spent three
years being actively involved with the latter. That grates on you.

Three years? Three measly years? It grates on me that you'd dare
compare your three years to my experience and pretend to have a lock on
knowledge.

Grates on you, huh?

Figure it out.

No problem.

Some people learn faster than others. Look at everyone's vastly
different learning experiences with Morse Cose to see what I mean.
Some are never able to learn it at all.

Learning rate isn't under discussion. Experience is.

Ah, No. You specifically said, "knowledge." Think about it. Can one
attain knowledge only through experience?

But with respect to radio theory and ops, perhaps Len is a quicker
learner than you. Perhaps not.

Ask him.

I wonder what he would say?

You tell me everyone if learns the same, and if so, I'll have to give
you this one.

Figure it out.

Ah, sorry. You don't get this one.

Unless Len actually has more than just the three years
RF experience that you reference.

Ask him. I'm sure he'll be happy to go on about it at great length.

Much like your military and dept. of state resume?

And what of education? Can education play a role in knowledge?

Figure it out.

Ah, you don't get this one either.

Dave, you deserve a much needed vacation from rrap. At least consider
it.

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I was "intimately" involved with HF communications across the Pacific in
the 1960's at hours of my own choosing. My station also worked across
the Atlantic and across the Indian Ocean. It did so with less power
than yours and I was still a teenager.

Was this an amateur station?

It most certainly was.

Cool. What amateur call sign did you use?

Mine.

Was it capable of only working over oceans, or could it work over land masses as well?

I wasn't simultaneously living on both coasts, Brian. Try to figure it
out.

Try not being so smug, David.

I wasn't being smug. I suggested that you ponder the question and try
to come up with a plausible answer.

You never did say where you were; where your station could work across
the Pacific ocean, and across the Indian and Atlantic oceans.

No, I didn't say. There are numerous places within the continent in
which we live where such is possible. Ponder the matter.

I'm
trying to think of a geographic location with "both coasts" and those
three oceans.

Keep pondering.

So kindly tell us what country that you operated from that had "both
coasts" and three oceans.

I never wrote that it "had" them. I wrote that I operated a station
capable to working across them.

I was "intimately" involved with HF military communications, working
transatlantic and transpacific paths using a variety of log periodic,
inverted discone and rhombic antennas and either 10 kw or 45 kw
transmitters from 1968-1970. The station was in operation 24/7 but I
generally pulled eight hour shifts...

Of your own choosing, right?

What's the difference for purposes of discussion? Do you know anyone
who ever worked 24 hour days for a solid week?

Your comment, "of my own choosing" sounds very odd for a military
radio station.

Those words don't appear in the paragraph concerning military
communications. You might want to read it again.

You said that you had an amateur station, and you pulled military
shifts of your own choosing.

I said nothing of the kind. If you have problems, maybe you can have
someone read it for you.

In your original statements above, did you really mean to string
together an amateur station from a country with two coasts and three
oceans, with your military station in Vietnam?

Those things were not strung together. Perhaps you can find someone
with writing skills explain the idea behind paragraphing.

I was "intimately" involved with in-country HF military operations for a
year in Vietnam.

I spent fifteen "intimate" years overseas with the U.S. Department of
State where I was responsible for all HF and VHF communications whether
by voice, asynchronous data or morse.

So this wasn't amateur radio either?

Read it again and perhaps you'll figure it out.

But I thought this group was to discuss amateur radio. And you do get
after Len for bringing up other services communications, however long
ago it may have been.

Where've you been? Did you read Len's material to which I replied?

I've spent forty years as an active radio amateur, operating various
modes on bands from 1.8 through 432 MHz.

Aren't you going to ask me if this was military communications or State
Department communications?

No. I recognize this as an amateur radio discussion group, and I
recognize that you are finally addressing amateur radio operations.
Congratulations.

Maybe you can congratulate Len as well, if he ever gets back from the
Korean War.

Why did you stop at 432 MHz? Even most store bought amateur UHF rigs
are capable of going up to 450 Mhz.

Weak signal work on SSB and CW takes place in that area of the band.

It may. Or it may not.

My logs say that it does.

That's where I happen to spend much of my time. Is that all right with
you?

Peachy.

Oh, uhhh. Forgot. Superior Heil "doan do FM (tm Kelly)"

I have a 440 rig at home. I use it occasionally. I use 2m FM

So your statement of frequency ranges above is inaccurate. It would
more accurately read, "1.8 to 450 MHz."

It is much more accurate than your statements in which you could not
properly attribute the words "of my own choosing".

regularly. Looks like you've struck out on your attempt to hit a nerve,
little electrolyte.

No attempt made. I just figured that such a great ham as yourself was
short changing himself with such a limited portfolio of RF activity.

You may consider my words as a mere summary.

I can go on and on without ever
touching the recorded and evidencible facts of having spent three
years being actively involved with the latter. That grates on you.

Three years? Three measly years? It grates on me that you'd dare
compare your three years to my experience and pretend to have a lock on
knowledge.

Grates on you, huh?

Figure it out.

No problem.

Then why'd you ask a question?

Some people learn faster than others. Look at everyone's vastly
different learning experiences with Morse Cose to see what I mean.
Some are never able to learn it at all.

Learning rate isn't under discussion. Experience is.

Ah, No. You specifically said, "knowledge." Think about it. Can one
attain knowledge only through experience?

Most certainly.

But with respect to radio theory and ops, perhaps Len is a quicker
learner than you. Perhaps not.

Ask him.

I wonder what he would say?

Let me repeat: Ask him.

You tell me everyone if learns the same, and if so, I'll have to give
you this one.

Figure it out.

Ah, sorry. You don't get this one.

You can't give what isn't yours.

Unless Len actually has more than just the three years
RF experience that you reference.

Ask him. I'm sure he'll be happy to go on about it at great length.

Much like your military and dept. of state resume?

Resume? You mean the summary to counter Len's absurdity?

And what of education? Can education play a role in knowledge?

Figure it out.

Ah, you don't get this one either.

Ah, you haven't figured it out.

Dave, you deserve a much needed vacation from rrap. At least consider
it.

I've considered it. My response is: No.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

about a post to James Miccolis

Len Over 21 wrote:

Please tell us all about when you flew those old "A-N" ranges. :-)

Did they let you fly your model aircraft on some old airfields, Len? :-)

Not "old" ones. Try Apollo Field at the Sepulveda Dam Recreation
Area in Los Angeles' San Fernando Valley. Real runway and ramp.
Popular with the Large Scale R/C groups here. Lots of model helo
flying too.

Model aircraft hobbyists lobbied for and got a whole bunch of 72 MHz
channels for R/C some while back. They still have them. Look in
Part 95, Title 47 CFR.


VORs have been in use on civil airways since before 1960. A lot more
accurate, easier to use, much less pilot error than the "range markers."

Oh, my, you love the past. :-)

An interesting comment coming from one who frequently brings up THE past
as well as his own past. :-)

The OLD "range markers" (actually "range beacon system") went
out with civil aviation way back in 1955 with new ICAO rules on
radio and radionavigation.

VOR or Very high frequency Omnidirectional radio Range, offers at
least a quantum leap over the old morse keyed "A-N" beacons.
Anyone claiming they do air navigation by those old "A-N" beacons
is at least 48 years out of touch with reality.

Morsemen tend to be out of touch with reality.

Didja know you can address all your written test content complaints to
the VEC QPC? They are radio amateurs themselves.

I'm sure they would include a question on "QFU" if any ham is expected
to line up his ham aircraft on a runway bearing.

Beep, beep.

Why are you concerned? You're no more a radio amateur than you are a
pilot.

I've designed and proved civil aviation radionavigation avionics. Those
worked very well.

Of course that was as a professional, something you detest.

I passed my US private pilot written exam in 1962. Gave up piloting
due to cost...$17.50/hour dual, $12.00/hour solo back then. A typical
four-place, single-engine, retractable-gear light aircraft back then cost
$30K (Mooney, only bare essentials of instrumentation). Hull insurance
premiums were 10% annual for beginning pilot-owners.

Back in 1963 my house purchase price was $30,500. It is now worth
about $375 to $390 thousand if I were to put it on the market. I made a
wise move to invest in real estate instead of a cute lil airplane...those
haven't appreciated very much in 40 years.

What the hell is your problem, Herr Robust? AVIATION isn't the
subject of this thread...someone else brought up aviation. You don't
have anything to do with aviation except to rack up frequent cryer
miles in here.

You don't know a VORTAC from hardtack. If you heard ATCRBS
pronounced you would think it an insect infestation. Pfffft.

LHA.

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I was "intimately" involved with HF communications across the Pacific in
the 1960's at hours of my own choosing. My station also worked across
the Atlantic and across the Indian Ocean. It did so with less power
than yours and I was still a teenager.

Was this an amateur station?

It most certainly was.

Cool. What amateur call sign did you use?

Mine.

Was it capable of only working over oceans, or could it work over land masses as well?

I wasn't simultaneously living on both coasts, Brian. Try to figure it
out.

Try not being so smug, David.

I wasn't being smug. I suggested that you ponder the question and try
to come up with a plausible answer.

Dave, this basically shows that you are smug without even trying, or
even being cognizant of it.

You never did say where you were; where your station could work across
the Pacific ocean, and across the Indian and Atlantic oceans.

No, I didn't say. There are numerous places within the continent in
which we live where such is possible. Ponder the matter.

OK.

I'm
trying to think of a geographic location with "both coasts" and those
three oceans.

Keep pondering.

I am. I'm still trying to think of a location that has a coast on the
Indian Ocean, a coast on the Atlantic Ocean, and able to work across
the Pacific Ocean with intimate involvement.

So kindly tell us what country that you operated from that had "both
coasts" and three oceans.

I never wrote that it "had" them. I wrote that I operated a station
capable to working across them.

Now you want me to believe that a landmass has no coasts nor adjoining
oceans?

I was "intimately" involved with HF military communications, working
transatlantic and transpacific paths using a variety of log periodic,
inverted discone and rhombic antennas and either 10 kw or 45 kw
transmitters from 1968-1970. The station was in operation 24/7 but I
generally pulled eight hour shifts...

Of your own choosing, right?

What's the difference for purposes of discussion? Do you know anyone
who ever worked 24 hour days for a solid week?

Your comment, "of my own choosing" sounds very odd for a military
radio station.

Those words don't appear in the paragraph concerning military
communications. You might want to read it again.

The occur in the paragraph where you didn't define the communication
service that you used. You might want to be a little more clear in
your web communications.

You said that you had an amateur station, and you pulled military
shifts of your own choosing.

I said nothing of the kind. If you have problems, maybe you can have
someone read it for you.

Maybe, but I wouldn't want them to suffer through your usual muddy
communications.

In your original statements above, did you really mean to string
together an amateur station from a country with two coasts and three
oceans, with your military station in Vietnam?

Those things were not strung together. Perhaps you can find someone
with writing skills explain the idea behind paragraphing.

It wouldn't be you.

I was "intimately" involved with in-country HF military operations for a
year in Vietnam.

I spent fifteen "intimate" years overseas with the U.S. Department of
State where I was responsible for all HF and VHF communications whether
by voice, asynchronous data or morse.

So this wasn't amateur radio either?

Read it again and perhaps you'll figure it out.

But I thought this group was to discuss amateur radio. And you do get
after Len for bringing up other services communications, however long
ago it may have been.

Where've you been? Did you read Len's material to which I replied?

I read what you tell Len when he tries to bring up his radio
communication experiences.

I've spent forty years as an active radio amateur, operating various
modes on bands from 1.8 through 432 MHz.

Aren't you going to ask me if this was military communications or State
Department communications?

No. I recognize this as an amateur radio discussion group, and I
recognize that you are finally addressing amateur radio operations.
Congratulations.

Maybe you can congratulate Len as well, if he ever gets back from the
Korean War.

How can this be possible? You continually remind the world that Len
has no amateur experience.

Why did you stop at 432 MHz? Even most store bought amateur UHF rigs
are capable of going up to 450 Mhz.

Weak signal work on SSB and CW takes place in that area of the band.

It may. Or it may not.

My logs say that it does.

Both.

That's where I happen to spend much of my time. Is that all right with
you?

Peachy.

Oh, uhhh. Forgot. Superior Heil "doan do FM (tm Kelly)"

I have a 440 rig at home. I use it occasionally. I use 2m FM

So your statement of frequency ranges above is inaccurate. It would
more accurately read, "1.8 to 450 MHz."

It is much more accurate than your statements in which you could not
properly attribute the words "of my own choosing".

If you would only be more clear.

regularly. Looks like you've struck out on your attempt to hit a nerve,
little electrolyte.

No attempt made. I just figured that such a great ham as yourself was
short changing himself with such a limited portfolio of RF activity.

You may consider my words as a mere summary.

I consider them as mere words.

I can go on and on without ever
touching the recorded and evidencible facts of having spent three
years being actively involved with the latter. That grates on you.

Three years? Three measly years? It grates on me that you'd dare
compare your three years to my experience and pretend to have a lock on
knowledge.

Grates on you, huh?

Figure it out.

No problem.

Then why'd you ask a question?

I just wanted to verify that you experience what the rest of us would
call, "emotion."

Some people learn faster than others. Look at everyone's vastly
different learning experiences with Morse Cose to see what I mean.
Some are never able to learn it at all.

Learning rate isn't under discussion. Experience is.

Ah, No. You specifically said, "knowledge." Think about it. Can one
attain knowledge only through experience?

Most certainly.

Then put the things that you are willing to say, but unwilling to
discuss, in brackets [xxx].

But with respect to radio theory and ops, perhaps Len is a quicker
learner than you. Perhaps not.

Ask him.

I wonder what he would say?

Let me repeat: Ask him.

I think with respect to radio theory and ops, he would say that he
were the quicker learner.

You tell me everyone if learns the same, and if so, I'll have to give
you this one.

Figure it out.

Ah, sorry. You don't get this one.

You can't give what isn't yours.

It's done every day. Have you never heard of government?

Unless Len actually has more than just the three years
RF experience that you reference.

Ask him. I'm sure he'll be happy to go on about it at great length.

Much like your military and dept. of state resume?

Resume? You mean the summary to counter Len's absurdity?

Absurdity is a land location with two coasts and three oceans.

And what of education? Can education play a role in knowledge?

Figure it out.

Ah, you don't get this one either.

Ah, you haven't figured it out.

I've figured out that you've run out of anything that matters.

Dave, you deserve a much needed vacation from rrap. At least consider
it.

I've considered it. My response is: No.

Dave K8MN

Then continue to be "grated."

Dave Heil wrote :

I was "intimately" involved with HF military communications, working
transatlantic and transpacific paths using a variety of log periodic,
inverted discone and rhombic antennas and either 10 kw or 45 kw
transmitters from 1968-1970. The station was in operation 24/7 but I
generally pulled eight hour shifts...

Don't forget my favorites, the Sterba Curtains (SAC "Short Order")
on the six towers in a hexagon.....

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

On 15 Aug 2003 15:27:46 -0700, (Brian) wrote:


Now you want me to believe that a landmass has no coasts nor adjoining
oceans?

I can think of one place that fits that description. You get there
after departing Christchurch, New Zealand, aboard an LC-130. Nowadays,
at least - back then maybe not. The 109th AMW in Schenectady, NY flies
the LC-130s. Dave, am I warm?

73 DE John, KC2HMZ