But those currently busting their butts, 50-60 hours a week, trying to even
hit the break-even point, who cannot get an even freakin' break, do not have
any form of help.


--
Ryan KC8PMX

Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to use The Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.


But those that are unwilling to work when they are able to,
shouldn't expect the handout (IMHO).

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

That may have been true many years ago, but the Klan Klowns are pretty much
against anything that does not fit into the Aryan nations views.....


--
Ryan KC8PMX

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.


Dwight:

I consider the KKK to be about racism, not slavery. It was originally
started as a response to the heavy-handed political disenfranchisement
of the former Confederate states by Northern "Carpetbaggers" who
essentially swept into the South and took over in the aftermath of the
Civil War.

"N2EY" wrote:

Point is, the attitudes that newer is always better and that all
change is good have led to all sorts of problems.


Agreed.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
news
"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

(snip) I am telling you that my experience has been
that people who are customarily born in this country
feel that the jobs we are speaking of are beneath them.
(snip) But, how dare you dismiss the experiences I have
seen.


Again, I'm not dismissing your experiences. Instead, I'm questioning the
conclusions you've made about those experiences. You say, based on your
experiences with other people, nobody in this country other than
immigrants
is willing to do those jobs? How many of those non-immigrant people did
you
ask if they would take those jobs if the wages were better?


Have you ever heard the phrase, "I wouldn't do that no matter how much they
paid me?" I haven't had to ask, Dwight. I am speaking of people that I
have personally been involved with either at casual get-togethers, work,
civic organizational meetings, or friends' socials.


I suspect just
about all of them would at least consider, and many would gladly take,
those
jobs under different wage conditions. If I'm right, your conclusions are
flat wrong - non-immigrants are willing to do those jobs.


I would not make such adamant comments based on supposition alone, Dwight.
And, I've tried to relay to you that I am referencing true/real-life
experiences--not just making casual observation.


And, if you are
wrong, to continue to perpetrate a myth that non-immigrants are either too
lazy or too uppish to do that work is simply insulting.


Welp, sorry. Then be insulted.


And, how dare you again, Dwight. (snip) How dare you
imply that I "don't care" about bad policies in this country.
Have I once said I don't care? (snip)

Lay off the false outrage, Kim. Nobody said you didn't care. I said "few
seem to care," not "Kim doesn't care." If you apply those words to
yourself,
you do so in your own mind. If others want to apply those words to you,
they'll do so after reading what you've said.


Then, you lay off the analogy of my being wrong and not caring, Dwight.
You'd be as affected if I responded to a post by you saying that, "seems
like everyone is on the _______ bandwagon." You would--and rightly so--make
the connection that I was including you as one of those "everyones." Also,
it is not false outrage--once again you dismiss someone else's attitude.


(snip) and I've just told you I am basing that on experience. Go
to the Unemployment lines. I haven't--but I *BET* the majority
of people in those lines are not looking for work on farms, at
Wal-Mart, with municipalities, landscape companies, construction
firms, asbestos abatement firms, chemical and biological hazard
waste firms, and our ever-famous convenience stores such as
7-Eleven--all of which need people constantly.

Your experiences are clearly somewhat limited.


You know what, Dwight? You're right. And, you know what else? I have
*told* you that I don't know how many times now. I have clearly, clearly
told you from whence I am basing my opinons. DUH!!!!!!!!!! And, you what
else? SO ARE YOURS.


Walmart doesn't hire
through state or outside employment agencies. Potential employees apply at
the individual stores and there are rarely shortages of applicants.


The phucking point is, Dwight, that people of whom you and I are
speaking--those that say they cannot find work, are not "looking" (i.e.,
going to take, consider, or toy with) the idea of employment at places like
Wal-Mart, etc.


Municipalities tend to pay fairly well (with good benefits), hence rarely
have a shortage of applicants (skilled applicants is another matter).


They have high turn-around, Dwight. Why? Because the work the ask folks to
do is generally considered to be far more work than many are willing to
do--even including police and fire work. And, even with the high
turnaround--again--the people of generally US-born heritage do not look for
or even consider work in those fields.


Landscape companies, to keep costs down, are perhaps the largest employers
of illegal immigrants. Construction companies only have problems finding
skilled applicants (laborers are plentiful). The same with most other
companies seeking skilled labor. Convenience store jobs are among the
lowest
paying, and most dangerous, in the country. In other words, none of these
tend to prove your point.


You are talking in circles, and ignoring good points I might add. My point
is this: REGARDLESS of the reasons you list above, the FACT still remains
that people who are in a non-immigrant class and generally US-born who you
say are displaced by immigrants filling the jobs, will *not* generally look
for or do the jobs listed above--and more. Whether you wish to believe that
or not--whatever. I've heard it expressed, I've known people who feel that
way, I've listened to it being discussed in public venues, and I've watched
my own Congress debate the problems associated with it.


(snip) All one need do is look around them to see where our
youth find important and meaningful employment: McDonald's
and other fast food joints, light dining restaurants, and that's
about it. (snip)

You've got to be kidding, Kim. You consider employment at fast food
joints, some of the lowest paying jobs in this country, to be "important
and
meaningful employment?"


For a phucking youth?????!!!!! Yes, I do, Dwight. The jobs filled at
places like that build the background it takes to be a half-way decent
employee as a young and professional adult.


(snip) Why did I break-out to light dining restaurants? Because
I don't see teen-agers in the "finer" dining restaraunts - and my
husband and I love to eat out so we have some experience.
Know why *I* think they (teen-agers) aren't there? Because
there, the customer service is higher scale, which demands more
personality, better etiquette, and of course--greater work ethic.

Or maybe the owners simply don't hire teenagers.


Give a dog a bone and he buries it.


Guess who we do see serving us in those restaurants?

Who, Kim? You've already said teenagers (immigrant and non-immigrant)
don't work in these restaurants. That leaves only adults. I suppose you're
now going to say immigrant adults have more personally, better etiquette,
and a greater work ethic, than non-immigrant adults in this country, which
is why immigrant adults, not non-immigrant adults, work in the restaurants
you go to.


Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. And, just for you and Jim I'll say
this: some.


My husband has been at his formerly family-owned business
for 27 years. His mom sold the company last year. For most
of those 27 years, until about 10 years ago, they had a great
crew of folks. Since then, the main focus of my husband's
every day work has been to get someone in there who wants
a job and will work. Know how many nieces nephews, and
his own kids and my son, he has had through those years?
Ten. Not one of them has ever, ever worked there. (snip)

Perhaps that says more about your husband than the nieces, nephews, and
kids. That's not intended as an insult. Instead, it's just to point out
that
few kids are willing to work for parents or immediate relatives - parents
and relatives tend to be more demanding and more judgmental than the
normal
employer.


Give a dog a bone and he buries it.

OK, then, Dwight. Explain why in those years not only have the
nieces/nephews and great-nieces/nephews not worked there--in a time of our
country that unemployment is at the high it is, he (my husband) is begging
for employees? And, it happens that he is *always* begging for employees.
And, guess who generally fills that need? Not the people you say are out
there willing to take the job.


If the factories are closing, then what jobs are the immigrants
moving in to take? (snip) I am still curious to know if factories
are closing, what jobs are available for anyone to take? (snip)

Didn't I pretty much answer that in the next paragraph of that message?
There are obviously more jobs in town than just factory jobs, Kim. The
elimination of those factory jobs simply adds to the competition for those
remaining jobs.


Welcome to the real world, Dwight.


Well, excuse me for the honesty--you'll call it having my
blinders on or not caring, maybe even because I am a
"liberal"--but, if one contract put this company out of
business, then perhaps the person should have gone on
to some form of vocational or higher level training in
business practices before they took such a jump. (snip)

It happened to be about a $450k per year contract, the loss of which his
company could not absorb.


My point still remains. And, I've also gotta say: give a dog a bone and he
buries it.


(snip) if we have no control over the employment
situation in this country--we don't whine about it. We
knuckle under, get the menial jobs, sell the big house,
get the little house, sell the SUV and get the Saturn,
and we begin the task of seeing what we can do--if
anything--to change the route of what we perceive as
being awful. (snip)

Kim, as voters and citizens, we're supposed to have control over the
employment situation in this country.

PAH!! Welcome to the real world, Dwight. And, "supposed to" and do is two
entirely different things. We still don't sit around and whine about it.
Like I said above--we do what we gotta do and then we *begin the task of
seeing what we can do--if anything--to change the route of what we perceive
as being awful.* Is there a part of that you did not understand?


We don't simply because too many
choose to "knuckle under" instead of demanding better. Of course, they
probably don't have that much of a choice as long as most people are
heartless enough to think the solution for those people is to sell
everything, take a menial job, and live in poverty.


I am one of those who have mostly knuckled under. I used to try to change
things. But, without change I've done pretty well. It's a sad commentary,
but I and many are too busy knuckling under to try to change a
thing--welcome to the reality of what's really going on.


Then, report the company to INS. REPORT THEM. If
the company is getting contracts based on their employment
of illegeal aliens, then I am sure the firms they are doing
services for will want to know this. For goodness sake,
REPORT their ass.

I've already filed complaints. Sadly, it just doesn't work that way,
Kim.
When it comes to businesses hiring illegal immigrants, government agencies
only take on a few, high profile, cases each year (such as Walmart
recently). Because of that, you could complain until you're blue in the
face
and absolutely nothing will come of it. I truly wish it were different,
but
that's simply the way it is (which is exactly why so many companies are
now
willing to hire illegal immigrants).

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/



Then figure out a way to be satisfied. Because you are absolutely right.
The one thing you and I differ on is that I do *not* believe the
immigrant/migrant/transient population in this country are displacing as
many as you believe. I believe they are doing jobs that--no matter how bad
it gets--"we" have been too spoiled to consider doing ourselves.

Kim W5TIT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article et,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

The flag of the confederacy is NOT the battle flag being displayed as the
flag of the Confederacy.

When the Tennessee Battle Flag is flown in the South, by real
Southerners,
it is meant as a sign of respect for the fallen and a symbol of STATES
RIGHTS.

Dan:

When you "real Southerners" fly your Tennessee Battle Flag or whatever
you call it, everyone who isn't a "real Southerner" views it as waving a
banner of racism under their noses. Whether it is right or not, and
whether
you like it or not, your flag is a problem for the rest of the country --
especially American Negroes (the proper term for black people in
America --
considering the fact that none of them was born in Africa or ever lived
in any African country long enough to gain citizenship there). The white
"real Southern" rednecks with the "Tennessee Battle Flag" on their pickup
trucks are living in the past, at the expense of modern race relations.

No one advocates seccession from the Union, or starting another war.

That's comforting.

But....we get real tired of Northerners and blacks trying to tear the
flag
down, especially since the reason they want to tear it down is they
believe
it is a racist symbol.

While I was in the military, I had the saying "perception is reality"
drummed
into me. The way we present ourselves to others forms their opinion of us
from the very start. In most cases, that's the only opinion they ever use
to
judge us from that point onward. I think it's time for you and your
fellow
"real Southerners" to face the fact that your flag needs to be taken off
your flagpoles and replaced with the real American flag -- the Stars and
Stripes. No one is questioning the fact that the South is part of the
United
States, and it's time for the "real Southerners" to stop fighting the
Civil War
and living in peace with the rest of their country.

If it IS a racist symbol to them. Then they have fallen for the big lie.

One man's lie is another man's truth. If I were you, I'd concentrate on
making sure no one mistook me for a real American. Being a "real
Southerner" only leaves the impression that you don't feel as though
you belong to the greater whole of our nation.

Govern yourself accordingly.

I do -- and I'm not the one flying any sort of state-specific "battle
flag."
I fly the flag of the UNITED States. One of the stars on the field of
that
flag belongs to Tennessee -- a beautiful state filled with free, united,
and
loyal Americans -- of all races, ethnic, and religious groups. They are
my fellow American citizens, and I expect them to view me as one of
theirs. I am living in the unified present-day reality of America -- not
in
the divided, suspicious, and hateful past. I invite you, my fellow
American,
to do likewise.

73 de Larry, K3LT

There it is Larry, perception. The assholes that stole the symbol of
Southern Independence from the South, its flag. Have won....eh? Not
hardly my good man.

No, we WILL NOT remove the stars and bars from our flagpoles. And to show
how ignorant you are, and that you have fallen for Northern propaganda....AT
NO PLACE DOES THE CONFEDERATE FLY IN PLACE OF THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

If the Confederate flag is flown it is ALWAYS flown either away from the US
Flag, or BELOW the US FLAG. As it shoud be.

Again...the Confederate flag IS NOT A RACIST SYMBOL. If it is perceived as
such....it is YOUR PROBLEM, not ours.

Dan/W4NTI

Oh, one more thing Larry. I fly the US Flag on my front porch . High and
mighty. And I have the Confederate Battle Flag here in my shack, in the
backyard. And when I get the tower up I will fly it off the tower.

Dan/W4NTI

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article et,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

The flag of the confederacy is NOT the battle flag being displayed as the
flag of the Confederacy.

When the Tennessee Battle Flag is flown in the South, by real
Southerners,
it is meant as a sign of respect for the fallen and a symbol of STATES
RIGHTS.

Dan:

When you "real Southerners" fly your Tennessee Battle Flag or whatever
you call it, everyone who isn't a "real Southerner" views it as waving a
banner of racism under their noses. Whether it is right or not, and
whether
you like it or not, your flag is a problem for the rest of the country --
especially American Negroes (the proper term for black people in
America --
considering the fact that none of them was born in Africa or ever lived
in any African country long enough to gain citizenship there). The white
"real Southern" rednecks with the "Tennessee Battle Flag" on their pickup
trucks are living in the past, at the expense of modern race relations.

No one advocates seccession from the Union, or starting another war.

That's comforting.

But....we get real tired of Northerners and blacks trying to tear the
flag
down, especially since the reason they want to tear it down is they
believe
it is a racist symbol.

While I was in the military, I had the saying "perception is reality"
drummed
into me. The way we present ourselves to others forms their opinion of us
from the very start. In most cases, that's the only opinion they ever use
to
judge us from that point onward. I think it's time for you and your
fellow
"real Southerners" to face the fact that your flag needs to be taken off
your flagpoles and replaced with the real American flag -- the Stars and
Stripes. No one is questioning the fact that the South is part of the
United
States, and it's time for the "real Southerners" to stop fighting the
Civil War
and living in peace with the rest of their country.

If it IS a racist symbol to them. Then they have fallen for the big lie.

One man's lie is another man's truth. If I were you, I'd concentrate on
making sure no one mistook me for a real American. Being a "real
Southerner" only leaves the impression that you don't feel as though
you belong to the greater whole of our nation.

Govern yourself accordingly.

I do -- and I'm not the one flying any sort of state-specific "battle
flag."
I fly the flag of the UNITED States. One of the stars on the field of
that
flag belongs to Tennessee -- a beautiful state filled with free, united,
and
loyal Americans -- of all races, ethnic, and religious groups. They are
my fellow American citizens, and I expect them to view me as one of
theirs. I am living in the unified present-day reality of America -- not
in
the divided, suspicious, and hateful past. I invite you, my fellow
American,
to do likewise.

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:
"Dwight Stewart" wrote:
(snip) I suppose you're now going to say immigrant
adults have more personally, better etiquette, and a
greater work ethic, than non-immigrant adults in this
country, which is why immigrant adults, not non-immigrant
adults, work in the restaurants you go to.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. And, just for you and
Jim I'll say this: some.


Your bigotry towards American workers (non-immigrants) is noted. However,
we're straying off the subject with way too many personal anecdotes, so lets
get back to the core of this issue.

Again, I firmly believe the ONLY reason some people won't do some jobs is
because of the wages paid. There are people in this country (non-immigrants)
willing to walk into the containment chamber of a nuclear reactor if the pay
is good enough. There are people (non-immigrants) willing to walk 500 ft
high steel girders of a building construction site if the pay is good
enough. There are people (non-immigrants) willing to place their lives on
the line to protect you from crime if the pay is good enough. There are
people (non-immigrants) willing to lay their lives on the line to defend
this country if the pay is good enough. In other words, there are people
(non-immigrants) willing to do any job, no matter how bad or how dangerous,
if the pay is good enough. For you to now say otherwise, and instead insist
Americans just won't work because they're too lazy or too uppish (immigrants
workers are needed instead), is a slap in the face of every hard working
American.

If some of your friends and associates are different and won't work if the
pay is good (which I highly doubt), that says more about the people you hang
out with than it does about the American worker. The Americans I see all
around me are willing to work. However, the key issue for all of them is the
wages paid. It costs a lot of money to even be poor in this country today,
Kim. Average rent prices are approaching $700 per month. Average utility
prices are approaching $200 per month. Average car and insurance payments,
even for an older used car, are approaching $250 per month. Average food
prices, even for a young couple, are approaching $250 per month. That
doesn't include cloths, medical expenses, gas for the car to get to work,
car repairs, hair cuts, school costs for those who want to better their
lives, and so on. And that certainly doesn't include luxuries or children
(mentioned because some don't think the poor should even have children).

The average minimum wage worker is lucky to bring home $600 per month
after taxes. With that, even a two income family will have to give up some
of the basics of life (a car, a home, food, or something). Needless to say,
even common sense suggests few people want to work in those low paying jobs
and would rather hold out as long as possible for better paying jobs. You
seem to interpret that as they're simply too lazy or too uppish to work.

Bringing in immigrants to fill those jobs is not the answer. That still
leaves the people described above out of work and looking for jobs. Indeed,
filling those lower paying jobs with immigrants only increases the glut of
workers seeking slightly better paying jobs, driving wages down for those
jobs too. And the cycle repeats for the next higher paying jobs as workers
already in those slightly better paying jobs seek higher paying work to
escape the glut in workers seeking their jobs. The ripple effect of this
practice is undermining the entire American labor force. In the end, the
inevitable result of all this is a much lower standard of living for all
working class Americans. And those people are not going to be happy campers,
even less so as they hear some describe them as too lazy or too uppish to
work.

Increasing wages is the only answer. And if that drives some less
efficient companies out of business, well too bad. There are no guarantees
in this country (as Charles says) and, if the business is at all worthwhile,
plenty of other, hopefully better managed, companies will quickly spring up
to take their place.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

I'm talking of friendly chats about the topic.
I am speaking of racist comments and ways
of treating people.


No, from what I've seen, you're speaking of your own interpretation of
those comments and then judging others based on that criteria alone.


Isn't that reggae?


If you say so. I don't listen to that music.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Hans K0HB" wrote:

Dwight prefers 'reggie' because it sounds, you know,
less ...... black.


And Hans prefers to make sly comments about a spelling error instead of
discussing the topic.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Kim W5TIT" wrote:
"Dwight Stewart" wrote:
(snip) I suppose you're now going to say immigrant
adults have more personally, better etiquette, and a
greater work ethic, than non-immigrant adults in this
country, which is why immigrant adults, not non-immigrant
adults, work in the restaurants you go to.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. And, just for you and
Jim I'll say this: some.


Your bigotry towards American workers (non-immigrants) is noted.


Uh huh...OK Lar--- I mean Dwight.


However,
we're straying off the subject with way too many personal anecdotes, so
lets
get back to the core of this issue.

Again, I firmly believe the ONLY reason some people won't do some jobs is
because of the wages paid.


And, I believe your right, partly. I don't believe anything is that
concrete, Dwight. I am pretty sure there are lots of people who are like
you describe and I am pretty sure--certain in fact--that there are people
like I describe. Nevertheless, I certainly *don't* believe the immigrant
problem in this country is as bad as you believe.


There are people in this country (non-immigrants)
willing to walk into the containment chamber of a nuclear reactor if the
pay
is good enough. There are people (non-immigrants) willing to walk 500 ft
high steel girders of a building construction site if the pay is good
enough. There are people (non-immigrants) willing to place their lives on
the line to protect you from crime if the pay is good enough. There are
people (non-immigrants) willing to lay their lives on the line to defend
this country if the pay is good enough. In other words, there are people
(non-immigrants) willing to do any job, no matter how bad or how
dangerous,
if the pay is good enough. For you to now say otherwise, and instead
insist
Americans just won't work because they're too lazy or too uppish
(immigrants
workers are needed instead), is a slap in the face of every hard working
American.


Whutevah...


If some of your friends and associates are different and won't work if the
pay is good (which I highly doubt), that says more about the people you
hang
out with than it does about the American worker.


And, it's OK for you to call me a bigot because of my opinion, OK Larr---I
mean Dwight.


The Americans I see all
around me are willing to work. However, the key issue for all of them is
the
wages paid. It costs a lot of money to even be poor in this country today,
Kim.


Yes, it does, Dwight. And I am pretty sure I know more about that than you
do. Just 30 years ago I was a welfare mom with two kids, no car, a deadbeat
dad, was a High School Dropout, and lived in a town of less than 1K people.
My kids were raised on fried rice, rice casseroles that I came up with where
Cream of Mushroom Soup was a staple and meat was more a flavor--one piece
*maybe* two of chicken broke up and thrown into the recipe. Peanut butter
and jelly was often breakfast *and* lunch.

I watched all around me as people got "comfortable" with being bitter and
dismayed and beaten down about where they were. I watched them in my
rear-view mirror as I made decisions I sure enough didn't want to be making
about where I was going to live, what I was going to do for a living--all
the while telling these two kids "everything's OK." And, I watched all
around as people who'd become accustomed to being poor and sad were telling
me I was being a fool to ever think it was going to be any different. They
are probably still there.


Average rent prices are approaching $700 per month. Average utility
prices are approaching $200 per month. Average car and insurance payments,
even for an older used car, are approaching $250 per month. Average food
prices, even for a young couple, are approaching $250 per month. That
doesn't include cloths, medical expenses, gas for the car to get to work,
car repairs, hair cuts, school costs for those who want to better their
lives, and so on. And that certainly doesn't include luxuries or children
(mentioned because some don't think the poor should even have children).


And, I empathize with each and every one of the folks who start out young
today. It's hard--extremely hard. But, you know what? Housekeeping pays
high dollar these days...very high dollar. And, I am not talking about
getting a job with a nitwit hog of a person who has a company paying minimum
wage and getting people involved in the business. I am talking about jobs
like childcare, housekeeping, medical transcription and other computer jobs,
pooper scooper, dog walking, house sitting, all kinds of stuff people let go
right by them every day--because they are too busy being sad.

There's folks like that, Dwight. Yep, you're right. There are folks who
*will* do those jobs. But they are in the minority and how ironic. Because
it is more the minority immigrant population that does those jobs than a lot
of US citizens.


The average minimum wage worker is lucky to bring home $600 per month
after taxes. With that, even a two income family will have to give up some
of the basics of life (a car, a home, food, or something). Needless to
say,
even common sense suggests few people want to work in those low paying
jobs
and would rather hold out as long as possible for better paying jobs. You
seem to interpret that as they're simply too lazy or too uppish to work.


I know all about what the cost of living is, Dwight. And I know it from a
poor perspective and the perspective I am at now. Or, should I say the
perspective of believing nothing will ever change to making my own way to
where I am comfortable? And, if need be, I'll start over again. Hell no, I
wouldn't like it--I'd hate it--but I would do what I gotta do.


Bringing in immigrants to fill those jobs is not the answer. That still
leaves the people described above out of work and looking for jobs.
Indeed,
filling those lower paying jobs with immigrants only increases the glut of
workers seeking slightly better paying jobs, driving wages down for those
jobs too. And the cycle repeats for the next higher paying jobs as workers
already in those slightly better paying jobs seek higher paying work to
escape the glut in workers seeking their jobs. The ripple effect of this
practice is undermining the entire American labor force. In the end, the
inevitable result of all this is a much lower standard of living for all
working class Americans. And those people are not going to be happy
campers,
even less so as they hear some describe them as too lazy or too uppish to
work.


Yes, it is a vicious cycle...one more people need to jump on the bandwagon
about and get ****ed off enough to change. But they won't, Dwight. It's
been this way for years--this is nothing new. Hell, you buy anything from
China lately? You ever said to yourself you're going to stop buying things
from China? BRING IMMIGRANTS IN?????? Hell, stop buying from China. Worry
about the commies coming over here? Hell, stop buying from China.


Increasing wages is the only answer. And if that drives some less
efficient companies out of business, well too bad. There are no guarantees
in this country (as Charles says) and, if the business is at all
worthwhile,
plenty of other, hopefully better managed, companies will quickly spring
up
to take their place.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/



If your answer is to simply increase wages...you're setting yourself up to
be miserable. Companies are cutting back, trimming the fat, and freezing
wages. And, that is going to be the trend for a few years. The more people
want to deny that 9-11 "didn't affect us," the more they are putting their
heads in the sand. Since 9-11, this country has been trying to recover.
We'll do it...but we were and are a lot more affected than we admit--and
Binnie over there knows it.

Oh, and I note that it's OK--from your perspective--to say "too bad" if your
solution happens to drive some less efficient companies out of business (
your remark above, "And if that drives some less efficient companies out of
business, well too bad.") But you criticize and call me a bigot for my
thoughts along the same lines, from my perspective.

Thanks, Lar---I mean Dwight.

Kim W5TIT