"N2EY" wrote


Well, I simply disagree. Most people in the USA don't really know what
Morse
code is.


I suppose that depends on what 'is' really is.

If I walk up to 100 random people over the age of 10 in a shopping mall and
ask them "what is the Morse code", I'm sure every one them would give me an
answer. You'd get answers like:

"The alphabet in dots and dashes".
"Those clicks they used to send telegrams in the cowboy movies."
"SOS"
"Those beeps and boops I used to hear on my SW receiver."
"A barrier to entry into HF amateur radio." [The devil made me say that.]
etc., etc., etc.

My point is that most people in the USA have at least a passing familiarity
with *what* Morse code is, even if they can't recite the code for each
letter/numeral.

73, de Hans, K0HB

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I don't oppose a time limit per se. I don't like a ten year time limit
though.


Why? It's my understanding that the 10-year idea is based partly on the

current

license term and partly on the idea that we don't want to force anyone out
because of "life happens" events like education and family.

Its just too long.


Is it really too long, particularly considering the two-year experience
requirement?

One of the problems with the old 1 and 2 year Novices was that if a new ham ran
into "life happens" situations, their upgrade schedule would be seriously
disprupted.

Example: A few weeks after a teenager gets the Novice license his folks inform
him that the family is moving across the country. New house isn't quite ready
so they'll be living in temporary quarters for a while. Meanwhile most of their
stuff is in storage. "A while" becomes "a few months"..

Finally they get into the new house and there's a flurry of activity to get set
up - and the parents say ham radio isn't a top priority. By the time Our Hero
is back on the air, there's not much time left on his one-year license.

Look how long it's taken some *adults* (alleged adults, anyway) in this NG to
upgrade, or even get licenses.


The license renewal period would just be another
number by that time, since the new A license would be forever. I'm busy
as all gitout, and it took me something over a week of hard study to get
ready for the Extra.


Very true!

Plus I can't figure out what can make a person qualified to operate on
day 3652 of their licensing period and unqualified on day 3653.


The same principle that makes a General or Advanced class ham qualfied to
operate on 3526 kHz but not on 3524 kHz.

The same principle that makes a Tech Plus ham qualified to operate a
transmitter of 1500 W output using any authorized mode on 6 meters but not 10
meters.

I don't agree there Jim! True enough, its an arbitrary thing, but what
you are talking about is power limits and sub-bands, and I am talking
about the qualifications to operate *at all*. the other folks simply
operate within the limitations of their licenses, and the 10 year and 1
day class B ham is no ham at all anymore.


It takes
a lot less time than that to understand RF safety - the only real reason
I can think of for the second class license, so if we're going to do
this, it should make some timing sense.


There's a lot more to it than RF safety.


I support a time in grade, even though I would be frustrated (read
teased) by a two year stint before I could get the class A.

BTDT.

Not sure about BTDT.


Been There, Done That


Another
thing, which would be a little strange would be having to have a control
op at field day (or operate lower power)


Why would that be strange? It's the rule *today*.

I keep drawing parallels between the second class license and Generals.
We try to get people out to operate on field day, and you can get some
pretty strange setups. First a Ham with less than 2 years time in grade
would have to have a control op.


Why?

If he/she is operating 50 Watts, they are outside their priveliges.


As long as the power level is less than 50 W, that Class B ham could operate
any freq, any mode, as the control op.

Ahh, but now we have to set up a special low power station. The low
power ghetto I was talking about. For good or bad, my club runs high
power during Field Day. I'm taking my reference of "Class B Ghetto" from
experience with the GOTA station. The first year our GOTA station
operated, many of the people operating it called it a "toy station".
They could op one of the high power stations, park on a frequency, and
rack up points, and the lowly GOTA station has to hunt and pounce. It
wasn't until I put PSK31 on the GOTA station that it took off.

note: I'm not suggesting that newbies use high power. Just the opposite
in fact. Hunt and pounce at low power builds competence in the new ham.
But its so hard to compete with power when you're working like crazy to
get a QSO, and the guy in the next tent is racking them up at a high rate.

We have hams what operate now at field
day that would suddenly have to have a control op (therefore taking
myself or another Extra away from a station)


Not at all! Existing hams would retain their existing privs under Hans'
proposal.

I'm saying that I'm sitting with the guy as a control op and not
operating myself.



Of course the second class
ham could operate a 50 watt or less station, but that would mean that
either we change our setup - all stations except GOTA are full output -
or set up a special station just for the second class hams, a sort of
low power ghetto.


You mean you folks operate 1500 W on FD? (that's "full output")

Actually we operat @1kW. My bad.


Heck, the GOTA station can run more power. Maybe this
is no problem for you, but for others it isn't so good


Try QRP some time ;-)

Nothing wrong with QRP. I'm just noting possible problems as outlined
above. If you're going QRP then everyone is operating at less than 5 watts.


The fact is that if a non-Extra wants to operate FD, there has to be a control
op present whenever the non-Extra exceeds his-her subband restrictions. That's
a lot more onerous than turning down the power to 50 W.

I stayed in my bands when I was a General at FD. Wasn't a problem.


Back in the late '60s and early '70s, there were *four* FD power levels:
QRP, 50 W, 150 W, and the legal limit, IIRC.

Could be. But if we went back to that, the clubs could be forced to
make a decision to either run what they would like to run, take control
ops away from available stations for those who don't have time in grade.
(or the proper upgrade) or make that little ghetto for the second class
Hams. I really don't think that is a good way to welcome new people. YMMV.


There's another option: Change the rules so that different power levels could
be used for different stations in the same multi setup. (It used to be this
way!)

This might work well enough, but I still don't care for relegating the
class B to the ghetto, or to remove an Extra or class A from operating
to be a control op.

I know that the others I work with on field day wouldn't be too wild
about that sort of thing either. These are people that love working high
power, and enjoy racking up points. Inexperienced users can get working
with us, but adding another station (and putting us in another class)
for a 50 watt station isn't going to be too popular with them - and
after all, they and myself are the ones doing the setup and teardown, so
as long as we are within the rules, we should be allowed to do this. I
just don't think that the proposed setup will be both newbie friendly
and experienced friendly at the same time.

Note I'm not saying things couldn't work. I'm saying that every time I
turn around, this proposal is bumping into something else, and not
necessarily in a good way. It starts out prety simply, but then we have
to do all kinds of things to shoehorn it into the real world. So we end
up changing this so can coexist with the thing we changed before in
order to avoid messing that up which came about as a result of modifying
the rule that contradicted...........

"Mike Coslo" wrote

Ahh, but now we have to set up a special low power station.

No you don't. At worst you need to put a wattmeter in the transmission
line, and maybe a neon-orange sign reading "Observe the power limits of your
operators license." with an arrow pointing to the "Pwr" knob on the radio.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

(snip) Fact is, though, you did open yourself
up with the statement, "Few people today
(especially boys and men) have not learned
code, or at least played around with it, at
some point in their lives." (snip)


Is that sentence what this is all about, Kim (and Dee)? If so, lets
forget
about debate rules and discuss how to write instead. I wrote a paragraph
which contained a lead, supposition or hypothesis, and a conclusion. The
"fact" mentioned in the lead of that paragraph is in the conclusion of
that
paragraph, not in any single sentence leading up to that conclusion. The
sentence quoted above is supposition leading to the conclusion. The
conclusion of that paragraph, and the "fact" mentioned in the lead of that
paragraph, is, "...most adults today are familiar enough with code to know
whether they have any real interest in it." Based on what I wrote in that
paragraph, and in subsequent messages, I do believe that conclusion to be
fact.

And the conclusion of this message is, if that sentence is indeed the
root
Dee's objection, we've spent several days arguing over two entirely
different things - that sentence in Dee's case and the overall conclusion
in
my case.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


Well, I am actually *supposing* that is what it is that Dee is basing the
major part of the discussion on. Dee? (PS--it doesn't matter a whoot for
me, I think I'm not so driven by statements as I am concepts).

Kim W5TIT

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
nk.net...
I based that on the fact that Morse code has been widely featured in
movies (Titantic to War Movies), television (Hogan's Heros to Westerns to
Sci-Fi), books, children's toys, the military decades ago, youth
organizations, and so on. So, again, I do think it is a fact that most
people in this country today know about Morse code. They may not know what
it's called, how to do it, or whatever, but only a truly isolated person
would not know at least something about it. That is especially true for
anyone interested in radio (shortwave listeners, potential new hams, and
so
on).

Such exposure doesn't give anyone sufficient information to make an informed
decision.


You haven't provided anything beyond your own opinion to dispute any of
that. Instead, you assault my choice of words and then insist, even if
true,
that is not enough - that one must have practical experience to truly make
a
choice. Of course, that's nonsense. One does not have to murder someone to
know that murder is not something one would particularly like to do.
Indeed,
we make choices in our lives each day without personal experience to back
it
up. Your demand for more here shows a serious lack of respect for people's
ability to make their own choices.



Again you are NOT reading my words. I've repeatedly stated that one can
make judgments based on risks, dangers, and harm even if they have not
experienced it. Murder does serious harm and therefore does not need to be
experienced. However where such detrimental effects don't come into play,
it is not possible to say one does or does not like something unless they
have experienced it. One may think they won't like it but they truly do not
have the tools to do other than make an assumption.

I refrain from forming opinions on things I've never tried. There will be
things that I will never form an opinion on. For example my fear of the
risks of skydiving will never allow me to try it. So I do not know whether
I would like it or not and refrain from making a judgment on it. I've never
had occasion to eat frog legs or squid so I refrain from judging whether or
not I would like these foods. And so on.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

Such exposure doesn't give anyone
sufficient information to make an
informed decision.


Of course, that's just an opinion, isn't it? You're not an expert on the
human decision making process and there are no studies to show whether it is
or isn't sufficient, right? If not, your opinion is no more valid than mine.


Again you are NOT reading my words.
I've repeatedly stated that one can make
judgments based on risks, dangers, and
harm even if they have not experienced it.
Murder does serious harm and therefore
does not need to be experienced.
However where such detrimental effects
don't come into play, it is not possible to
say one does or does not like something
unless they have experienced it. (snip)


Again, we make decisions each day without personal experience to
necessarily back it up. This includes who we associate with, who we date,
what we eat for lunch, what books we buy, what shows we watch on television,
whether we marry, and the list goes on virtually forever. And, again, your
demand for more here shows a serious lack of respect for people's ability to
make their own choices.


I refrain from forming opinions on things
I've never tried. There will be things that
I will never form an opinion on. (snip)


I find that very difficult to believe, Dee. Did you try actual marrage
before actually getting married? Did you try driving on the highway before
deciding to get a license? Did you try your job before actually taking it?
Again, there are many things we choose to do or not do without actually
trying them first.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

KØHB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote


Ahh, but now we have to set up a special low power station.


No you don't. At worst you need to put a wattmeter in the transmission
line, and maybe a neon-orange sign reading "Observe the power limits of your
operators license." with an arrow pointing to the "Pwr" knob on the radio.

At worst......

So we operate class one while operating 50 watts. Another bump.

All this is not insurmountable, but far reaching.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote


So we operate class one while operating 50 watts. Another bump.


Lifes a bitch, and then you die and they give away your call sign!

73, de Hans, K0HB

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I don't oppose a time limit per se. I don't like a ten year time limit
though.


Why? It's my understanding that the 10-year idea is based partly on the

current

license term and partly on the idea that we don't want to force anyone out
because of "life happens" events like education and family.

Its just too long.


Is it really too long, particularly considering the two-year experience
requirement?

One of the problems with the old 1 and 2 year Novices was that if a new ham ran
into "life happens" situations, their upgrade schedule would be seriously
disprupted.

Example: A few weeks after a teenager gets the Novice license his folks inform
him that the family is moving across the country. New house isn't quite ready
so they'll be living in temporary quarters for a while. Meanwhile most of their
stuff is in storage. "A while" becomes "a few months"..

Finally they get into the new house and there's a flurry of activity to get set
up - and the parents say ham radio isn't a top priority. By the time Our Hero
is back on the air, there's not much time left on his one-year license.

Look how long it's taken some *adults* (alleged adults, anyway) in this NG to
upgrade, or even get licenses.


The license renewal period would just be another
number by that time, since the new A license would be forever. I'm busy
as all gitout, and it took me something over a week of hard study to get
ready for the Extra.


Very true!

Plus I can't figure out what can make a person qualified to operate on
day 3652 of their licensing period and unqualified on day 3653.


The same principle that makes a General or Advanced class ham qualfied to
operate on 3526 kHz but not on 3524 kHz.

The same principle that makes a Tech Plus ham qualified to operate a
transmitter of 1500 W output using any authorized mode on 6 meters but not 10
meters.

I don't agree there Jim! True enough, its an arbitrary thing, but what
you are talking about is power limits and sub-bands, and I am talking
about the qualifications to operate *at all*. the other folks simply
operate within the limitations of their licenses, and the 10 year and 1
day class B ham is no ham at all anymore.

Just like the old Novices when their licenses ran out.

Point is, that hypothetical Class B had a window of 8 *years* to
upgrade to Class A. You said it took you all of a week to get ready
for Extra.

It takes
a lot less time than that to understand RF safety - the only real reason
I can think of for the second class license, so if we're going to do
this, it should make some timing sense.

There's a lot more to it than RF safety.

I support a time in grade, even though I would be frustrated (read
teased) by a two year stint before I could get the class A.

BTDT.

Not sure about BTDT.


Been There, Done That


Another
thing, which would be a little strange would be having to have a control
op at field day (or operate lower power)


Why would that be strange? It's the rule *today*.

I keep drawing parallels between the second class license and Generals.
We try to get people out to operate on field day, and you can get some
pretty strange setups. First a Ham with less than 2 years time in grade
would have to have a control op.


Why?

If he/she is operating 50 Watts, they are outside their priveliges.

OK. So turn down the power.

As long as the power level is less than 50 W, that Class B ham could operate
any freq, any mode, as the control op.

Ahh, but now we have to set up a special low power station. The low
power ghetto I was talking about. For good or bad, my club runs high
power during Field Day.

Most clubs don't.

And if the power levels were restructured, the points from a 50 watt
station could make more difference than those from a 1500 W station.

I'm taking my reference of "Class B Ghetto" from
experience with the GOTA station. The first year our GOTA station
operated, many of the people operating it called it a "toy station".

That's *their* problem.

They could op one of the high power stations, park on a frequency, and
rack up points, and the lowly GOTA station has to hunt and pounce. It
wasn't until I put PSK31 on the GOTA station that it took off.

So? They're used to being Big Guns. Anybody who wants to be a Big Gun
could just get a Class A and be done with it.

note: I'm not suggesting that newbies use high power. Just the opposite
in fact. Hunt and pounce at low power builds competence in the new ham.
But its so hard to compete with power when you're working like crazy to
get a QSO, and the guy in the next tent is racking them up at a high rate.

That's part of the experience requirement. Part of the plan.

And remember the power multiplier idea. If the 50 watt station is
hunt/pecking 20 per hour but has a 3.5 multiplier, they're making more
points than the Big Gun doing 60 per hour.

We have hams what operate now at field
day that would suddenly have to have a control op (therefore taking
myself or another Extra away from a station)

Not at all! Existing hams would retain their existing privs under Hans'
proposal.

I'm saying that I'm sitting with the guy as a control op and not
operating myself.

If they're existing hams (say, Generals) they could still do what
they've always done. If they're unlicensed, or not licensed for the
freq/power/mode in use, they still need a control op today.

And one of the *best* ways for them to learn is to work with an
experienced op.

Of course the second class
ham could operate a 50 watt or less station, but that would mean that
either we change our setup - all stations except GOTA are full output -
or set up a special station just for the second class hams, a sort of
low power ghetto.

You mean you folks operate 1500 W on FD? (that's "full output")

Actually we operat @1kW. My bad.

FD rules can be changed, y'know.


Heck, the GOTA station can run more power. Maybe this
is no problem for you, but for others it isn't so good


Try QRP some time ;-)

Nothing wrong with QRP. I'm just noting possible problems as outlined
above. If you're going QRP then everyone is operating at less than 5 watts.

Only if the current rules are kept.

The fact is that if a non-Extra wants to operate FD, there has to be a control
op present whenever the non-Extra exceeds his-her subband restrictions. That's
a lot more onerous than turning down the power to 50 W.

I stayed in my bands when I was a General at FD. Wasn't a problem.

It's been so long since I had to worry about such things.....;-)

Back in the late '60s and early '70s, there were *four* FD power levels:
QRP, 50 W, 150 W, and the legal limit, IIRC.

Could be. But if we went back to that, the clubs could be forced to
make a decision to either run what they would like to run, take control
ops away from available stations for those who don't have time in grade.
(or the proper upgrade) or make that little ghetto for the second class
Hams. I really don't think that is a good way to welcome new people. YMMV.


There's another option: Change the rules so that different power levels could
be used for different stations in the same multi setup. (It used to be this
way!)

This might work well enough, but I still don't care for relegating the
class B to the ghetto, or to remove an Extra or class A from operating
to be a control op.

Then let the Class Bs keep a log or feed the generator or cook
weenies. Or, heaven forbid, take the Class A test. Is it gonna kill
'em?

I know that the others I work with on field day wouldn't be too wild
about that sort of thing either. These are people that love working high
power, and enjoy racking up points.

Uh-huh. How many points did they make per transmitter last year?

Inexperienced users can get working
with us, but adding another station (and putting us in another class)
for a 50 watt station isn't going to be too popular with them - and
after all, they and myself are the ones doing the setup and teardown, so
as long as we are within the rules, we should be allowed to do this. I
just don't think that the proposed setup will be both newbie friendly
and experienced friendly at the same time.

Then the rules need some refining.


Note I'm not saying things couldn't work. I'm saying that every time I
turn around, this proposal is bumping into something else, and not
necessarily in a good way.

So does any other proposal. FD is once a year. It's supposed to be a
learning experience, last time I checked.

It starts out prety simply, but then we have
to do all kinds of things to shoehorn it into the real world. So we end
up changing this so can coexist with the thing we changed before in
order to avoid messing that up which came about as a result of modifying
the rule that contradicted...........

Then what's *your* solution, Mike?

I don't agree with all of Hans' ideas, but at least he's put forth a
coherent proposal.

I'd have three license classes, all renewable, minimum 1 year in each
class experience required, power levels 100W, 400W, 1500W,
subbands-by-license-class on HF/MF, and better writtens.


73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...


snippage


I don't agree there Jim! True enough, its an arbitrary thing, but what
you are talking about is power limits and sub-bands, and I am talking
about the qualifications to operate *at all*. the other folks simply
operate within the limitations of their licenses, and the 10 year and 1
day class B ham is no ham at all anymore.


Just like the old Novices when their licenses ran out.

Point is, that hypothetical Class B had a window of 8 *years* to
upgrade to Class A. You said it took you all of a week to get ready
for Extra.

Granted, I had a head start, and didn't need as much time as some, but
I find it hard to argue that 10 years is a good time limit when it isn't
needed. Anyone that takes ten years to upgrade to Extra is probably not
going to upgrade to Extra. Ooops, class A.


I keep drawing parallels between the second class license and Generals.
We try to get people out to operate on field day, and you can get some
pretty strange setups. First a Ham with less than 2 years time in grade
would have to have a control op.


Why?

If he/she is operating 50 Watts, they are outside their priveliges.


OK. So turn down the power.

Sigh... our club has a group of guys and gals that make a big
production out of FD. It isn't what everyone does, but its what we do.
We don't want to run 50 watts. The first year I went to field day, I was
a Technician. I got to run a high power station with a control op
logging. It was great, and was what really got me interested in getting
my General. then I logged while he opped.

Then next year, when I had my General, I could op by myself,
discovering the joy of overnight operation.

My points are two. We worked in this rank beginner from a technician
up, and didn't interfere with the station operation, and it worked well.
No adjustments needed. And I was part of the group from the git-go.


As long as the power level is less than 50 W, that Class B ham could operate
any freq, any mode, as the control op.

Ahh, but now we have to set up a special low power station. The low
power ghetto I was talking about. For good or bad, my club runs high
power during Field Day.


Most clubs don't.

We do.


And if the power levels were restructured, the points from a 50 watt
station could make more difference than those from a 1500 W station.

Another "if-then" situation. Gaw, were getting a lot of them.



I'm taking my reference of "Class B Ghetto" from
experience with the GOTA station. The first year our GOTA station
operated, many of the people operating it called it a "toy station".


That's *their* problem.

And it becomes *our* problem then. Since then, I have worked hard to
make the GOTA operators feel like part of the group. move that tent
nearer the big tent. Keep more people than just myself and the person at
the mic there. I'm a little surprised, Jim. All that I'm talking about
is making these potential hams and inactive hams feel like maybe we
*want* them there. Your arguments sound a little like some of the old
cranks I hear once in a while.


They could op one of the high power stations, park on a frequency, and
rack up points, and the lowly GOTA station has to hunt and pounce. It
wasn't until I put PSK31 on the GOTA station that it took off.


So? They're used to being Big Guns. Anybody who wants to be a Big Gun
could just get a Class A and be done with it.

After two years.


note: I'm not suggesting that newbies use high power. Just the opposite
in fact. Hunt and pounce at low power builds competence in the new ham.
But its so hard to compete with power when you're working like crazy to
get a QSO, and the guy in the next tent is racking them up at a high rate.


That's part of the experience requirement. Part of the plan.

And remember the power multiplier idea. If the 50 watt station is
hunt/pecking 20 per hour but has a 3.5 multiplier, they're making more
points than the Big Gun doing 60 per hour.

"if-then"


We have hams what operate now at field
day that would suddenly have to have a control op (therefore taking
myself or another Extra away from a station)



Not at all! Existing hams would retain their existing privs under Hans'
proposal.

I'm saying that I'm sitting with the guy as a control op and not
operating myself.


If they're existing hams (say, Generals) they could still do what
they've always done. If they're unlicensed, or not licensed for the
freq/power/mode in use, they still need a control op today.

And one of the *best* ways for them to learn is to work with an
experienced op.


Of course the second class
ham could operate a 50 watt or less station, but that would mean that
either we change our setup - all stations except GOTA are full output -
or set up a special station just for the second class hams, a sort of
low power ghetto.

You mean you folks operate 1500 W on FD? (that's "full output")

Actually we operat @1kW. My bad.


FD rules can be changed, y'know.


Heck, the GOTA station can run more power. Maybe this
is no problem for you, but for others it isn't so good


Try QRP some time ;-)

Nothing wrong with QRP. I'm just noting possible problems as outlined
above. If you're going QRP then everyone is operating at less than 5 watts.


Only if the current rules are kept.

The fact is that if a non-Extra wants to operate FD, there has to be a control
op present whenever the non-Extra exceeds his-her subband restrictions. That's
a lot more onerous than turning down the power to 50 W.

I stayed in my bands when I was a General at FD. Wasn't a problem.


It's been so long since I had to worry about such things.....;-)

Back in the late '60s and early '70s, there were *four* FD power levels:
QRP, 50 W, 150 W, and the legal limit, IIRC.

Could be. But if we went back to that, the clubs could be forced to
make a decision to either run what they would like to run, take control
ops away from available stations for those who don't have time in grade.
(or the proper upgrade) or make that little ghetto for the second class
Hams. I really don't think that is a good way to welcome new people. YMMV.


There's another option: Change the rules so that different power levels could
be used for different stations in the same multi setup. (It used to be this
way!)

This might work well enough, but I still don't care for relegating the
class B to the ghetto, or to remove an Extra or class A from operating
to be a control op.


Then let the Class Bs keep a log or feed the generator or cook
weenies. Or, heaven forbid, take the Class A test. Is it gonna kill
'em?

I know that the others I work with on field day wouldn't be too wild
about that sort of thing either. These are people that love working high
power, and enjoy racking up points.


Uh-huh. How many points did they make per transmitter last year?

We were 3A

W3YA + W3GA (GOTA) did 7362 points - I don't have the breakdown for each
transmitter. We don't get any power multiplier at all, so what you see
is what we get.

Inexperienced users can get working
with us, but adding another station (and putting us in another class)
for a 50 watt station isn't going to be too popular with them - and
after all, they and myself are the ones doing the setup and teardown, so
as long as we are within the rules, we should be allowed to do this. I
just don't think that the proposed setup will be both newbie friendly
and experienced friendly at the same time.


Then the rules need some refining.


Note I'm not saying things couldn't work. I'm saying that every time I
turn around, this proposal is bumping into something else, and not
necessarily in a good way.


So does any other proposal. FD is once a year. It's supposed to be a
learning experience, last time I checked.


It starts out pretty simply, but then we have
to do all kinds of things to shoehorn it into the real world. So we end
up changing this so can coexist with the thing we changed before in
order to avoid messing that up which came about as a result of modifying
the rule that contradicted...........


Then what's *your* solution, Mike?

I don't agree with all of Hans' ideas, but at least he's put forth a
coherent proposal.

I gave mine a while back, and I'll give it again.

Technician

General

Extra

Same rules as now. Tests expanded for General and Extra.

Minimum impact, and there ya go. Question pool change.


I'd have three license classes, all renewable, minimum 1 year in each
class experience required, power levels 100W, 400W, 1500W,
subbands-by-license-class on HF/MF, and better writtens.

And I'm still a little surprised, Jim. Perhaps I shouldn't point out
any problems that will happen under Hans' proposal? I get the impression
from your answers - "so what" "that's their problem" "Uh Huh" and the
like, that you must think my objections are as Hans describes me
sometimes - "novel".

What the heck? Perhaps it's better if I just keep the old yap shut?
Anytime things are changed, things are impacted. We can point them out
before hand, or run into them blind.

You might not think my concerns are valid, but I can tell you that I
know plenty of people that have the same concerns. We are all novel I
guess! 8^) Maybe I point out small facts - but I've pointed out a pretty
fair number of them, and I'm not looking very hard. Any small fact is
insignificant by itself, but when a lot of them come up.....


- Mike KB3EIA -