"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
(N2EY) wrote


It is a fact of human nature that most people value a thing more if it
took some investment of themselves to acquire.


Jim, you really need to retire this old mantra.


Now, now Hans... Surely you know the value in charging your clients. If you
do not, they will not attach nearly as much importance to the therapy they
recieve. That's a fact of life.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
(N2EY) wrote


It is a fact of human nature that most people value a thing more if it
took some investment of themselves to acquire.


Jim, you really need to retire this old mantra.

'It is a fact of human nature' that real people don't value a thing
based on it's 'investment' or 'cost', but rather based on the
usefulness, utility, comfort, satisfaction, or enjoyment that comes
from having it.

EXACTLY.

Everybody I know direly and sincerely want to win the lottery, and
don't mind one bit knowing that the ticket only costs them $1... and
I doubt seriously everybody who has been plunged into millionaire
status stays up at night worrying about the fact that they didn't
work for the money.

I believe the "you enjoy more if you work for it" line is just a
way of trying to get people to do something they rather had
not do.



--

Get in touch with your soul: www.glennbeck.com
OR, if you're a liberal, maybe you can FIND one


--

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
(N2EY) wrote


It is a fact of human nature that most people value a thing more if it
took some investment of themselves to acquire.


Jim, you really need to retire this old mantra.

'It is a fact of human nature' that real people don't value a thing
based on it's 'investment' or 'cost', but rather based on the
usefulness, utility, comfort, satisfaction, or enjoyment that comes
from having it.


Why does it have to be your way or no way, Hans? I think Jim's right to a
certain degree, and I think your right to a certain degree--it all depends
upon what is being valued and who is doing the evaluating.


My amateur license cost me virtually nothing in terms of 'investment
of myself', and the curbs and gutters the city just installed at one
of my places cost me an $8,200 assessment. I value my amateur license
a LOT more than I value the city's new street curbing!

The things that I value the very most quite honestly are literal gifts
which I have recieved without an ounce of 'investment' or 'cost' ---
the love of my wife, the smiles of my grandkids, the whisper of the
wind at sunset on Lake Vermilion, the conversation with an old friend,
or my healthy heart. I value all of these more than my homes, my RV,
my boat, or the QSL collection in the closet.

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB

The only one of those, above, that is a literal gift is the wind at sunset
on Lake Vermilion. The rest cost you plenty.

Kim W5TIT

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
(N2EY) wrote


It is a fact of human nature that most people value a thing more if it
took some investment of themselves to acquire.


Jim, you really need to retire this old mantra.

'It is a fact of human nature' that real people don't value a thing
based on it's 'investment' or 'cost', but rather based on the
usefulness, utility, comfort, satisfaction, or enjoyment that comes
from having it.

My amateur license cost me virtually nothing in terms of 'investment
of myself', and the curbs and gutters the city just installed at one
of my places cost me an $8,200 assessment. I value my amateur license
a LOT more than I value the city's new street curbing!

You invested your time, interest, and self in the amateur license. You
merely put money into the curbs and gutters. In the minds of many people,
the investment in your amateur license was far greater that your
investment
in curbs and gutters.


The things that I value the very most quite honestly are literal gifts
which I have recieved without an ounce of 'investment' or 'cost' ---
the love of my wife, the smiles of my grandkids, the whisper of the
wind at sunset on Lake Vermilion, the conversation with an old friend,
or my healthy heart. I value all of these more than my homes, my RV,
my boat, or the QSL collection in the closet.


The love of your wife and all these things are not free and are not gifts.
A loving relationship requires a large and continuous investment of self
(not money) to endure and to be worth while. Each of the other items also
requires some type of investment from you that doesn't necessary involve
money.

Investment is not exclusively a monetary term.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Absolutely. Were they as free as Hans seems to think they are, I really
wonder how valuable they would be.

Kim W5TIT

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"Brian" wrote in message
. com...

Furthermore, if the US government wants to give all prospective
amateurs 3 hots and a cot, and a paycheck, for the duration it takes
to learn the code, I'd gladly enroll in the CG Morse Code school.

There's one problem ... there IS no CG Morse Code school any
more ...

Sad but true.

the services are NOT teaching their radiomen Morse any
more.

Even if they were - would it make any difference to your opinion of the need
for code testing in the amateur radio service?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Dick Carroll wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:


I thought I'd forward the thoughtful comments below from
e-ham.net ... they say a LOT. (name/callsign omitted to
at least partially protect the innocent ...)



Why? We can always go searching through eham

Carl - wk3c

*********
For the last 25 years I have been in the US Coast Guard serving



BIG SNIPPAGE to make room for the internet cracker/hacker/spammers
to operate


Anyway . my two cents worth.
************
END QUOTE FROM E-HAM.NET




There are so many holes, inaccuracies and downright lies in that
piece that it deserves no credibility whatever.

Some of it makes some sense. an older ham I know got his license
back when he was in an army signal core training course, which included
CW. The people in his group were granted two day passes to visit the
FCC field office to take ham tests. All passed the code test, but only
my friend passed the written. The way he tells it, few even bothered to
fill in any of that test. This was in the early fifties during Korea, and
the highest they had then was the general license.

So it may have been that the people in the eham story were "required"
to take ham tests to get weekend passes or other such prize.





-------------------------

...even though the UK has dropped mandatory Morse testing, they are
still testing for it and retain 4 classes of licenses and they have
different call signs for each class so you can tell which station has
a CW license:

Class A has 12 wpm test and grants calls with M0 prefix

Class B licensees pass the same written test as Class A, but not CW,
and they now get full HF privileges. Their calls are M1 prefixes

Intermediate A (like Novice) has 5 wpm test and grants frequencies
above 144 MHz. They get calls with a prefix 2+Letter+0 (any letter
is possible)

Intermediate B has same written test as Intermediate A and no Morse.
They get call with a prefix 2+Letter+1.

Apparently many are still trying to get a call sign indicating they
have CW skills. (a rather low form of incentive licensing, but still
incentive licensing).

But what does the UK's "FCC" get out of it?

"Dee D. Flint" wrote


You invested your time, interest, and self in the amateur license.


Sorry, but the 'investment' was trivial. Long before I thought about
getting an amateur license I already knew Morse code and electronics.
A couple hours brushing up on the common-sense rules was all the
'self' I put into it.

I value my amateur privileges very highly, but the 'cost of entry' was
almost non-existent.

73, Hans, K0HB

"Kim W5TIT" wrote


Why does it have to be your way or no way, Hans?


Did I say "my way or no way"?????

Jim is free to have a different opinion, and I am free to suggest his
opinion is inconsistent with reality.


My amateur license cost me virtually nothing in terms of 'investment
of myself', and the curbs and gutters the city just installed at one
of my places cost me an $8,200 assessment. I value my amateur license
a LOT more than I value the city's new street curbing!

The things that I value the very most quite honestly are literal gifts
which I have recieved without an ounce of 'investment' or 'cost' ---
the love of my wife, the smiles of my grandkids, the whisper of the
wind at sunset on Lake Vermilion, the conversation with an old friend,
or my healthy heart. I value all of these more than my homes, my RV,
my boat, or the QSL collection in the closet.

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB

The only one of those, above, that is a literal gift is the wind at sunset
on Lake Vermilion. The rest cost you plenty.

You're mistaken. They are absolute unconditional gifts, and I
treasure them all the more for the fact that no amount of effort of
mine could have 'earned' them.

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
"Reality doesn't care what you believe." -- K0HB

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...

Furthermore, if the US government wants to give all prospective
amateurs 3 hots and a cot, and a paycheck, for the duration it takes
to learn the code, I'd gladly enroll in the CG Morse Code school.

There's one problem ...

It would be problematic only if the CG were still trying to use the
code.

And this is Ham Radio. Perhaps the ARRL could put up a shelter for
the codeless (similar to shelters for the homeless).

Three hots and a cot, and hours and hours of code practice and speed
runs.

And no requirement to shave daily.

"Kim W5TIT" wrote


Were they as free as Hans seems to think they are, I really
wonder how valuable they would be.


I will try to end your wondering. First, I don't "seem to think"; for
my value system I "know". All of the things I mentioned are among the
things I value the very most in life. They come to me as free
unconditional gifts which no amount of 'investment' would earn. In
other words, their value is completely independent of their cost.

Without putting words in anyones mouth, it appears from the posts of
you, Jim and Dee, that your value system is based on 'investment gives
beneficial results'. In my value system, the 'results' are valued
solely on merit without regard to how I acquired them.

As a kind of crude example, the value of two $10.00 bills, one which I
found on the street and the other which I performed hard labor to earn
are exactly equal. What I 'invested' in either one is absolutely
immaterial when calculating their value --- the corner grocer will
take either one and give me precisely the same change when I purchase
a jar of olives.

Taking it back to the context of this thread, my amateur license or my
drivers license or my fishing license have value to me based on the
beneficial things I can do with them. The value is not related in any
fashion to the 'cost' or 'effort' that it took to obtain the license.

73, de Hans, K0HB
--

"I came to see your beautiful new baby, not to
listen to a description of your labor pains."
-- K0HB