Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Newcomers with any gumption can have some HF if they choose to pass the
code.

Hoops. Jump through the hoops like good little doggies. Arf, arf.

You seem to have a problem passing exams required of others. No matter
and certainly no loss.

As a newcomer to HF 51 years ago, I got on HF without needing one bit
of morse code knowledge, skill, or anything else.

When and if you pass an amateur exam, you can be a newcomer to amateur
radio. Right now, if it is HF you want, you'll still have to climb that
5 wpm mountain.

HF propagation hasn't changed since then. Solar cycles are still cycling.

That's right. I've enjoyed those cycles immensely.

The only difference is that hams have solid-state toys now instead of
glass, metal, and vacuum active devices. Some still insist on ON-OFF
keying of their carriers, even with sophisticated radios that can do much
more.

My solid state toy drives a pair of vacuum active devices. I'll use
whichever mode I desire as a radio amateur. You may do as you can.

I generally choose "on-off" keying rather than the more abrupt "ON-OFF".

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

No one commented on my proposal that I made earlier in the week. Perhaps
because it was hidden away in another thread (which I changed), or
perhaps it was stupid beyond belief.

I'll post it again in hopes of some feedback.

Did the FCC reject it?

Ahem...this group, unbeknownst to them, doesn't make any regulations!

Only demands.

You don't make regulations. You've commented to the FCC. Did you
consider you comments as DEMANDS? You've commented here. Do you
consider your comments as DEMANDS? Did the FCC reject your views? They
certainly haven't been met with wild cheers here.

Especially those about love, honor, and obeying morse code tradition.

Forever.

What has any of that to do with you? You aren't involved. You're a
bystander.

Dave K8MN

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:

The present system is not "broken" It doesn't need fixed. It is what it
is, and is just one of those things that grew up over the years.

I think it needs a bit of tweaking, but not a fullscale makeover as some
seem to think.

Agreed! Most proposals I have seen have been either too radical or too
complicated.

And tick off too many people.

When
Morse code was ascendant, there was a need for multiple license classes,
since Morse is one of those skills that takes time to hone, and it made
sense then to have a rank beginner level, and work up from there.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Morse code was ascendant" - can you explain
a bit more?

At one time, if you were going to be a Ham, you were almost certain to
be using Morse CW as a major part of your Operating activities.

That was a long long time ago, Mike.

You can go back to the late 1940s or further and read histories of hams who got
their
Class B or C tickets and promptly went on 'phone from the getgo. Some were on
VHF/UHF,
some on 10-11 meters. Many quickly went for their Class A so they could do 75
and 20
'phone as well. (There was a one-year wait for Class A, but it required the
same 13 wpm code test).

There used to be a requirement that a ham actually operate Morse for a certain
amount of time in the months before renewing, but that was changed to simply
"operating" (any mode) about 1948 and eventually dropped altogether. And
"operating" could theoretically consist of just calling CQ...

There
was a time when the two major alternatives were AM or CW.

Yep - but except as noted above, there was no requirement to use either. And
while CW equipment gets the most out of the simplest, AM can be pretty simple
too. For example, back in the old 5 and 2-1/2 meter days, 3 tube "transceivers"
were popular with hams. These consisted of a 3 tube rig: one tube functioned as
a superregenerative detector on receive, and a modulated oscillator on
transmit. The other 2 tubes were a 2 stage aduio amplifier, used as the audio
chain on receive and the modulator on transmit. With a dynamotor or vibrapack,
could be used mobile, and with a decent antenna, one could work all over a
metro area and then some.

AM on HF cost more than an equivalent CW rig, of course, but with warsurplus
parts and low power the difference wasn't prohibitive for many hams,
particularly if they were satisfied with low power.

I would say that *any* knowledge or skill requires time to develop, whether
it's theory knowledge,
practical radio knowhow or Morse skills. Thus, there will still be a need
for several license classes.
I think there should be more levels than three, but FCC's action in 1999
makes it clear that's
probably a lost cause. So three classes it is:

One that's easy to get so that people can get started without having to
learn
everything in one go
One that gives full privileges and requires some serious knowledge
One intermediate step so that it's not a huge jump.

This is the system we have however, and we tinker with it at our own
peril. We do not want to remove privileges, nor do we want to increase
privileges without any testing. The reduction issue seems to have been
proven by the Incentive licensing problem in the 60's, and giving away
free upgrades will only serve to anger people in the other direction.


I agree 100%! Indeed, there is still criticism of the IL plan 36 years
after it
was put in place, and in many places from people who did not become hams
until long
after it was in effect!

One of these days I might come to the conclusion that there are a lot
of cranky hams out there! ;^)

Only on the internet.

It is a foolish system that angers people on purpose. You don't anger
those who are your friends, you anger your enemies.

Better yet, you render your enemies ineffective. But most of all you don't
anger your friends unnecessarily.

To have a Morse code test for entry into HF is not going to happen, and
to have a Morse code test for Amateur Extra doesn't make sense, given
that the Extra is the highest level license, and Morse code was at one
time required for the lowest level, Novice. There is a big disconnect
there.

I disagree!

Given the popularity of Morse code in amateur radio, it makes no sense to
not
have it be a part of the testing for a license. Imagine if there were no
questions on SSB
in the tests - would that make sense?

In the testing, yes, but I think a Fail Element 1 = no license is simply
a dog that isn't going to hunt.

No dog will hunt if nobody even asks it to. If we simply roll over and play
dead,
who can blame FCC if they simply drop Element 1?

The Morse Code test has been portrayed as the boogieman, as if it is the
source
of all of amateur radio's problems. Yet there is no proof of these claims.

It isn't the boogieman!

Exactly.

That's just an excuse for lack of effort (the
same thing Larry accuses me of!) We've already seen that some prime
agitators for elimination of Element one are now taking the next step
and supporting a radical easing of the writtens.

And just as I predicted, they're using the same arguments used against the code
test.

Nothing is easy enough. Remember what I said about the direction of the

tide some months back? I haven't seen anything to suggest I was wrong.

Nor I. But that doesn't mean we have to simply accept it. I don't.

I therefore propose a system that is quite like what we have now.
Technician, General, and Amateur Extra. Privileges the same.

This means all Techs have VHF/UHF only?

Yup. And it's a good idea. Gives those that might want to be on HF some
incentive, and they neither gain or lose privileges. Did everyone know
that there are Technicians out there that are perfectly happy with what
they have now?

Sure - been that way since 1951.

The two orphan classes, Tech plus and Advanced, will remain where they
are, with privileges staying the same.

What about Novice?

Oops, forgot the Novices. Yeah, they would retain the privileges they
have now. I really don't know how many people this will really affect.
Probably not too many active Novices any more.

There are more now than when I was one...

After the changeover, the new testing regimen will be:

Technician: heavy on RF safety, Light on electronics theory. Some
questions related to the VHF and UHF where the tech's will largely
operate The technician is considered a preparatory license, and will
give a good base of how to get on the air without frying yourself in the
process.

Perhaps, but what that does is to funnel newcomers into VHF/UHF rather than
HF.
And since VHF/UHF gear tends to be harder to homebrew and more complex than
HF
equipment, it tends to funnel newcomers to manufactured equipment. Also,
since there is
relatively little use of Morse Code for casual operating on VHF/UHF, it
tends to funnel newcomers
to FM voice operation.

Remember they will still have 6 meter operation available to them.

Sure - but how often does 6 open up when the spots are down? How easy is it to
build a 6 meter rig from scratch? How much routine, slow CW ragchewing is there
on 6?

But
I still like this because it is an incentive to upgrade. And with no
Element 1, what is the impedance to upgrading?

The written!

My point in the "funnel" stuff is that many people are heavily influenced by
first impressions. If they see hamshacks full of gear Made In Japan, that's
"normal" to them. If they think of ham radio as being local voice stuff using
FM, that's "normal". If they think of antennas as being little aluminum
things...you get the idea.

But if they start out with a wider range of choices...

General: General test will scale back on the RF safety, and replace it
with more theory. Antenna questions and operating procedures. The never
entertaining band edge questions will get a few more questions.

Needs to have some serious HF centric stuff, though.

Good point. Consider it added.

Done

Extra: more in depth treatment of theory. No band edge or safety
questions, at this point, if you don't know safety, you've already fried
your mind. questions demonstrating knowledge of different modes.

The only controversial part of my proposal is that there would be a 2
year wait between General and Extra. I could be persuaded to drop that
pretty easily!

I'd say the experience requirements should be included.

Yippee! Got one person on board with that one! I really do think it's a

good idea, and it doesn't unduly punish anyone.

Some will say it does on the following grounds:

1) New ham has to attend at least 2 VE sessions. Can't get the Extra "right out
of the box". More work for ham and VEs

2) 2 years wait doesn't mean 2 years experience. License could just sit in a
drawer for 2 years.

3) Vanity calls

4) Perceived as a raising of requirements - hasn't been an experience
requirement since the mid 1970s.

Bands and sub bands:

At this point, the bands will remain the same. Bandplan adjustments
will be made. Novice sections will remain, and will be considered a
"practice ground" for those who want to learn Morse code. note: this may
actually be a way to kick start Morse code use.

I don't see the need for that. Better to open up some of the lower part of
the
bands for newcomers to use Morse.

The natural tendency is for Morse to be at the bottom of the band, data in
the
middle, and 'phone at the top. Rather than fight that trend, the newcomer
segments should reinforce it.

The Novice subbands were originally put in the middle of their bands in a
misguided effort to keep them from straying outside the band edges. Since
Novices were originally required to use crystal control, this made little
sense even in 1951.

This was one of the worst features of the old Novice. None of the Novice slots
were harmonically related, so you needed a different set of xtals for each
band. Indeed, the harmonics of the old 80 and 40 meter Novice segments were
completely outside the ham bands (except 10 meters) Woe to the Novice who
forgot and left a 40 meter rock in the rig and shifted to 15, or left an 80
meter xtal and shifted to 40! the rig would tune up just fine but be out of
band!

So there you have it. Here is a plan that shouldn't p**s anyone off
that isn't *already* mad about something, and as far as I can see, it's
major disadvantage is that it isn't glamorous or exciting.

Is it the "ideal" plan?* Heck no! But it accomplishes moving past the
Morse code issue with a minimum of disruption, and has the side benefit
that we know it will work.

Comments?

I agree that massive changes and giveaways are a bad idea.

However, I think that one of the problems today is that the entry-level
license
is too VHF/UHF/voice/applicane operator-centric.
The entry level license should offer a wide selection of bands and modes,
rather than what we have now where newcomers get all of VHF/UHF but no HF.

I'm still big on the idea of a person having a good reason to upgrade.

That reason should be things like more power and more spectrum. Not HF vs.
VHF/UHF.

This does it, and allows a real entry level opportunity for people, yet
allows a niche for those who are happy to stay there. And there will be
plenty of people that will be happy to stay there.

Without a real reason to upgrade, I can't really support a three class
system. I don't think that there are enough different privileges to
offer between three classes, unless you make one of the privileges HF
access.

See my three class idea of some posts back.

And I can't really support power limits as a incentive to upgrade. It's

a forced distinction (keeping in mind that all distinctions are
arbitrary at some level) that I do not find acceptable.

Why not? The old Novice had a power limit of only 75 watts input. My first rig
(the Southgate Type 1) ran 10-15 watts input on 80, and would light a Christmas
tree bulb to full brilliance when tuned up right. Yet I made lots of QSOs and
had lots of fun.

RF safety and safety around high voltages is of critical importance for

amateurs. The RF field calculations are one thing, but to me even more
important is the potential for RF burns and B+ shocks.

All the more reason for power level as an incentive.

The power supply for the Type 1 was the cut-down chassis of an old Philco TV
set. 250 watt power transformer, 5U4 rectifier, big capacitors and choke. I had
enough sense at 13 not to get zapped.

The Technician is exposed to these dangers at events such as Field day
or contesting with other hams - I know I was.

For me the big danger was falling out of trees while putting up antennas. Never
did, though.

And while a Unlicensed person may be operating the equipment too, they
are much more likely to be afraid to touch anything but the PTT switch.
The Technician will be more likely to be careless through familiarity.

Again - all the more reason to have power level as an incentive.

I cannot in good conscience support a testing regimen that does not
test extensively for safety at the base level. And since the newly
minted Ham would have the knowledge of High-power levels and high
voltage, to limit them to low power would be arbitrary and punitive.

There's no test for working on 110/220 house current, which will easily kill
you stone cold dead.

So that is my rationale for a system that has three classes, HF access
for two of them, and doesn't penalize or overly promote anyone.

Which is pretty close to what we have now!

73 de Jim, N2EY