Exactly. My condolensces as well.

Clint
KB5ZHT



"Ya just cain't fix stupid"

We pity that, Dan, many of us were optimistic that you could be
repaired...

Sorry to hear of it.

LHA

"No-coder" wrote in message
...


I had hoped that my post would generate a level headed debate on this
analogy.
Apparently, you are incapable of that, and can only resort to ad hominem
attacks.


I TOLD you, N-C, that is all they CAN do.

Clint
KB5ZHT

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...


Just answer me this then....why would we bother with A N O T H E R code
vs
no-code debate? In the last 10 years there has been thousands of them
here.

and you guys lose every one of them.

Clint
KB5ZHT

"No-coder" wrote in message
...
Even though the testing for code was reduced to the basic 5 WPM over three
years ago, it's obvious that the debate still rages on.

The insistance that a person know Morse Code at a resonable speed in order
to
be "real ham" is similar to religious fanatics, particualrly Christian
fundamentalists, who think that a person has to believe in god in order to
be a
good and moral person. They cannot prove that their god even exists. So
with
the PCTA, they cannot prove that code is useful in light of communications
advancements that have been made over the past several decades.

Just as certain fundamentalists would like to turn the country into a
Judeo-Christian theocracy, so would certain hams go back to an outdated
communications scheme, simply because they think that Morse code is their
"god."

To expect prospective hams to believe in the fairy tale of morse code is
the
the same as expecting people to believe in the fairy tales of the holy
bible.


This nonsense insults both the no-coder and pro-coders.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:27:37 +0000, No-coder wrote:

Even though the testing for code was reduced to the basic 5 WPM over
three years ago, it's obvious that the debate still rages on.

The insistance that a person know Morse Code at a resonable speed in
order to be "real ham" is similar to religious fanatics, particualrly
Christian fundamentalists, who think that a person has to believe in god
in order to be a good and moral person. They cannot prove that their god
even exists. So with the PCTA, they cannot prove that code is useful in
light of communications advancements that have been made over the past
several decades.

Just as certain fundamentalists would like to turn the country into a
Judeo-Christian theocracy, so would certain hams go back to an outdated
communications scheme, simply because they think that Morse code is
their "god."

To expect prospective hams to believe in the fairy tale of morse code is
the the same as expecting people to believe in the fairy tales of the
holy bible.

It'll be very difficult to address your "analogy" with any degree of
fairness or objectivity, as you have, in your comments, already made
yourself out to be an antagonist; in more than just one area.

Suffice it to say, then that, while there are legitimate arguments from
both camps, yours is not one of them. What this argument represents is, in
fact, one of the reasons people with real "code problems" now find it
impossible to move out of the arena of the "glorified CBers", in the minds
of most old timers.

There's nothing "antiquated" about CW. It doesn't require a computer to
send or receive it. It can be received under the most horrible of
communications conditions. There's nothing "religious" about those
statements. Simple statements of fact. Arguments against them come from
those uneducated in the history of radio; Those who have never constructed
an vacuum-tube oscillator out of junk-box components. People who think
"BFO" is a reference to a group of rappers.

Nevertheless, I'm one of those individuals who, thanks to the nonsense
ideas represented by the posting I am responding to, have a very
difficult, if not impossible task ahead of themselves where license
upgrading is concerned.

I suffer from Tinnitus, which makes listening to CW for any length of time
impossible. The tones, in my case, cause migraine headaches, which are
accompained all manner of unpleasent side-effects. As it is, I have to use
several notch filters to even listen to most HF traffic, because of all
the "digital" nonsense on the air these days. At one time I could send CW
at speeds close to 20WPM, according to those who listened beneath the
'phones. Unfortunately, that skill, without the ability to "listen" is
next to useless.

When I was a kid, there were special licenses (Conditional Class) and
medical exemptions for people who suffer with real problems, but now,
thanks to the ilk who have adopted the attitude that every desire should
be sataified without exerting even the least amount of effort, and abused
those special considerations, they have been done away with; no
exceptions. The baby got tossed out with the bathwater. Now, I get to try
and learn CW all over again, using a bloody blinking light, of all things,
which will be a skill even more usless than my present sending skill.

So, the whole point of this response is to say "Thank-you" to you, Mr.
No-coder, and all your friends who, with all your "analogies" and other
hairbrained ideas, arguments, and excuse-making, have made the license
upgrade process for folks like me, all that more difficult.

CW must remain as a testable qualifier, There's no other way to prevent
ham radio from becoming a kilowatt-wasteland of room-tempreture IQs,
trying to out-shout each other with bogus Southern accents and reverb.

So all you anti-code folks out there, thanks; thanks a lot; thanks for
nothing!

(No-coder) wrote in message ...

Even though the testing for code was reduced to the basic 5 WPM over three
years ago, it's obvious that the debate still rages on.

Only by those who insist on doing it for doing it's sake...IE:,
Lennie

The insistance that a person know Morse Code at a resonable speed in order to
be "real ham" is similar to religious fanatics, particualrly Christian
fundamentalists, who think that a person has to believe in god in order to be a
good and moral person. They cannot prove that their god even exists. So with
the PCTA, they cannot prove that code is useful in light of communications
advancements that have been made over the past several decades.

While one cannot prove of disprove the existence of any specific
deity, the usefulness of Morse Code has been proven for over 80 years
and is re-proven every moment of every day.

In this case the one's trying to prove a negative are those who
insist that Morse Code skills is a hold back to the Amateur Radio
service as a whole.

In particular read the writings of Lennie Anderson, a person who
never spent a minute as a licensed Amateur, and John Kaput-ski,
KC2HMZ, a scanner buff who makes assinine assertions about the
"collateral damage" that the Morse Code issue allegedly causes, but
who runs away at the first testing of his resolve of his convictions.

Is Morse Code skill and implementation the know-all and end-all
of Amateur Radio...?!?! Certainly not. If it was, none of the medium
in which this exchange is taking place would exist.

Just as certain fundamentalists would like to turn the country into a
Judeo-Christian theocracy, so would certain hams go back to an outdated
communications scheme, simply because they think that Morse code is their
"god."

People who keep making these assertions that some subset of the
Amateur radio condsiders Morse Code aas a "god" are idiots. Period.

I've known dyed-in-the-wool CW ops and have yet to meet anyone
who even remotely fits this description. I dare anyone to provide
even one thread of evidence to the contrary.

To expect prospective hams to believe in the fairy tale of morse code is the
the same as expecting people to believe in the fairy tales of the holy bible.

To expect that you exercised even a modicum of thought before
bombing USENET with this bit of emotionally charged, baseless
silliness is even more lame than my expectations of being molested by
Brittney Spears in the next 24 hours.

Steve, K4YZ

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message ...

"No-coder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


If you have no other refutation than to call it "lamebrained" then you
have no
argument at all. You show that you are incapable of engaging in any form
of
intelligent debate on the matter.

The PCTA's never have been able to. They quickly deplete thier very shallow
pool of "debate points", which are easily refuted and defeated such as the
old & dead "it's basic to all radio communication" (that one still makes me
laugh)...

It make's you laugh because you are ignorant of the facts, or you
refuse to accept them. The ignorant laugh at everything because they
know or understand nothing.

Morse Coded communications are occuring at this very moment.
While you try to "prove" your point, "Clint", by making these childish
assertions that Morse Code is NOT a "basic" form of communication,
Amateurs all over the world are at this very moment proving you wrong.

That you chose to refuse to accept it is obvious AND foolish, but
it's a freedom you are allowed under our chosen form of government.

and quickly they MUST resort to name calling such as "lamebrained" because
they have NO other cards in their hand.

Actually I have well over 1000 cards in hand, Clint...from every
continent, Antarctica, ships at sea, etc etc etc. Over 80% of them
confirming contacts in Morse Code.

More than half of those represent contacts with people in other
countries that might not have otherwise happened if not for the
commonality of Amateur Radio and Morse Code.

No accents...No ranting or chanting masses...Just two people
exchanging greetings.

They have nothing to lean on.

Except truth and facts, Clint. Sorry you chose to not agree, but
you are welcome to tune the bottom end of the HF bands at your leisure
and hear for yourself. I realise you won't understand any of it, but
you can go ahead and spend the money on hardware and software to do
for you what you COULD do for yourself for no money and no hardware to
demend on.

All they
do is either put you on thier killfile list (read: I can't factually support
my stand
so therefore i'm going to just ignore you! so there! *nyah!*) or they start
name calling. "lamebrain" is one of the new ones; generally the pro code
dinosaurs start using "lazy", "stupid" and "moron" interspersed with various
vulgarities.

Nope. I'd put "ignorant of the facts" in front of all of that.

Clint
Easily whipping the PCTA's

Not today.

Not on your best day.

You're like the new kid in the gym...Got a lot of those Walter
Mitty dreams about being another Ali or Foreman, but looking more like
Wally Cox or Barney Fife.

You know just enough to SOUND like you are "knowledgeable" to the
uniformed or easily impressed. Just like propagandists, you mix in
just enough "truth" to try and substantiate your "argument", yet
cannot overcome the facts.

Is continued Morse Code testing necessary for Amateur licensure?
Not administratively. However it is and will continue to be a viable
and useful communications medium for years to come. That you and
others choose to not take the time to learn it and just see for
yourselves is sad. That you and others continue to make assinine
assertions about it is childish and diminishes your credibility.

Steve, K4YZ

(No-coder) wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...


Just further proof of my favorite statement....

"Ya just cain't fix stupid"

Dan/W4NTI

I had hoped that my post would generate a level headed debate on this analogy.
Apparently, you are incapable of that, and can only resort to ad hominem
attacks.

You are not the first one to think that you could do this.

You demonstrate your OWN "incapab(ilities)", but I get the feeling
that always being second best comes second nature to you, so I will
leave you with your comfort zone in tact.

Steve, K4YZ

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message ...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...


Just answer me this then....why would we bother with A N O T H E R code
vs
no-code debate? In the last 10 years there has been thousands of them
here.

and you guys lose every one of them.

Clint, I get the feeling that there is some other inadequacy in
your life that you are making up for by making assinine assertions
that are easily refuted.

Your parentage, perhaps?

Steve, K4YZ

To expect prospective hams to believe in the fairy tale of morse code is
the
the same as expecting people to believe in the fairy tales of the holy
bible.

To expect that you exercised even a modicum of thought before
bombing USENET with this bit of emotionally charged, baseless
silliness is even more lame than my expectations of being molested by
Brittney Spears in the next 24 hours.

Steve, K4YZ


Hams molested by Brittney Spears in the next 24 hours ???? PSE PSE what's
the frequency ....and more over ...what a pile-up ....


73 Tom KI3R ...Belle Vernon PA