In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Yes, new hams may make some operating errors and they may need
a little coaching and immersion in the "culture" of ham radio to get to
the point where they sound experienced. We ALL made such mistakes



I didn't.

Sure....

That's right.

Even the best operators made errors when they first got on.

How do you know?

I don't mean malicious intent errors, but the traditional way of IDing and
such. "N2EY, WA2ISE and the group, 73s."

Was that meant to be an example of how I would operate? Never happened. One of
the first operating rules I learned was that the transmitting station gives
his/her own call last. Learned that long before I was a ham.

What you will hear from me would be

"WA2ISE and the group, this is N2EY"

although usually on sign-off I'll give the call of everyone in the group.

Also things like not tying up a contest op to get his call right as I
can listen to subsequent other contacts to get his call right.

That's sloppy operating. Suppose the station you just work QSYs or experiences
equipment failure right after your QSO? Then he thinks he worked you and knows
your call, but you don't know his, and so didn't work him. And if the
logcheckers catch it, you can cost him a QSO and maybe even a multiplier.

The time to get the info of a contest station who's running them is during the
QSO or *before*.

when we first got on the air - learning by doing is the best way to learn.
Not for everything.

Well , this ain't rocket science, and botching the first few contacts
doesn't create a hazardous condition. Not like learning to fly 747s.

The problem is that too many folks want to just wing it rather than taking
a little time to learn the right way. Or worse, they think it doesn't matter
what the right way is.

73 de Jim, N2EY

extra credit trivia question: where does the term "wing it" come from? Hint:
Has nothing to do with aviation.

If you want to stop this, join the ARRL and start a recall of all of
the current directors and vice directors.


"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message news:NuzQb.59621$zs4.22815@fed1read01...
And the ARRL is the only game in town -- we might NOT have the bands and
privileges we do without them.

I am with the poster who sed:

-- I have a completely different opinion!

Join the ARRL today! \

73 From The Wilderness Keyboard

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...

Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people
coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even
more unbalanced viewpoint.

Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old
hams to drop out.

"William" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...

Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new
people
coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an
even
more unbalanced viewpoint.

Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old
hams to drop out.

Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed.
The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience
to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that
have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

William wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...


Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people
coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even
more unbalanced viewpoint.


Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old
hams to drop out.


HA! Good one!

This is Brian, right?

- Mike KB3EIA -

On 25 Jan 2004 20:30:20 GMT, (N2EY) wrote:

extra credit trivia question: where does the term "wing it" come from? Hint:
Has nothing to do with aviation.

From the theatre, where impromptu performances were given by actors
who received prompts from the wings.

73, leo

I am with the poster who sed:

-- I have a completely different opinion!

Join the ARRL today! \

73 From The Wilderness Keyboard



I won't join the ARRL because full membership now requires a frontal
lobotomy. If you see your section manager or Division director at a meeting
or Hamfest, ask them how their surgury went, then slap the **** out of them
for me.

Screw'em

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
William wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...


Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people
coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even
more unbalanced viewpoint.


Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old
hams to drop out.


HA! Good one!

This is Brian, right?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Yup. Got tired of my real email account getting loaded with spam.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...
"William" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...

Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new
people
coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an
even
more unbalanced viewpoint.

Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old
hams to drop out.

Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed.
The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience
to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that
have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Here we go again with the demographics. The ARS is a geriatric service.

Too bad they took the birth date out of the database.

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

The ham bands have *not*
"become sounding like CB over the last 17 years" -

Not the CW/digital subbands, anyway. The 'phone bands are another story...

I haven't seen it ... and you know I don't choose to operate CW.
YMMV ... but I doubt it's the broad reality.

there have always
been a few bad apples - MANY of them OTs who passed the 20 wpm
Morse test and believe they are some sort of gods.

SOME of them, anyway.

But ALL of them passed the written tests, too.

So? I think it's a given that NO test filters out lids ... no way to fix
that.
Bad behavior is an enforcement issue, not something that can be dealt
with "up front" through licensing requirements.

[snip]

So tell us what you think of the ARRL proposal, Carl. We already know
about the
code test, so let's just skip that part.

OK, we agree that NCI will not support keeping Morse tests for ANY class of
license.

What do you think of:

My *personal* views, NOT necessarily "NCI policy" ...

1) the "NewNovice" idea? (easy entry-level exam, limited power, more HF
modes
and spectrum, less VHF/UHF)

Good idea ... we need to give newcomers a better taste of all of ham radio.
Power
restrictions make sense, and I don't see a big enforcement issue - the
Novice
license had power restrictions and I don't believe that ever presented a
real problem.

2) closing Tech to new issues?

OK by me, given a more sensible beginner class license as proposed.

3) free upgrades for Techs and Tech Pluses to General?

I was initially against this idea, thinking that taking the additional
written
element should be a requirement. However, I've read Ed Hare's excellent
*personal, not ARRL policy* comments on this from eham, and find that
they make sense to me - a compelling case for a "one-shot adjustment" to
make things clean in a way that nobody loses anything.

4) free upgrades for Advanceds to Extra?

As #3 above ... Ed's argument are pretty persuasive if you think them
through with an open mind. The tests between Tech/General and
Advanced/Extra are *really* not ALL that different ...

5) widening of some of the 'phone image subbands?

While I've stated many times that I would not support wholesale
proliferation of SSB/SSTV to the detriment of CW/digital modes,
the "refarming" of the (largely unused) "Novice bands" as proposed,
is modest and I can tolerate it ... if it doesn't happen, the proposal
can be tweaked a bit to allow for the increased access to HF for
the "new Novices".

I say 1) and 2) are good ideas. The rest are bad ideas.

What say you?

As I said above. Note again, these are my *personal* views after
considering Ed's excellent and persuasive explaination of why he
supports the proposal (of course, Ed knows that I will NOT support
keeping code testing for Extra).

73,
Carl - wk3c