Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
t...

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


And I think the three classes of license are reasonable and appropriate.
Tech becomes the "entry" license, general is "mid-grade," and extra is
"top." I don't see anything wrong with that ...

What do you think would be a good division knowledge wise between the
classes? The tech and general are not too bad now, knowledge to
privileges. I lean a bit toward having the Extra require a bit more
knowledge, or perhaps experience. I know a few no-experience Extra's and
it just seems (to me) that some "time in grade" might make the license
more meaningful.

- Mike KB3EIA -



Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The extra used
to mean something. Now it means squat.

To my logic, the top level should be exactly that - the top level. The
expert in the field. This should entail more than the test requirements.
The Extra should be able to be depended on to give intelligent and
accurate answers to normal situations that crop up:

"Whoa there fella, you're in the CW portion of the band operating
voice. Here let me show you where the band edge is."

"Ahh, the reason you can't work Europe is you have your dipole oriented
the wrong way."

"Here, let me help."

The general class op can of course be inexperienced Sometimes they can
do things in an incorrect or inefficient manner. But that's okay as long
as they eventually get it right. But if the highest class doesn't really
mean anything, perhaps there should only two classes

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was going
to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

I'm still trying to decide what to do. I do a fair bit of contesting,
and KB3EIA is quite a mouthfull at those times. It's not too bad CW wise
(tho I haven't done CW contesting - maybe if I ever get good enough)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dan/W4NTI wrote:


Why? Maybe a little time in grade would mean we don't hear a new extra ask
" how long is a half wave dipole on forty?"

It's a quarter wave dipole Dan! You'd think we'd have that figured out
by now! Ducking now 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:

In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:


I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system
in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?

That of course would be a simple and elegant solution. No more arguing
about anything as far as classes go.

That would certainly cure the falloff in people getting Tech licenses
at the moment. A person would have to be foolish to not take the Tech
class license in order to get General class access after restructuring
as in your example, or full Extra access as in my one class idea.



- Mike KB3EIA -

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in
:


Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The
extra used to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before the
20wpm code was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


The real observation here is to note a complaint about extra class hams
not knowing
what the length of a 1/2 wave dipole was on a given frequency; has
nothing to do
with sending and recieving morse code skill.

Kinda showed your colors there.

Clint




It was a dead giveaway. Anyone who thinks that 20wpm code operating skill
means you know all about dipoles has a serious problem that no amount of
discussion will ever change.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

Alun Palmer wrote:

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in
:


Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The
extra used to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before the
20wpm code was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


The real observation here is to note a complaint about extra class hams
not knowing
what the length of a 1/2 wave dipole was on a given frequency; has
nothing to do
with sending and recieving morse code skill.

Kinda showed your colors there.

Clint





It was a dead giveaway. Anyone who thinks that 20wpm code operating skill
means you know all about dipoles has a serious problem that no amount of
discussion will ever change.

The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.

That an extra might have no idea about the length of a half wave dipole
at 40 meters - or more importantly, precisely no idea on how to
calculate it - indicates a more serious problem to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going
to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

I'm still trying to decide what to do. I do a fair bit of contesting,
and KB3EIA is quite a mouthfull at those times. It's not too bad CW wise
(tho I haven't done CW contesting - maybe if I ever get good enough)

- Mike KB3EIA -


The way to get good at it is to jump in and do it anyway. The way to start
is to listen to one station over and over until you finally pick out the
information and then to through your call sign in. Also never hesitate to
send "PS QRS" when necessary. You can even specify the speed with "PS QRS
10" or whatever you are comfortable with. Most will slow down.

I'm not particularly good at it myself but am running about 50% CW contacts
on the ongoing California QSO party.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going
to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

I'm still trying to decide what to do. I do a fair bit of contesting,
and KB3EIA is quite a mouthfull at those times. It's not too bad CW wise
(tho I haven't done CW contesting - maybe if I ever get good enough)

- Mike KB3EIA -


The way to get good at it is to jump in and do it anyway. The way to
start
is to listen to one station over and over until you finally pick out the
information and then to through your call sign in. Also never hesitate to
send "PS QRS" when necessary. You can even specify the speed with "PS QRS
10" or whatever you are comfortable with. Most will slow down.

I'm not particularly good at it myself but am running about 50% CW
contacts
on the ongoing California QSO party.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


"...then to throw your call sign..."

Hate it when I mistype something.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.


They may or may not; if the FCC decides that no "no further change in the
license structure is required at this time" then of course that will be the
final
word on *that* matter, and we'll accept it and go on since they are the
ones that have the final say. I just couldn't help but notice how certain
ones
in here I think have such an overpowering agenda regarding the CW
part of the testing that it tends to take them over and govern, or at least
seriously influence, everything they have to remark about in ham radio.

I'm a general class operator; I realize by definition that means I had to
show knowledge in certain areas to prove I deserved recieving the next
higher license class than tech-plus; however, I did not demonstrate enough
skill and knowledge to warrant recieving the advanced class license.
Therefore,
advanced class operators *should* know more than I do, or at least as much.

That brings us to the sad truth that if an *extra* class license operator
doesn't
know how to calculate the length of a walf wave dipole on 40m (or whatever
frequency), that is a serious issue. I say that because calculating the
length of
an antenna, especially a halfwave dipole of ALL things, is and always WILL
be so basic to ham radio that it should be on page one of chapter one of
every study guide ever printed. Such matters is why I put such a strong
emphasis on putting more priority on written testing than that of the skills
of
translating a CW transmission.

Sad thing is, most the time I get on 75 meters and begin discussing ham
radio
tech stuff, there is usually one heckler that harangues you about it and
makes
light of the fact that you were talking about ham radio stuff and not what
the
weather was like on a day 58 years ago while an old man sat on a porch
and peeled potatoes in the hot summer sun... true story. I actually was on
the
airwaves a few weeks ago discussing the pros and cons how how to set up
a new 75 meter inverted V I was going to make at home... and as soon as
I finished the conversation with the other ham and he went off the air, a
couple
of hams got in there and began talking to one another BASHING me for doing
so... can you imagine???

Clint

I'm a general class operator; I realize by definition that means I had to
show knowledge in certain areas to prove I deserved recieving the next

You didnt prove knowledge, all you proved was that you did a GOOD JOB of
Memorizing some Q@As.

(I would find it
hard to believe that "old Techs" who had credit for both 5 wpm and
the full General written wouldn't have upgraded to AT LEAST
General ..

I know a bunch that have no desire or interest in passing there Silly little
Test.