I am sick and tired of the signs and the pious folks who loudly
proclaim that "JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON" and "KEEP CHRIST IN
CHRISTMAS".


"Pagans had traditionally decked their
halls with boughs of holly, evergreens and mistletoe to symbolize
winter's inability to prevent the renewal of life. Merrymaking came to
have a share in Christmas observance through popular enthusiasm. The
medieval secular celebrations lasted for a "season," extending from
Christmas eve to Epiphany, and in some localities even from St.
Thomas' Day, Dec. 21 (honoring the "doubting Thomas," disciple of
Jesus) to Candlemas (February 2).

AKA Groundhog Day....

There was some dispute about the proper date of the birth of Christ
and not everyone agrees even to this day.

Last I heard, it was sometime in the spring. So JC wasn't born on
Christmas Day
(DEC 25) but likely sometime during Lent. Around 6BC. It's a trivial
issue
as far as beliving in God anyway. Another trivial issue is that Adam
and Eve
thing that has some in the Bible Belt upset about evolution.

As for Santa Claus, he has more connection to JC than Xmas trees. Santa
is a modified version of St. Nichilas, who used to give gifts to kids in
his town to celebrate JC's birth.

It was not until A.D. 350,
that December 25 was declared the official date for celebrating
Christmas by Pope Julius I. When the fathers of the church decided to
settle upon a date to celebrate the event, they wisely chose the day
of the winter solstice, since it coincided with some rival religions'
celebrations and the rebirth of the sun and approaching longer days,
symbolized by bon-fires and yule logs.

It was partially cover to choose Dec 25th as, IIRC, Christians were
still getting fed
to lions in hte Roman Empire. So Christians could party without calling
attention to
themselves. Or was the Roman Empire history by then? Been a long time
since
history class....

Did people really worry about the Sun going away forever instead of
comming back
every year? Hey, any reason to party....

In article , Hole E. Ghost
writes:

For centuries the church could not decide on the proper date of the
birth of JC (bible scholars are still debating if this person actually
existed, or if he was just another concoction of the church to control
the masses), according to Ruth Reichmann of the Max Kade
German-American Center, IUPUI, "Pagans had traditionally decked their
halls with boughs of holly, evergreens and mistletoe to symbolize
winter's inability to prevent the renewal of life. Merrymaking came to
have a share in Christmas observance through popular enthusiasm. The
medieval secular celebrations lasted for a "season," extending from
Christmas eve to Epiphany, and in some localities even from St.
Thomas' Day, Dec. 21 (honoring the "doubting Thomas," disciple of
Jesus) to Candlemas (February 2).
There was some dispute about the proper date of the birth of Christ
and not everyone agrees even to this day. It was not until A.D. 350,
that December 25 was declared the official date for celebrating
Christmas by Pope Julius I. When the fathers of the church decided to
settle upon a date to celebrate the event, they wisely chose the day
of the winter solstice, since it coincided with some rival religions'
celebrations and the rebirth of the sun and approaching longer days,
symbolized by bon-fires and yule logs. December 25 was a festival long
before the conversion of the Germanic peoples to Christianity, it
seemed fitting that the time of their winter festival would also be
the time to celebrate the birth of Christ. The darkness that had
frightened and threatened to defeat the ancient pagans, was forever
defeated by the coming of Christ."

Holey:

Yada, yada, yada. We know all about that. Whatever the geneology of
the holiday, the reason that it is celebrated in present times is to
commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ, the Lord and Saviour of all
Christian peoples. Nothing will change that, not even any irrelevant
facts about how the holiday came about. So, please be my guest and
continue to be outraged when us Christians say that "Jesus is the
reason for the season."

May the Peace of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ be with you now
and always.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:

In article , Hole E. Ghost
writes:

For centuries the church could not decide on the proper date of the
birth of JC (bible scholars are still debating if this person actually
existed, or if he was just another concoction of the church to control
the masses), according to Ruth Reichmann of the Max Kade
German-American Center, IUPUI, "Pagans had traditionally decked their
halls with boughs of holly, evergreens and mistletoe to symbolize
winter's inability to prevent the renewal of life. Merrymaking came to
have a share in Christmas observance through popular enthusiasm. The
medieval secular celebrations lasted for a "season," extending from
Christmas eve to Epiphany, and in some localities even from St.
Thomas' Day, Dec. 21 (honoring the "doubting Thomas," disciple of
Jesus) to Candlemas (February 2).
There was some dispute about the proper date of the birth of Christ
and not everyone agrees even to this day. It was not until A.D. 350,
that December 25 was declared the official date for celebrating
Christmas by Pope Julius I. When the fathers of the church decided to
settle upon a date to celebrate the event, they wisely chose the day
of the winter solstice, since it coincided with some rival religions'
celebrations and the rebirth of the sun and approaching longer days,
symbolized by bon-fires and yule logs. December 25 was a festival long
before the conversion of the Germanic peoples to Christianity, it
seemed fitting that the time of their winter festival would also be
the time to celebrate the birth of Christ. The darkness that had
frightened and threatened to defeat the ancient pagans, was forever
defeated by the coming of Christ."

Holey:

Yada, yada, yada. We know all about that. Whatever the geneology of
the holiday, the reason that it is celebrated in present times is to
commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ, the Lord and Saviour of all
Christian peoples.

Yep. Except that some Christians celebrate it on a different day in early
January.

Nothing will change that, not even any irrelevant
facts about how the holiday came about.

They're not irrelevant at all. They show how the pagans were searching
for the Light, and recognized the importance of the Light.

The celebration of Hanukkah has similar connections with Light. Its date
is determined not just by sunlight but also moonlight.

I don't think those non-Christian origins detract from the meaning of the
holiday at all. They simply show the universal nature of the search.

73 de Jim, N2EY

btw, you might want to look up the origin of the word "Easter"...

btw, you might want to look up the origin of the word "Easter"...



And what connection the resurection of Jesus Christ has with rabbits hiding
colored chicken eggs has.

And why no holiday for "Wester", "Norther", and "Souther" :-)

And why kids get dressed up in costumes and ask neighbors for candy on
Halloween. A Chinese friend once asked me about that, all I could say
was that it was an ancient tradition that nobody knows where it came from
or why it was done.

Santa Claus actually has a religious tie in with Christmas. Santa is a
modified version of St Nick, who, a few hundred years ago somewheres
in Europe, would give the kids in his town small gifts to celebrate the
birth of Christ.


Up next: Q sign for Martin Luther King day: QMK

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...



btw, you might want to look up the origin of the word "Easter"...



And what connection the resurection of Jesus Christ has with rabbits
hiding
colored chicken eggs has.

And why no holiday for "Wester", "Norther", and "Souther" :-)

And why kids get dressed up in costumes and ask neighbors for candy on
Halloween. A Chinese friend once asked me about that, all I could say
was that it was an ancient tradition that nobody knows where it came from
or why it was done.


Halloween is a run together form of "All Hallow's Eve, meaning "All Saint's
Eve." It is the night before All Hallow's Day, which is a religious holy
day to honor saints that do not have specific days set aside for them. The
belief used to be that on the night before All Hallow's Day that the Devil's
minions would roam the earth. If one dressed up like ghosts, devils, and
goblins, etc, one would be protected from these creatures (it appears to
have entered Christianity from some pagan religion). Now to prevent these
evil creatures from harming them, ordinary people would give them gifts
(food, candy, etc). Therefore the people who were disguised as these
creatures also needed to do the same so that the devil's minions would not
be able to penetrate their disguises. If a person did not appease the
demons, the demons would play tricks on them. And thus the disguised people
also needed to do the same if the did not receive a treat in order to
maintain their disguise.


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes:

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...



btw, you might want to look up the origin of the word "Easter"...



And what connection the resurection of Jesus Christ has with rabbits
hiding
colored chicken eggs has.

And why no holiday for "Wester", "Norther", and "Souther" :-)

And why kids get dressed up in costumes and ask neighbors for candy on
Halloween. A Chinese friend once asked me about that, all I could say
was that it was an ancient tradition that nobody knows where it came from
or why it was done.


Halloween is a run together form of "All Hallow's Eve, meaning "All Saint's
Eve." It is the night before All Hallow's Day, which is a religious holy
day to honor saints that do not have specific days set aside for them. The
belief used to be that on the night before All Hallow's Day that the Devil's
minions would roam the earth. If one dressed up like ghosts, devils, and
goblins, etc, one would be protected from these creatures (it appears to
have entered Christianity from some pagan religion). Now to prevent these
evil creatures from harming them, ordinary people would give them gifts
(food, candy, etc). Therefore the people who were disguised as these
creatures also needed to do the same so that the devil's minions would not
be able to penetrate their disguises. If a person did not appease the
demons, the demons would play tricks on them. And thus the disguised people
also needed to do the same if the did not receive a treat in order to
maintain their disguise.

I've looked all through Part 97...and ALL volumes of Title 47 C.F.R.
and there is NOTHING applicable to Halloween, Christianity,
Christmas, New Years Day, or anything else in your post.

Here there be demons, of course, but the above has NOTHING to
do with ham radio or even amateur radio.

What dictionary are you using?

What alternate reality are you living in?

WMD

I've looked all through Part 97...and ALL volumes of Title 47 C.F.R.
and there is NOTHING applicable to Halloween, Christianity,
Christmas, New Years Day, or anything else in your post.

Here there be demons, of course, but the above has NOTHING to
do with ham radio or even amateur radio.

What dictionary are you using?

What alternate reality are you living in?

WMD

Oh-Oh Dee you have just violated Len's off topic rule. You better watch it
on the air when he .....wait he doesn't have a ticket. Oh well ....

God Bless 73 Tom KI3R

"garigue" wrote in message
news:nv%Lb.18348$I06.132801@attbi_s01...


I've looked all through Part 97...and ALL volumes of Title 47 C.F.R.
and there is NOTHING applicable to Halloween, Christianity,
Christmas, New Years Day, or anything else in your post.

Here there be demons, of course, but the above has NOTHING to
do with ham radio or even amateur radio.

What dictionary are you using?

What alternate reality are you living in?

WMD

Oh-Oh Dee you have just violated Len's off topic rule. You better watch
it
on the air when he .....wait he doesn't have a ticket. Oh well ....

God Bless 73 Tom KI3R



I long ago killfiled Len. And as the old commercial went "Plop, Plop, Oh
what a relief it is".

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article nv%Lb.18348$I06.132801@attbi_s01, "garigue"
writes:

Oh-Oh Dee you have just violated Len's off topic rule. You better watch it
on the air when he .....wait he doesn't have a ticket. Oh well ....

Dee (aka Ms Manners the Mother) has her "plonk filter" on...which
means she can't see my posts...she said.

Those who use "killfiles" are merely burrowing their heads in the
sand, refusing to look at other opinions.

In any other venue that would be an ultimate dumbing-down. A
firm refusal to even see another "unkind" post. Ostrich manner.

Sort of a psychnological refuge and "safe area" where all the seen
opinions are the "comfortable" ones that all agree upon.

I wouldn't fret none. All the "regulars" in here are mighty macho
morsemen...and one woman trying to sound off like she has a
pair.

I'll let you get back to the MAIN topic in this newsgroup...discussing
favorite female TV stars of the past. That's extremely important from
the aspect of amateur radio policy.

Nice not really talking at you, Tom...

WMD

I'll let you get back to the MAIN topic in this newsgroup...discussing
favorite female TV stars of the past. That's extremely important from
the aspect of amateur radio policy.

Nice not really talking at you, Tom...

WMD

Naw Len ....I was just listening to some stations on the phone part of 40 as
there is a CW contest on and I'm not really into that ....I turned off the
rig after the topic turned to gall bladder surgery. You know Len my
favorite TV lady was Emma Peale on the avengers AKA Dianna Rigg or Riggs.
How is this related to ham radio ...easy ..she looks a heck of a lot better
than the guys at the local radio club.

Take care Len and nice talking wif you ... Tom KI3R