S. Hanrahan wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:38:36 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

The exam does not exclude anyone who cares to make the effort to learn. And
Farnsworth IS Morse since it relates a letter directly to a sound without
counting dots and dashes.

Actually the Farnsworth method is Morse Code

It is not.

Only at 20 WPM does Farnsworth and Morse use the same character and word rate.

In article , S. Hanrahan
writes:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:38:36 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

The exam does not exclude anyone who cares to make the effort to learn. And
Farnsworth IS Morse since it relates a letter directly to a sound without
counting dots and dashes.

Actually the Farnsworth method is Morse Code sent at a constant rate
of speed, 18 WPM actually, yet at lower speeds the spacing between
each character is increased while attaining the same rate of speed of
18 WPM for each character.

I think the rate may be 15 wpm, the principle is the same.

By the time one becomes proficient enough to copy Morse Code, counting
out the dits and dahs is moot at best.

Actually, those taking Element 1 have the option of Farnsworth-spaced Morse at
5 wpm or "regularly spaced" 5 wpm Morse (characters sent at 5 wpm). All VECs
can supply either if requested in advance.

The main reasons Farnsworth spacing is used a

1) It allows more time between characters to recognize and write down

2) It avoids many of the bad habits such as "counting dits".

btw, W1AW has been sending the slower Morse code practice sessions using
Farnsworth spacing for at least 40 years

73 de Jim, N2EY

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"Dick" =3D=3D Dick Carroll; writes:

Jack In my limited experience, I learn more characters faster with
Jack Farnsworth spacing, but I'm concerned that I'm building a lookup
Jack table instead of reflexes. It's the difference between
Jack "dahdidah, hmm, that's K, dahdah, hmm, that's M" and "dahdidah
Jack (K) dahdah (M)". I learned eight or nine characters with
Jack Farnsworth spacing, but I can't repeat the performance at full
Jack speed, so I fear that I'm learning something that won't be
Jack useful if I continue to use Farnsworth spacing.

Dick That's where practice comes in. Learn to recognize the
Dick characters, then listen to code off the air or what ever othen
Dick non-familiar source you may have available. Soon you find that
Dick you don't use anything like a looktable any more, it just comes
Dick in as letters, and then words that you recognize like
Dick speech. The more familiar you become, the longer words begin to
Dick come through as words, just like the shorter ones did earlier,
Dick and so on it goes. You build a Morse vocabulary of words. But
Dick it does take practice.

I do have a couple of questions, though. Which spacing is more
commonly found in "real code" -- full speed or Farnsworth spacing?
When people learn to receive code with Farnsworth spacing, do they
also learn to send with Farnsworth spacing? Those two things have
puzzled me but I haven't found any real answers.

Dick 73, Dick

Jack.
=2D --=20
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...


"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
S. Hanrahan wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:38:36 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

The exam does not exclude anyone who cares to make the effort to
learn.
And
Farnsworth IS Morse since it relates a letter directly to a sound
without
counting dots and dashes.

Actually the Farnsworth method is Morse Code

It is not.

Only at 20 WPM does Farnsworth and Morse use the same character and
word
rate.

Nowhere is there a definition that says the character rate and word rate
MUST be the same for it to be Morse. There is standard spacing and
Farnsworth spacing and the variety of spacing that you hear on the air.
There are some really fine operators who have near perfect standard
spacing
but the rest of us vary. That doesn't mean we aren't sending Morse. If
you
read the manuals on Morse, they give recommended element, character, and
word spacings for standard operation but that is all. It does not
mandate
that the relative spacing meet any particular standard to be considered
Morse code.

Dee, you just destroyed his most reliable rant with one short burst!

Actually, I believe there is an ITU-R Recommendation that specifies
the "International Morse Code" in typical ITU detail.

I will see if I can locate it ...

Carl - wk3c

Jack Twilley wrote in message ...

. . . . . The practice files I'm building for my web site
have a word speed of five words per minute and a character speed of
twenty words per minute.

Stacey By the time one becomes proficient enough to copy Morse Code,
Stacey counting out the dits and dahs is moot at best.

In my limited experience, I learn more characters faster with
Farnsworth spacing, but I'm concerned that I'm building a lookup table
instead of reflexes. It's the difference between "dahdidah, hmm,
that's K, dahdah, hmm, that's M" and "dahdidah (K) dahdah (M)". I
learned eight or nine characters with Farnsworth spacing, but I can't
repeat the performance at full speed, so I fear that I'm learning
something that won't be useful if I continue to use Farnsworth
spacing.

Try it the other way, 12-15 wpm character speeds at 5 wpm.


Jack Twilley

w3rv

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

Actually, I believe there is an ITU-R Recommendation that specifies
the "International Morse Code" in typical ITU detail.


Operative word is recommendation, which is exactly what I said.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...
S. Hanrahan wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:38:36 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

The exam does not exclude anyone who cares to make the effort to learn.
And
Farnsworth IS Morse since it relates a letter directly to a sound
without
counting dots and dashes.

Actually the Farnsworth method is Morse Code

It is not.

Only at 20 WPM does Farnsworth and Morse use the same character and word
rate.

Nowhere is there a definition that says the character rate and word rate
MUST be the same for it to be Morse.

Then it's not Morse Code.

There is standard spacing and
Farnsworth spacing and the variety of spacing that you hear on the air.
There are some really fine operators who have near perfect standard spacing
but the rest of us vary. That doesn't mean we aren't sending Morse.

It means that we are desparately trying to, except in the case of
DICK/W0EX who purposely sends poor code in order to thwart the
computer code readers.

He should be cited.

If you
read the manuals on Morse, they give recommended element, character, and
word spacings for standard operation but that is all.

Recommended?

It does not mandate
that the relative spacing meet any particular standard to be considered
Morse code.

So you say that Morse cannot be defined, yet the FCC demands you pass
an exam that has barred people from the medium and high frequencies.
It is whatever you want it to be.

hihi

That doesn't sound like good government to me.

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
S. Hanrahan wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:38:36 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

The exam does not exclude anyone who cares to make the effort to learn.
And
Farnsworth IS Morse since it relates a letter directly to a sound
without
counting dots and dashes.

Actually the Farnsworth method is Morse Code

It is not.

Only at 20 WPM does Farnsworth and Morse use the same character and word
rate.

Nowhere is there a definition that says the character rate and word rate
MUST be the same for it to be Morse. There is standard spacing and
Farnsworth spacing and the variety of spacing that you hear on the air.
There are some really fine operators who have near perfect standard spacing
but the rest of us vary. That doesn't mean we aren't sending Morse. If you
read the manuals on Morse, they give recommended element, character, and
word spacings for standard operation but that is all. It does not mandate
that the relative spacing meet any particular standard to be considered
Morse code.

Dee, you just destroyed his most reliable rant with one short burst!

You would like to think that, DICK, but it is to far from the truth.

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
Jack Twilley wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"Dick" == Dick Carroll; writes:

Jack In my limited experience, I learn more characters faster with
Jack Farnsworth spacing, but I'm concerned that I'm building a lookup
Jack table instead of reflexes. It's the difference between
Jack "dahdidah, hmm, that's K, dahdah, hmm, that's M" and "dahdidah
Jack (K) dahdah (M)". I learned eight or nine characters with
Jack Farnsworth spacing, but I can't repeat the performance at full
Jack speed, so I fear that I'm learning something that won't be
Jack useful if I continue to use Farnsworth spacing.

Dick That's where practice comes in. Learn to recognize the
Dick characters, then listen to code off the air or what ever othen
Dick non-familiar source you may have available. Soon you find that
Dick you don't use anything like a looktable any more, it just comes
Dick in as letters, and then words that you recognize like
Dick speech. The more familiar you become, the longer words begin to
Dick come through as words, just like the shorter ones did earlier,
Dick and so on it goes. You build a Morse vocabulary of words. But
Dick it does take practice.

I do have a couple of questions, though. Which spacing is more
commonly found in "real code" -- full speed or Farnsworth spacing?
When people learn to receive code with Farnsworth spacing, do they
also learn to send with Farnsworth spacing? Those two things have
puzzled me but I haven't found any real answers.

I personally like to use a Farnsworth style of sending at lower speeds. It just works
better. You hear all sorts of code out there and get used to most all of it with time,
but the stations sending slower code via a Farnsworth type of spacing are easiest to copy,
just as learning the code via Farnsworth practice makes it easier to learn.
As someone already said, it all comes together at around 20wpm anyway.
But at slower speeds Farnsworth spacing has definite advantages.

Dick

Since when? You're on record for preferring the banana boat swing.

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
Jack Twilley wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"Dick" == Dick Carroll; writes:

Jack In my limited experience, I learn more characters faster with
Jack Farnsworth spacing, but I'm concerned that I'm building a lookup
Jack table instead of reflexes. It's the difference between
Jack "dahdidah, hmm, that's K, dahdah, hmm, that's M" and "dahdidah
Jack (K) dahdah (M)". I learned eight or nine characters with
Jack Farnsworth spacing, but I can't repeat the performance at full
Jack speed, so I fear that I'm learning something that won't be
Jack useful if I continue to use Farnsworth spacing.

Dick That's where practice comes in. Learn to recognize the
Dick characters, then listen to code off the air or what ever othen
Dick non-familiar source you may have available. Soon you find that
Dick you don't use anything like a looktable any more, it just comes
Dick in as letters, and then words that you recognize like
Dick speech. The more familiar you become, the longer words begin to
Dick come through as words, just like the shorter ones did earlier,
Dick and so on it goes. You build a Morse vocabulary of words. But
Dick it does take practice.

I do have a couple of questions, though. Which spacing is more
commonly found in "real code" -- full speed or Farnsworth spacing?
When people learn to receive code with Farnsworth spacing, do they
also learn to send with Farnsworth spacing? Those two things have
puzzled me but I haven't found any real answers.

I personally like to use a Farnsworth style of sending at lower speeds. It just works
better. You hear all sorts of code out there and get used to most all of it with time,
but the stations sending slower code via a Farnsworth type of spacing are easiest to copy,
just as learning the code via Farnsworth practice makes it easier to learn.
As someone already said, it all comes together at around 20wpm anyway.
But at slower speeds Farnsworth spacing has definite advantages.

Dick

Dick, I'm the someone who "said" and you constantly claim I know nothing of Morse.

Farnswoth is the preferred method for learning 20wpm Morse Code.