"Jason Hsu" wrote in message
om...
Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who
refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need
to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? I know it's a free country, and
there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra
privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going
to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe.

Believe it, Jason.

Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING
high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests. All the
Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam
requirements years ago. It says nothing about what you have been
doing since. People who want to brag about their Morse Code
proficiency can do so much less obnoxiously by actually USING it on
the air.

It's a free country, relax. Some do both and after all...passing the 13-wpm
test IS an accomplishment and something worthy of being proud of.

Jason Hsu, AG4DG


--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

Some do both and after all...passing the 13-wpm
test IS an accomplishment and something worthy of being proud of.

Jason Hsu, AG4DG

Which the No-Code Knuckle Draggers will never be able to do. This alone will
keep them always as second rate Hams with CB, being there main accomplishment

In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

I found this comment on eham.net:
"I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I
had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away
with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm.
It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from
gaining acess to our bands. "

The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof of code
speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm.

Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who
refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need
to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam?

There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof of
code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per.

I know it's a free country, and
there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra
privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going
to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe.

If somebody wants to know my code skills and technical knowledge, I don't point
to a license test I took in 1970. Instead, I just show 'em.

Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING
high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests.

We do! 13 wpm isn't high speed, tho.

All the
Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam
requirements years ago.

Not even that. Medical waivers, etc.

It says nothing about what you have been
doing since. People who want to brag about their Morse Code
proficiency can do so much less obnoxiously by actually USING it on
the air.

No need to brag. Just show 'em.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(WA8ULX) wrote in message ...
Some do both and after all...passing the 13-wpm
test IS an accomplishment and something worthy of being proud of.

Jason Hsu, AG4DG

Which the No-Code Knuckle Draggers will never be able to do. This alone will
keep them always as second rate Hams with CB, being there main accomplishment

Jason, meet Bruce Bunion, WA8ULX. He's one of the originators of the
"I won't upgrade" Advanced Operators Club. What's his most recent
claim to fame? Run his call on QRZ and see.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

I found this comment on eham.net:
"I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I
had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away
with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm.
It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from
gaining acess to our bands. "

The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof of code
speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm.

Although true, the fact of a waiver is in the FCC's database (there's a field
for it). As an excuse not to upgrade to extra, it's probably one of the lamest
ideas around. Upon upgrade, one will still have the "prior class held" field
that will say advanced, so with the combination of these two data fields, we
will know that a person once held an advanced class license WITHOUT the medical
waiver and thus officially passed the 13wpm code element. [Whether or not the
person actually took the test or just paid for his license will generally never
be known!]

To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who failed
to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit for
the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only for a
3.5 month window...

What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30 session
I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to general
no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect....

Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who
refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need
to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam?

There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof of
code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per.

When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19,
2000 extras).

I know it's a free country, and
there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra
privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going
to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe.

If somebody wants to know my code skills and technical knowledge, I don't point
to a license test I took in 1970. Instead, I just show 'em.

Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING
high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests.

We do! 13 wpm isn't high speed, tho.

All the
Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam
requirements years ago.

Not even that. Medical waivers, etc.

...

Jason, meet Bruce Bunion, WA8ULX. He's one of the originators of the
"I won't upgrade" Advanced Operators Club. What's his most recent
claim to fame? Run his call on QRZ and see.

I may have said that, but when I could collect $250.00 on a BET to upgrade I
did. But dont worry Brian I still have not used the EXTRA Privilages.
By the way Jason, Brian is one of the Weenies who couldnt make it above Tech
untill the Welfare upgrade came out. He also claimed the CW was the only thing
that was holding him back from Upgrading. And that the Written Test were no
problem. After a year he still cant pass the EXTRA. Hes waiting for the next
give away so he can upgrade.

In article , "D. Stussy"
writes:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

I found this comment on eham.net:
"I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I
had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away
with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm.
It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from
gaining acess to our bands. "

The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof of
code
speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm.

Although true, the fact of a waiver is in the FCC's database (there's a field
for it).

True - but you have to dig up the database and know what to look for. The
license itself doesn't show waiver status, IIRC.

As an excuse not to upgrade to extra, it's probably one of the
lamest ideas around.

Agreed!

Upon upgrade, one will still have the "prior class held" field
that will say advanced, so with the combination of these two data fields, we
will know that a person once held an advanced class license WITHOUT the
medical
waiver and thus officially passed the 13wpm code element.

Not in all cases. Look me up in the data base - no entry for "former license
class", even though I was Advanced from 1968 to 1970 (old 2 year waiting
period)


[Whether or not
the
person actually took the test or just paid for his license will generally
never
be known!]

"just paid for his license"?

To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who
failed
to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit for
the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only for
a
3.5 month window...

Maybe. But I think current Element 4 is no harder than old Element 4B.

What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30
session
I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to general
no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect....

I'm not surprised. Many hams I know do not follow the rules changes anywhere
near as closely as some of us do. Look at restructuring - out of over 678,000
hams, FCC got 2200 or so comments.

Some folks are just finding out what the changes mean. And with 10 year
renewals, folks who don't move around have very little interaction with FCC
license procedures. The facts are often twisted in the retelling, too. Look at
the misunderstanding about Element 1 and Technicians....

Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who
refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need
to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam?

There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof
of
code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per.

When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19,
2000 extras).

But you need more info that just the fact that the person holds a certain
license class.


I know it's a free country, and
there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra
privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going
to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe.

If somebody wants to know my code skills and technical knowledge, I don't
point
to a license test I took in 1970. Instead, I just show 'em.

Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING
high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests.

We do! 13 wpm isn't high speed, tho.

All the
Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam
requirements years ago.

Not even that. Medical waivers, etc.

...


Fun fact:

From May 14 2000 to July 31, 2003, the number of Advanceds dropped from
99,782 to 83,141. That includes upgrades to Extra and dropouts. Only a 17%
decline in over three years.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jason,

W2NSD comes to mind


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"Jason Hsu" wrote in message
om...
I found this comment on eham.net:
"I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I
had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away
with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm.
It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from
gaining acess to our bands. "

Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who
refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need
to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? I know it's a free country, and
there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra
privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going
to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe.

Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING
high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests. All the
Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam
requirements years ago. It says nothing about what you have been
doing since. People who want to brag about their Morse Code
proficiency can do so much less obnoxiously by actually USING it on
the air.

Jason Hsu, AG4DG



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

Jim,

I found my old 2nd class commercial telegraph ticket. Would that support
the no medical waivers? Of course, does that prove I could still do 20
words per minute (which is the question you have been asking; good question
indeed). Gad, I've got but about two weeks and my license expires. Now to
go search the FCC website ...


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "D. Stussy"
writes:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

I found this comment on eham.net:
"I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I
had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away
with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm.
It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from
gaining acess to our bands. "

The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof
of
code
speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm.

Although true, the fact of a waiver is in the FCC's database (there's a
field
for it).

True - but you have to dig up the database and know what to look for. The
license itself doesn't show waiver status, IIRC.

As an excuse not to upgrade to extra, it's probably one of the
lamest ideas around.

Agreed!

Upon upgrade, one will still have the "prior class held" field
that will say advanced, so with the combination of these two data fields,
we
will know that a person once held an advanced class license WITHOUT the
medical
waiver and thus officially passed the 13wpm code element.

Not in all cases. Look me up in the data base - no entry for "former
license
class", even though I was Advanced from 1968 to 1970 (old 2 year waiting
period)


[Whether or not
the
person actually took the test or just paid for his license will generally
never
be known!]

"just paid for his license"?

To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who
failed
to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit
for
the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only
for
a
3.5 month window...

Maybe. But I think current Element 4 is no harder than old Element 4B.

What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30
session
I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to
general
no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect....

I'm not surprised. Many hams I know do not follow the rules changes
anywhere
near as closely as some of us do. Look at restructuring - out of over
678,000
hams, FCC got 2200 or so comments.

Some folks are just finding out what the changes mean. And with 10 year
renewals, folks who don't move around have very little interaction with
FCC
license procedures. The facts are often twisted in the retelling, too.
Look at
the misunderstanding about Element 1 and Technicians....

Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who
refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need
to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam?

There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a
proof
of
code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per.

When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April
19,
2000 extras).

But you need more info that just the fact that the person holds a certain
license class.


I know it's a free country, and
there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra
privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going
to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe.

If somebody wants to know my code skills and technical knowledge, I
don't
point
to a license test I took in 1970. Instead, I just show 'em.

Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING
high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests.

We do! 13 wpm isn't high speed, tho.

All the
Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam
requirements years ago.

Not even that. Medical waivers, etc.

...


Fun fact:

From May 14 2000 to July 31, 2003, the number of Advanceds dropped from
99,782 to 83,141. That includes upgrades to Extra and dropouts. Only a 17%
decline in over three years.

73 de Jim, N2EY


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

What a dumb thread -- hey it is their license -- they can upgrade, keep it
the same, let it expire, whatever.

I know a lot of advanced licensees that are perfectly happy where they are
and don't need to give any dumb rationale for their decisions.

Also know lots of Hams who are extra class and keep the old 2X2 advanced
call because they like it or have gotten very used to it.

--
73 From The Signal In The Noise
Caveat Lector Ya All
------------------------------------------------------