(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (N2EY)
writes:

Try not to strain yourself putting words into others' messages.

What "words have I put in others messages", Len?

Those following -

It's clear from your many, many posts here that you want amateur radio to
become a multiband version of cb.

That's just your DELUSION and fantasy.

Not at all. It's the sum total of what you've been preaching here for
years and years. It explains the motive behind every single post
you've made here.

You rail against "rank, status and privilege", and you make it clear you want
one class of license, or no licenses at all.

I've never been for "no license at all."

That's why I wrote: "one class of license, or no licenses at all".

So you want one class of license - just like cb used to have.

You're against any sort of standards, values, or traditions in amateur radio.

I'm not interested in the standards, values or traditions of the
Archaic Radiotelegraphy Service.

What is the "Archaic Radiotelegraphy Service"?

You obviously don't want any sort of standards, values, or traditions
in amateur radio - again, just like cb.

You're constantly criticizing ARRL without justification, and even accusing
them of fraud - again, with no evidence.

Plenty of evidence of hypocrisy, false "representation," no verification
of their alleged ability to "know what is best for amateur radio."

You have presented no evidence of any of that, just League-bashing
based on your obvious desire for amateur to be without a strong
national organization. Cb never had a strong national organization....

You deny the homebrewing success of others, and the public service
contributions of radio amateurs.

I've never "denied it," delusional fellow.

Yes, you have. When you repeatedly tell untruths about others'
projects, even when corrected, that's denial. Or lying - take your
pick.

You've never offered proof YOUR wonderful amazing state-of-the-art
homebrew radios worked...or even existed.

You'll just have to take my word for it, Len. Besides, you've made it
quite clear that you would reject any "proof" offered by anyone.

And I've never claimed that any of my homebrew projects were "amazing"
or "state-of-the-art".

Cb did not allow its users to homebrew legally.

Quite clear what you would like amateur radio to become, good buddy ;-)

I'm NOT your "good buddy." Haven't you got your eyes in?

Y'know, Len, with that attitude you're not anyone's good buddy.

I'm simply pointing out where your many complaining posts lead. If all of the
things you complain about were eliminated from amateur radio, it would become
quite like cb. You'd like that, I think.

No,

Yes. It's what you obviously want amateur radio to become. One license
class, no homebrewing, no standards, values or traditions, no strong
national organization, no public service.....

Not much. But by the time I became aware of it, I was repelled by the immature
behavior of some of the users there.

How old were you in 1958?

Figure it out. Oh wait, you couldn't remember how old you were in
1948, nor what screen names you've used in rrap.

How "mature" were you that you could "judge" others?

I didn't encounter cb until about 1965. And I found the on-air
behavior of those involved to be extremely immature. I was mature
enough to know I wanted no part of what I heard on the cb channels. So
I just left it alone.

Who are you to judge others, Len? You don't act very mature in here.
In fact, you act here just like the classic schoolyard bully in search
of attention. Why?


What did YOU do to keep that service from becoming such a wasteland?

Irrelevant.

It's very relevant. You are, or were, a cb user, weren't you?

CB has far too many users for too little bandspace.

So it's not their fault? What about personal responsibility for ones'
actions? I guess you reject that, too. "Oh, there aren't enough
channels, so I'll break all the rules..."

What have YOU done to eliminate CB or reduce all that waste?

Not my concern. I've never been a cb user. As long as those folks
don't have a negative affect on amateur radio, I really don't care
what they do on their channels.

And I've never said I wanted to eliminate cb.

YOU seem to know all, be all, yet do nothing of value except
extoll your own alleged expertise in OLD radio arts.

Len, you just described yourself perfectly.

YOU've had 45 years to correct things.

Not my responsibility, Len. I'm not a cb user. Never have been. All I did was
listen there, and tune away in disgust.

Poor baby. "Disgust," is it? :-)

Yep. Disgust.

I'm know many cb users are fine people, but the service is a mess, has been
for decades, and it was a mistake to have ever been created.

Poor thing. You could have DONE something for the betterment
of mankind in 45 years, yet you have not...

Not my concern, Len.

What have YOU done to fix cb?

Irrelevant.

In this case, I think you're saying "nothing".

What needs to be "fixed?"

Simple - just have the users follow the rules.

Restore it to radio amateurs?

That wouldn't fix it.

You can always file a petition with FCC to abolish CB. Go ahead,
make everyone's day. :-)

Not my concern. Amateur radio is my interest, not cb.

The fact is that the cb mess is partly *your* fault, Len. You have
loudly proclaimed your status as a "PROFESSIONAL IN RADIO!!!!!!!!!!!"
here many, many, many times.

Yet the reason FCC created Class C and Class D (27 MHz) cb was because
Class A and Class B (UHF) cb weren't getting many users, due in large
part to lack of suitable manufactured equipment.

The "PROFESSIONALS IN RADIO!!!!!!!!!!!" couldn't figure out how to
build inexpensive UHF cb radio sets back in the '50s, so FCC created
the 27 MHz version. You "PROFESSIONALS IN RADIO!!!!!!!!!!!" figured
out how to make inexpensive 27 MHz sets. I've seen the schematics of
those sets - they weren't "state of the art" 20 years before they were
manufactured. But you "PROFESSIONALS IN RADIO!!!!!!!!!!!" made them,
so the users bought them. And misused them. The rest is history.

It wasn't hams who made a mess of 11 meters. It was "PROFESSIONALS IN
RADIO!!!!!!!!!!!" like you, Len. Now you want to do the same thing to
amateur radio. No thanks.

It might be done some time. It only took 24 years to make the first
dent in the 40m problem with SW BC interfering with the "rightful
ownership by hams" there. :-)

You can't even get the history of that problem right, Len.

Better yet, why bother?

Wait until the code test requirement is removed, and they
won't have to learn something they may never need to
or want to, or have the desire to do.

Clint


--


"Bert Craig" wrote in message
om...
Every one in awhile, I like to remind some here of what it is we're
actually talking about. Kinda like to get the big picture out there
for any potential newbies whom might be fooled into believing the
"barrier" argument that characterizes the Element 1 requirement as
being forced to "jump through hoops."

Step 1. Preparation requires that one listen to a training CD or tape
(ARRL, W5YI, etc.) to learn the sound of two or three characters per
day. There are 43 letters, numbers, punctuation marks, and Pro-signs
in all that one must memorize. Approx. two 20 min. sessions per day is
more than enough to be "reasonably" prepared to pass Element 1 after
approx. one month. (Only have time for one 20 min. session per day?
.make it two months.)

Step 2. Visit some of the websites that have sample CW QSO's.
Familiarize yourself with the format of a simple CW QSO, i.e. RST,
QTH, name, rig, antenna, etc.

Step 3. Just take the test. (And if, for some reason, you don't
pass.take it again.)

Behold the much-feared behemoth:

__________________ BT _R R_T 58_ 589. Q_H IS _HI_ADEL_HIA, _A. BT NA_E
HR IS _OHN ES A_E IS 35 Y_RS O_D. W_ HR IS CLO_DY. RI_ IS _EN_OO_. BT
AN_EN_A IS _I_OL_E.

Five minutes of very clear CW is piped into your headphones at 5-wpm,
not 13-wpm, and not 20-wpm. In the example above, N0CW has missed both
callsigns and pretty much a character or two from almost every word.
But if s/he uses just a little common sense combined with the "few
minutes" s/he's given at the end to fill in the blank, it becomes
quite clear that putting together a string of 25 correct characters is
actually quite easy. Particularly so because numbers, punctuation
marks and pro-signs count as 2 each.

N0CW DE KN0WCW BT UR RST 589 589. QTH IS PHILADEPLPHIA, PA. BT NAME HR
IS JOHN ES AGE IS 35 YERS OLD. WX HR IS CLOUDY. RIG IS KENWOOD. BT
ANTENNA IS DIPOLE.

Funny thing happened the other day. My father asked me what all the
hubbub was about re. the code. (Apparently, I had left my QST in the
car and he decided to peruse away.) I explained that some folks
consider Morse code antiquated and feel that there are better, more
modern, modes in use today. I went on to include that some also feel
that it's unfair to make newcomers "jump through hoops" to become
ARO's, thus constituting a "barrier" to some, otherwise qualified,
potential hams.

So Dad pondered for a moment and furled his 77 yr. old eyebrows and
said. "They're right, Morse code IS antiquated." My jaw dropped, "say
it ain't so!" (E tu Brute?!) He then asked me about the licensing
structure and I explained the three-tier system presently in place.
"You've gotta keep the code test in place though." Ok, now I'm a tad
confused. "Why, if it's antiquated?" I asked.

"Values, my boy.values. Just ask yourself if this is what you want to
teach your own children? Should they apply this logic to other aspects
of their lives as they grow up? How about an aspiring Engineer, why
should s/he be forced to learn history? How about an aspiring history
teacher, why should s/he learn physics? There's a bunch of different
analogies than can be applied, some good and some not so good, but
there's one common thread.values. Knowledge is NEVER wasted and
"requiring" one to attain a "reasonable" level of knowledge to enjoy
increased privileges.whether it be in the ARS, the workplace, or life
in general is fundamental to nurturing a sense of values. Let that
decay and the result will be obvious.like the recent Regents exam
fiasco. Don't lower the bar across the board; help raise the
individual's standards. It appears to me that there already exists a
no-code exam and 5-wpm seems quite reasonable.so what's all the hubbub
about?"

Then I remembered why I chose my callsign.

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

I just had a great QSO in the Extra part of 80cw with a 84 year old guy.
Really enjoyed it. I was running my 40 year old Hallicrafters gear and had
a blast with it.

And I came here. Bye....back to CW.

Dan/W4NTI

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...
Better yet, why bother?

Wait until the code test requirement is removed, and they
won't have to learn something they may never need to
or want to, or have the desire to do.

Clint


--


"Bert Craig" wrote in message
om...
Every one in awhile, I like to remind some here of what it is we're
actually talking about. Kinda like to get the big picture out there
for any potential newbies whom might be fooled into believing the
"barrier" argument that characterizes the Element 1 requirement as
being forced to "jump through hoops."

Step 1. Preparation requires that one listen to a training CD or tape
(ARRL, W5YI, etc.) to learn the sound of two or three characters per
day. There are 43 letters, numbers, punctuation marks, and Pro-signs
in all that one must memorize. Approx. two 20 min. sessions per day is
more than enough to be "reasonably" prepared to pass Element 1 after
approx. one month. (Only have time for one 20 min. session per day?
.make it two months.)

Step 2. Visit some of the websites that have sample CW QSO's.
Familiarize yourself with the format of a simple CW QSO, i.e. RST,
QTH, name, rig, antenna, etc.

Step 3. Just take the test. (And if, for some reason, you don't
pass.take it again.)

Behold the much-feared behemoth:

__________________ BT _R R_T 58_ 589. Q_H IS _HI_ADEL_HIA, _A. BT NA_E
HR IS _OHN ES A_E IS 35 Y_RS O_D. W_ HR IS CLO_DY. RI_ IS _EN_OO_. BT
AN_EN_A IS _I_OL_E.

Five minutes of very clear CW is piped into your headphones at 5-wpm,
not 13-wpm, and not 20-wpm. In the example above, N0CW has missed both
callsigns and pretty much a character or two from almost every word.
But if s/he uses just a little common sense combined with the "few
minutes" s/he's given at the end to fill in the blank, it becomes
quite clear that putting together a string of 25 correct characters is
actually quite easy. Particularly so because numbers, punctuation
marks and pro-signs count as 2 each.

N0CW DE KN0WCW BT UR RST 589 589. QTH IS PHILADEPLPHIA, PA. BT NAME HR
IS JOHN ES AGE IS 35 YERS OLD. WX HR IS CLOUDY. RIG IS KENWOOD. BT
ANTENNA IS DIPOLE.

Funny thing happened the other day. My father asked me what all the
hubbub was about re. the code. (Apparently, I had left my QST in the
car and he decided to peruse away.) I explained that some folks
consider Morse code antiquated and feel that there are better, more
modern, modes in use today. I went on to include that some also feel
that it's unfair to make newcomers "jump through hoops" to become
ARO's, thus constituting a "barrier" to some, otherwise qualified,
potential hams.

So Dad pondered for a moment and furled his 77 yr. old eyebrows and
said. "They're right, Morse code IS antiquated." My jaw dropped, "say
it ain't so!" (E tu Brute?!) He then asked me about the licensing
structure and I explained the three-tier system presently in place.
"You've gotta keep the code test in place though." Ok, now I'm a tad
confused. "Why, if it's antiquated?" I asked.

"Values, my boy.values. Just ask yourself if this is what you want to
teach your own children? Should they apply this logic to other aspects
of their lives as they grow up? How about an aspiring Engineer, why
should s/he be forced to learn history? How about an aspiring history
teacher, why should s/he learn physics? There's a bunch of different
analogies than can be applied, some good and some not so good, but
there's one common thread.values. Knowledge is NEVER wasted and
"requiring" one to attain a "reasonable" level of knowledge to enjoy
increased privileges.whether it be in the ARS, the workplace, or life
in general is fundamental to nurturing a sense of values. Let that
decay and the result will be obvious.like the recent Regents exam
fiasco. Don't lower the bar across the board; help raise the
individual's standards. It appears to me that there already exists a
no-code exam and 5-wpm seems quite reasonable.so what's all the hubbub
about?"

Then I remembered why I chose my callsign.

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

In article . net, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

I just had a great QSO in the Extra part of 80cw with a 84 year old guy.
Really enjoyed it. I was running my 40 year old Hallicrafters gear and had
a blast with it.

And I came here. Bye....back to CW.

Dan/W4NTI

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message

Some folks just can't cut it on newsgroups. Say goodnight, Dan.

"Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out"... (courtesy of
L. Roll)