"Chuck...K1KW" wrote:

What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is for
getting on HF!!!! You have to do it!!! That means really figuring out how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your rig
properly, ect.

It can't be that hard; after all, hundreds of thousands of CBers
managed to get on 11 meters. Modern rigs don't require much "tuning"
and most newbies tend to buy pre-assembled dipoles or multiband
verticals. The rigs are plug and play with microphones included.

We had a pretty good license structure in the mid '60s. Most folks
started with a (non-renewable) Novice ticket with very limited
privileges to get their feet wet. Then they upgraded to General with
full amateur privileges.

That wasn't good enough for ARRL. They insisted we needed more license
classes and more exams (incentive licensing). FCC bought into it, and
we all had to upgrade or lose privileges. Now, ARRL is cheapening the
value of those higher class licenses they insisted we get.

I figure that in about five years we'll have only one license class,
and that it will require only a single simple multiple-choice exam.
Will that re-energize ham radio? I doubt it.

Art Harris N2AH

That's one way of looking at it, Jim. To me, it looks like a purely
political move - that is, trying to please the greatest number of
members...and voters...and customers...

400,000 upgraded licences = 400,000 happier ARRL members.
Drop code = some number of happy new HF - using members.
Keep code for Extra licence = a 'tip of the hat' to the 'Extra' class
members, to give them something to be happy about (although keeping
code testing as a requirement for a licence class that provides only
additional phone bandwidth as a perk is pretty odd, I'd say...but it
does make the Extra level licence harder to get - that's what
everybody wants, right?).

-and- the big one:

New entry level licence with 100W on HF phone, plus simplified test =
a whole bunch of happy new potential ARRL members = lots more
potential members....and voters....and customers.....

All of these proposals are good news for the manufacturers of ham
equipment, and perhaps for us too - if demand is increased, production
will increase and prices of HF radios might do down!

Plus, each one of the above members that got something additional
added to their privileges if this proposal is accepted would have the
ARRL to thank for it. In theory, anyway.

Considering that, following the ITU decision to make code optional
most of the world is moving towards removing the mandatory Morse Code
requirement outright, there isn't much else that they could do without
looking like defenders the status quo, and annoying even more of their
members....and denying them the rights being granted to their fellow
amateur radio neighbours in the rest of the world.

Like, for instance, those just north of you have proposed to do - and
that's likely to happen fairly soon, I expect.

73, Leo


On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:42:20 -0700, "K7JEB"
wrote:

snip

You can thank BPL for that. If we can't lick them on the
egress issue, we'll add multi-hundred-thousands of HF ops
to provide a plethora of additional ingress points and let
the BPL system ops assess their network reliability from that.

I don't think we'll be hearing any protests over this proposal
from Yaecomwood either.

Jim, K7JEB
Glendale, AZ

Leo wrote:

400,000 upgraded licences = 400,000 happier ARRL members.

Not true. Only a small percentage of licensees are ARRL members, and they
tend to be the folks that have been hams a long time. The ARRL is sticking
it to the folks who worked hard in the past to pass 20 wpm and the Extra
Class written test. Ironically, those licensees who stand to gain the most
from this proposal are the ones least likely to join the League.

Keep code for Extra licence = a 'tip of the hat' to the 'Extra' class
members, to give them something to be happy about (although keeping
code testing as a requirement for a licence class that provides only
additional phone bandwidth as a perk is pretty odd

5 WPM for Extra Class is an insult, not a tip of the hat. The Extra Class
ticket grants exclusive 25 kHz CW segments on 80, 40, 20, and 15 meters.
These are prime DX frequencies and the proposal doesn't change that. A
higher speed code test for Extra would be more appropriate.

-and- the big one:

New entry level licence with 100W on HF phone, plus simplified test =
a whole bunch of happy new potential ARRL members = lots more
potential members....and voters....and customers.....

This is what the proposal is all about, saving ARRL and the jobs of its
staff. But as we learned after the No-Code license was created in 1991,
most new hams don't join the League.

Art Harris N2AH

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:53:52 GMT, Harris
wrote:

Leo wrote:

400,000 upgraded licences = 400,000 happier ARRL members.

Not true. Only a small percentage of licensees are ARRL members, and they
tend to be the folks that have been hams a long time. The ARRL is sticking
it to the folks who worked hard in the past to pass 20 wpm and the Extra
Class written test. Ironically, those licensees who stand to gain the most
from this proposal are the ones least likely to join the League.

You're right - that should have read "potential ARRL members". As in,
400,000 folks who are so happy that the ARRL got 'em something, that
the ones who aren't already members might just join up. Perhaps that's
what they're thinking, anyway...

My error.


Keep code for Extra licence = a 'tip of the hat' to the 'Extra' class
members, to give them something to be happy about (although keeping
code testing as a requirement for a licence class that provides only
additional phone bandwidth as a perk is pretty odd

5 WPM for Extra Class is an insult, not a tip of the hat. The Extra Class
ticket grants exclusive 25 kHz CW segments on 80, 40, 20, and 15 meters.
These are prime DX frequencies and the proposal doesn't change that. A
higher speed code test for Extra would be more appropriate.

Oops again!

Being that the requirement was dropped fairly recently to 5 wpm, and
that other countries are dropping code altogether as a requirement,
how could the ARRL justify an increase in speed?


-and- the big one:

New entry level licence with 100W on HF phone, plus simplified test =
a whole bunch of happy new potential ARRL members = lots more
potential members....and voters....and customers.....

This is what the proposal is all about, saving ARRL and the jobs of its
staff. But as we learned after the No-Code license was created in 1991,
most new hams don't join the League.

True, but some percentage does, and the more new hams, the more new
members.


Art Harris N2AH

Leo wrote:

Harris wrote:
5 WPM for Extra Class is an insult, not a tip of the hat. The Extra Class
ticket grants exclusive 25 kHz CW segments on 80, 40, 20, and 15 meters.
These are prime DX frequencies and the proposal doesn't change that. A
higher speed code test for Extra would be more appropriate.

Oops again!

Being that the requirement was dropped fairly recently to 5 wpm, and
that other countries are dropping code altogether as a requirement,
how could the ARRL justify an increase in speed?

They probably won't. But if Extra is the top class and the only one to
retain a code test, why not make it realistic one? A 5 WPM test does not
demonstrate code proficiency. A 13 WPM test would be a nice "Tip of the
hat." We 20 WPM Extras haven't had much to cheer about in a LONG time!

Art Harris N2AH

"Chuck...K1KW" wrote in message news:HG2Pb.89209$5V2.165673@attbi_s53...
What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is for
getting on HF!!!!

Who are "you folks", Chuck?

You have to do it!!!

Exactly!

That means really figuring out how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your rig
properly, ect.

Well, most rigs today don't require tuneup. And a lot of them have
automatic
antenna tuners.

You can get all the answers correct on today's exam and
still fail in the real world.

That indicates that the written tests are inadequate.

In fact, there have been "hams" here locally that tried for over a year to
"get out" and learned more in that process than they ever learned by
memorizing today's exam questions.

A year? Good heavens, back in the bad old days, the entry-level
license was
only good for a year! And that was back when ham rigs actually had to
be
tuned up!

If it takes someone with a license and a reasonable budget of time and
money
a whole year to set up a working HF station, something's really wrong.

I submit that these IMPROVEMENTS recommended by the ARRL are a good start
and will have more people LEARNING how to get on HF.

How? There's no additional written testing proposed - in fact, a big
part
of the proposal is free upgrades. If someone doesn't know how to get
on
HF now, how will reducing the entry-level writtens and free upgrades
teach them?

A GOOD thing.

I think the new Novice ida can be a good thing. 37 years ago, that's
how I got started. Didn't take me a year, either, even though I had
to build my transmitter, antenna, receiver...

The
bands are FAR less busy than they were 30 years ago.

How do you know?

We have more bands and modes than 30 years ago, so we're apt to
be spread out more.

Unless we get more
people into this great hobby, it's gone...

We have more hams today than ever before! 30 years ago (1974), there
were less than half as many hams as today. So the number of hams isn't
the problem at all.


And to really improve HF operations on ham radio...we must get rid of the
archaic mode divisions on each band.

Let's do this:

Lower 15-20% of each band: CW only
Middle 20-25% of each band: Mixed digital/CW (digital preferred)
Rest of the band: Analog phone/image.

80 meters, for example:

3500-3575 CW only
3575-3725 Digital/CW
3725-4000 Analog phone/image

I would like to see us have the same
privileges as the rest of the world's amateurs enjoy

Including their power limits and written tests?

....or are we not good enough???

We're simply too numerous.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Only a small percentage of licensees are ARRL members, and they
tend to be the folks that have been hams a long time. The ARRL is sticking
it to the folks who worked hard in the past to pass 20 wpm and the Extra

Well I have given the CBRRL its last chance. Since they could care less about
Ham Radio, and could care less about there Members. They can count on me for no
renew, after 25 Years of being a Member, I can see no reason to remain a
Member. So long ARRL and good luck with your new Direction

"N2EY" wrote

Let's do this:

Lower 15-20% of each band: CW only

Now there's a progressive forward looking idea for the 21st Century. Or
more likely TMDAIPORTM** .

Jim, if you don't like people making fun of your ideas, don't make so
easy for them to do so!

73, de Hans, K0HB

** The Most Dumb Assed Idea Posted on RRAP This Month

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(WA8ULX) writes:


I am starting to believe you now Bruce.

Dan/W4NTI


Dan its what I have been saying all along. I cant see how anyone in there
right
mind could say the ARRL is trying to help Ham Radio.

Dan/Bruce:

The ARRL is obviously trying to help itself with their new proposal. I'm
convinced that it is their belief that the new proposal serves two
critical
objectives:

1.) It gives away enough operating privileges to the know-nothing,
do-nothing,
lazy, no-coder whiners to make them happy,

and, by keeping the 5 WPM code test for Extra,

2.) It hopefully won't offend the likes of the withered, feeble,
FISTS-member
geezers who are daily trashing the CW subbands with their numbers games
and their sloppy, indecipherable sending with mal-adjusted bugs.

Don't expect the "Gang of Fifteen" to be very willing to listen to any of
the
membership for adjustments to the proposal, particularly the notion of
increasing the Extra-class code speed to 12, 13, or 20 WPM.

73 de Larry, K3LT


I don't think the gang of fifteen to listen to a damn thing. That is
obvious by their recent proposal.

Even the local two meter, no code techs don't like it.

And the ARRL claims to be a voice for ham radio? Its not the ham radio I
knew and loved. I don't know what it is anymore.

Dan/W4NTI

"Art Harris" wrote in message
om...
"Chuck...K1KW" wrote:

What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is for
getting on HF!!!! You have to do it!!! That means really figuring out
how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your
rig
properly, ect.

It can't be that hard; after all, hundreds of thousands of CBers
managed to get on 11 meters. Modern rigs don't require much "tuning"
and most newbies tend to buy pre-assembled dipoles or multiband
verticals. The rigs are plug and play with microphones included.

We had a pretty good license structure in the mid '60s. Most folks
started with a (non-renewable) Novice ticket with very limited
privileges to get their feet wet. Then they upgraded to General with
full amateur privileges.

That wasn't good enough for ARRL. They insisted we needed more license
classes and more exams (incentive licensing). FCC bought into it, and
we all had to upgrade or lose privileges. Now, ARRL is cheapening the
value of those higher class licenses they insisted we get.

I figure that in about five years we'll have only one license class,
and that it will require only a single simple multiple-choice exam.
Will that re-energize ham radio? I doubt it.

Art Harris N2AH

I forsee this latest debacle of the ARRL will result in further damage to
Amateur Radio. Much worse than the failed and flawed 'Incentive licensing'
garbage of the late 1960s.

Dan/W4NTI