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#11
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William wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ... Bill Sohl wrote: Proposed entry level transmitter power is proposed to be 100 watts when the operation takes place below 24 MHz; 50 watts above. This is the same as the ARRL proposal. I still want to see the people (tech's specifically) that have been harmed by RF. It makes sense in light of the present rf hazard calcs that we have to perform. But I've not seen anyone claimed to have been harmed by rf. I was nailed by maybe 50 watts of RF one time on the tip of my finger. I was tuning up a MFJ tuner, and there was a problem somewhere. The metal band on the tuner apparently capacitively coupled me to the tuning cap and shazam! Darned if RF burns don't hurt a LOT. I think that NCVEC and ARRL and others are missing the boat here. With the likely disappearance of Morse as a requirement, they are simply proposing *another* caste system, in which there is an elite, and an underclass ghetto of people with what to me seem to be radically reduced privileges. I don't have anything against different levels, but this seems like too much discrimination. - Mike KB3EIA - |
#12
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Now that the element 1 requirement is likely to go away, why do NCVEC,
ARRL, and even Hans' proposals simply set up a new caste system? There is nothing wrong with levels of certification, but they should make some sense. The only logical argument that I can accept for the punitive measures of power limitations and the ridiculous restrictions on homebrewing and the "final voltage restrictions for the lowest class of operation is just the creation of another group of "great unwashed" We DON'T learn do we? - Mike KB3EIA - |
#13
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#14
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"Hambone the Magnificent" wrote in
groups.com: "N2EY" wrote in message ... (quoting the NCVEC proposal) In addition, the NCVEC proposed mandatory low voltage to the final transmitter amplifier stage What about the 110 AC line? Good glub OM, where did you get your technical facts? 110 VAC was the standard line voltage in 1927! Today the standard is 125 VAC. Update your notes. and that only commercially manufactured transmitters be used by Communicator Class licensees. Might as well call it "Appliance Class" and be done with it. Sour grapes. Poo-Poohs. Cry me a river. Same shi+ different day. Blah Blah Blah. You old ham farts think everyone should know code just because YOU had to learn it 40+ Years ago in a smoke filled room. OyVey Bitch-****-and-Moan.....(playing my violin) Communicator Class licensees must pass a simple 20 question multiple-choice written exam and will be required to obtain, read and certify their understanding of the Part 97 rules. This is the worst part. We must fight this like the plague. What it *really" means is that there will be *no* rules and regs questions on the 20 question test! How do you know that? You don't even know what the present day standard Line Voltage is! The old Novice I took was 20 questions, and we could homebrew. Which I did from Day One. If a 13 year old kid with books for Elmers could safely build transmitters in the hollowstate era, why all these additional limits today? That was THEN - this is NOW. I got my licence in 1969 btw and my first xmitter was a DX-60B (which I built from a kit) and a Drake 2B. Would I burden today's hams to do the same? No way. It's a different era. As someone said at a Bond Traders Luncheon I was at 2 Months ago: "Glue-ing feathers to your ass DOES NOT make you a rooster in the hen house". NCVEC's proposal makes the ARRL one look good. Which isn't saying much... I'll give you that one. The ARRL is trying to backpeddle big time as the hobby is dying on the vine with ever month of the full-page listings of SK's. They should have been doing this kind of restructuring 20 Years ago!! It's probably too late now. EXAMPLE: Plunk a teenager in front of a new Yaesu HF station and a 2 gHz Pentium w/DSL, DVD, CD burner and a Kazaa account and *try to guess* which one he'll want to play with.....(grin) It's 120v actually, not 125, and the International IEC standards are 115v/60Hz and 230v/50Hz |
#15
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Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Now that the element 1 requirement is likely to go away, why do NCVEC, ARRL, and even Hans' proposals simply set up a new caste system? There is nothing wrong with levels of certification, but they should make some sense. The only logical argument that I can accept for the punitive measures of power limitations and the ridiculous restrictions on homebrewing and the "final voltage restrictions for the lowest class of operation is just the creation of another group of "great unwashed" We DON'T learn do we? - Mike KB3EIA - I can hear Larry now, "I'm a Superior Ham because I have higher voltage finals..." Or Bruce, "Know Ham = Know Voltage." |
#16
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In article , Mike Coslo writes:
I think that NCVEC and ARRL and others are missing the boat here. With the likely disappearance of Morse as a requirement, they are simply proposing *another* caste system, in which there is an elite, and an underclass ghetto of people with what to me seem to be radically reduced privileges. I don't have anything against different levels, but this seems like too much discrimination. It doesn't sit well with you that you are cast with the pro-code caste? Some hams NEED a caste system just to prove they are "better" than others, thus fulfilling a self-deficiency. For a very long time morse code ability was the caste marker, having no reasonable value except for some to brag that they were "better" than no-coders. Tsk, tsk, tsk...all the pro-coders beginning to cry and whine...? LHA / WMD |
#17
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In article , Mike Coslo writes:
N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: That was for a Novice! Good questions! And actually not all that hard. Sounds like an enjoyable test to take. Easy to say when you've taken all your tests and never have to take another test (if you renew within time bounds). Put yourself in the newcomer's place and look at it from their vantage point -and- that of the FCC. But, I don't think you will. You will, like way too many others, look at it from your own personal viewpoint and experience and desires and by default try to make all newcomers think as you do. You can't freeze testing as it was in 1976...or 1986, 1966, 1956, 1946, or 1936. The overall environment is constantly changing even if your personal activities isn't changing. LHA / WMD |
#18
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![]() "Hambone the Magnificent" wrote in message groups.com... "N2EY" wrote in message ... (quoting the NCVEC proposal) In addition, the NCVEC proposed mandatory low voltage to the final transmitter amplifier stage What about the 110 AC line? Good glub OM, where did you get your technical facts? 110 VAC was the standard line voltage in 1927! Today the standard is 125 VAC. Update your notes. and that only commercially manufactured transmitters be used by Communicator Class licensees. Might as well call it "Appliance Class" and be done with it. Sour grapes. Poo-Poohs. Cry me a river. Same shi+ different day. Blah Blah Blah. You old ham farts think everyone should know code just because YOU had to learn it 40+ Years ago in a smoke filled room. OyVey Bitch-****-and-Moan.....(playing my violin) Communicator Class licensees must pass a simple 20 question multiple-choice written exam and will be required to obtain, read and certify their understanding of the Part 97 rules. This is the worst part. We must fight this like the plague. What it *really" means is that there will be *no* rules and regs questions on the 20 question test! How do you know that? You don't even know what the present day standard Line Voltage is! The old Novice I took was 20 questions, and we could homebrew. Which I did from Day One. If a 13 year old kid with books for Elmers could safely build transmitters in the hollowstate era, why all these additional limits today? That was THEN - this is NOW. I got my licence in 1969 btw and my first xmitter was a DX-60B (which I built from a kit) and a Drake 2B. Would I burden today's hams to do the same? No way. It's a different era. But why forbid them from experiencing such an activity?? That makes no sense in light of the basis and purpose of amateur radio as stated in the current Part 97. They should not be required to homebrew nor should they be prevented from home brewing. As someone said at a Bond Traders Luncheon I was at 2 Months ago: "Glue-ing feathers to your ass DOES NOT make you a rooster in the hen house". NCVEC's proposal makes the ARRL one look good. Which isn't saying much... I'll give you that one. The ARRL is trying to backpeddle big time as the hobby is dying on the vine with ever month of the full-page listings of SK's. They should have been doing this kind of restructuring 20 Years ago!! It's probably too late now. EXAMPLE: Plunk a teenager in front of a new Yaesu HF station and a 2 gHz Pentium w/DSL, DVD, CD burner and a Kazaa account and *try to guess* which one he'll want to play with.....(grin) The problem is NOT in the licensing structure. There is no structure that will dramatically increase the number of amateur radio operators, not even a no test license. The non-licensed services have proven that. Today CB activity is way down. It is so low that there are now people who not only have not heard of ham radio, they haven't even heard of CB! The actual problem is stems from several elements. 1) Most people outside of amateur radio have never heard of it. So even if they might be inclined to pursue this hobby, they will never be involved. 2) Amateur radio, as with any specialized activity, is only going to appeal to a limited number of people in the first place. 3) There is a greater multitude of hobbies and activities available today than ever before. People have to make choices on how to spend their time and money. I've seen no evidence of ham radio "dying on the vine". The listing of SK's has shown no quantum leap. The number of new licensees exceeds the number of licenses expiring. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#19
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In article , Mike Coslo writes:
N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: In addition, the NCVEC proposed mandatory low voltage to the final transmitter amplifier stage How odd! Are the newbies going to not be allowed to use antennas like Magloops? Or dipoles? Or antenna tuners? Or line-powered power supplies? These people have it SO WRONG! Presumably thay are admitting that there are safety issues involved, which there are. Then teach the newbies safety, don't avoid the issue, teach them Safety!! There's a logical inconsistency in this requirement. The purpose of safety questions in the written test is not so much to protect an amateur from the consequences of his/her own ignorance as to protect *others*. Sure. And there is no logical argument that can convince me that safety shouldn't be practiced from the start. It doesn't have to be safety officer level, but it has to be there, and it has to be there from the start. I agree 100%. Even back in my Novice days there were safety questions on the test. I find that the pussyfooting around safety, where these proposals to limit power are made, is verging on criminal negligence. Consider this: In most areas that I know of, a homeowner can work on his/her electrical wiring without a license or test of any kind. Same for plumbing. Just can't do it to somebody else's house as a "professional" - meaning for money. So a Communicator could legally wire or re-wire his/her entire house, but could not legally *operate* a TS-520. Or even a solid-state rig with 48 volt finals....because he/she might hurt themselves! That's why they shouldn't be allowed to have electrical tools! ;^) HAW! But it just points out how ridiculous that part of the NCVEC proposal really is. Here's two mo 1) Audiophiles and radio restorers build and work on all sorts of high-voltage electronics without any test. Why is a ham transmitter so dangerous if it has more than 30 volts, but not a ham receiver or a stereo amplifier? 2) Low voltage is no guarantee of safety. A 100 watt transceiver powered by 13.8 volts will typically require 20 A or more to transmit full power. 35 A and 50 A supplies are common. Don't get your rig across those terminals... and that only commercially manufactured transmitters be used by Communicator Class licensees. This is illogical! What purpose would forcing an amateur to use a commercially built product be? 1) To sell more commercially built products (read the "21st Century" paper - it talks about how we need more hams or the ham equipment manufacturers will close up shop). 2) To get new hams in the habit of buying, not building 3) To eliminate even more theory from the written test zzzzzzzzzz...... now *that* sounds like a much fun as a stick in the eye. It's what NCVEC is trying to sell. Some folks here seem to be buying it. I don't. Some of the main Basis and Purposes of the ARS are technical education, experimentation, and related stuff. Limiting *any* class of ham license to manufactured gear and so many final volts directly contradicts those B&P. The main reason I am in Amateur radio at all is for the homebrewing and restoring of radio equipment. More to the point: How many hams do we lose each year to electrocution from their transmitters? How many hams cause serious interference problems with their home-brew or restored rigs? I propose an addition to the proposal in which Hams of all classes must drink only Pepsi or Coke, whichever company donates more to the BPL defense fund. The Dr. Pepper contingent will have a fit! If they provide enough money, then maybe they will be the one! I prefer Sprite or 7Up, myself. Better yet, a Yuengling Black & Tan or a Guiness Stout. The communicators should also not be allowed to own a soldering iron or electronic tools This will keep them out of their commercially built transcievers, and keep them safe from booboo's that they might get from foolishly messing with electronics, where they might get shocked or something But they would legally be allowed to build power supplies for their commercially built rigs.... Right! we'll have to work on that! The goal is no booboo's. We have to protect the new hams from themselves. So I would amend the proposal to not allow Communicator's to use ANY voltages over 48 volts. No power tools, no vacuum cleaners..oh wait, what about the CRT in the computer monitor? Or the ATX power supply in the computer! Oh the humanity! Maybe they should wear aluminum foil hats too? Seriously, I think such rules insult those we are trying to attract. Communicator Class licensees must pass a simple 20 question multiple-choice written exam and will be required to obtain, read and certify their understanding of the Part 97 rules. The VECs Question Pool Committee feels that it is impossible to cover the FCC rules in what would be a relatively few questions. The ARRL proposed 25 examination questions. Cannot a person of even limited intelligence take a test of more than 25 questions? I took bigger tests in grade school. Me too. You should see the tests they give second-graders here. The old Novice test was originally 20 questions, then 25, then 30. Most of the added questions were concerned with safety and the expanded privileges. Novices are allowed to homebrew anything they can legally use on the air. I have always though that having more questions on a test made the test easier! If you have a twenty question test, you don't have to miss many to get a failing grade. That's one way to look at it. What this is doing is alarmingly like the citizens band radio I bought in I think the late 70's or early 80's. At this point, the F.C.C. was still lamely trying to have some kind of callsign and "rules". I "had" to read a little pamphlet, and assign myself a callsign by some strange method that I forget at the moment. Even had places for me to sign. Where do you think NCVEC got the idea about the rules? But didn't learn much else. Maybe they should check the aftermath of that example. Maybe it's what they want! If a person can certifiy that they have read and understand part 97, there is no reason at all that they shouldn't just say they read a book about the whole process and sign for that. BINGO! Testing would certainly be easier! One wonders what would be left to test! And here's the bottom line: If there is *anything* that *must* be part of testing for a ham license of *any* class, it's safety and the rules and regulations. No exceptions, no signed statements. What you are seeing is exactly what I predicted about the anticodetest arguments being used against the written test. Check this out: From the 1976 ARRL License Manual: NOVICE (1976) Study Question #31: Draw a schematic diagram of a circuit having the following components: (a) battery with internal resistance, (b) resistive load, (c) voltmeter, (d) ammeter. Study Question #32: From the values indicated by the meters in the above circuit, how can the value of the resistive load be determined? How can the power consumed by the load be determined? Study Question #33: In the above circuit, what must the value of the resistive load be in order for the maximum power to be delivered from the battery? Study Question #34: Draw the schematic diagram of an RF power amplifier circuit having the following components: (a) triode vacuum tube, (b) pi-network output tank, (c) high voltage source, (d) plate-current meter, (e) plate-voltage meter, (f) rf chokes, (g) bypass capacitors, coupling capacitor. Study Question #35: What is the proper tune-up procedure for the above circuit? The actual exam was multiple choice, and would show a schematic of the amplifier circuit - close, but not exactly like the one shown inthe license manual - and had 5 of the components labelled "a" thru "e". The question would be something like, "which is the coupling capacitor?" "which is an rf chokes?" "what is function of the capacitor labelled ''d' in the circuit above?" That was for a Novice! Good questions! And actually not all that hard. Not for you and not for me. Even when I was a 13 year old Novice-to-be those questions were not "hard". Some folks here are obviously stumped by them, though.. Sounds like an enjoyable test to take. Challenge is the word I'd use. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
#20
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N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: In addition, the NCVEC proposed mandatory low voltage to the final transmitter amplifier stage How odd! Are the newbies going to not be allowed to use antennas like Magloops? Or dipoles? Or antenna tuners? Or line-powered power supplies? These people have it SO WRONG! Presumably thay are admitting that there are safety issues involved, which there are. Then teach the newbies safety, don't avoid the issue, teach them Safety!! There's a logical inconsistency in this requirement. The purpose of safety questions in the written test is not so much to protect an amateur from the consequences of his/her own ignorance as to protect *others*. Sure. And there is no logical argument that can convince me that safety shouldn't be practiced from the start. It doesn't have to be safety officer level, but it has to be there, and it has to be there from the start. I agree 100%. Even back in my Novice days there were safety questions on the test. I find that the pussyfooting around safety, where these proposals to limit power are made, is verging on criminal negligence. Consider this: In most areas that I know of, a homeowner can work on his/her electrical wiring without a license or test of any kind. Same for plumbing. Just can't do it to somebody else's house as a "professional" - meaning for money. So a Communicator could legally wire or re-wire his/her entire house, but could not legally *operate* a TS-520. Or even a solid-state rig with 48 volt finals....because he/she might hurt themselves! That's why they shouldn't be allowed to have electrical tools! ;^) HAW! But it just points out how ridiculous that part of the NCVEC proposal really is. Here's two mo 1) Audiophiles and radio restorers build and work on all sorts of high-voltage electronics without any test. Why is a ham transmitter so dangerous if it has more than 30 volts, but not a ham receiver or a stereo amplifier? 2) Low voltage is no guarantee of safety. A 100 watt transceiver powered by 13.8 volts will typically require 20 A or more to transmit full power. 35 A and 50 A supplies are common. Don't get your rig across those terminals... I know what you mean. One of my jobs in the deep past involved working around 5 Volt power supplies. Problem was they were many hundreds of amps! I couldn't wear my wedding ring or any jewelry, and they bought me a pair of non-conductive glasses. No metal belt buckles, etc. and that only commercially manufactured transmitters be used by Communicator Class licensees. This is illogical! What purpose would forcing an amateur to use a commercially built product be? 1) To sell more commercially built products (read the "21st Century" paper - it talks about how we need more hams or the ham equipment manufacturers will close up shop). 2) To get new hams in the habit of buying, not building 3) To eliminate even more theory from the written test zzzzzzzzzz...... now *that* sounds like a much fun as a stick in the eye. It's what NCVEC is trying to sell. Some folks here seem to be buying it. I don't. Some of the main Basis and Purposes of the ARS are technical education, experimentation, and related stuff. Limiting *any* class of ham license to manufactured gear and so many final volts directly contradicts those B&P. Agreed! The main reason I am in Amateur radio at all is for the homebrewing and restoring of radio equipment. More to the point: How many hams do we lose each year to electrocution from their transmitters? How many hams cause serious interference problems with their home-brew or restored rigs? I propose an addition to the proposal in which Hams of all classes must drink only Pepsi or Coke, whichever company donates more to the BPL defense fund. The Dr. Pepper contingent will have a fit! If they provide enough money, then maybe they will be the one! I prefer Sprite or 7Up, myself. Better yet, a Yuengling Black & Tan or a Guiness Stout. I believe that is *2* Guiness Stout's! For some reason you're supposed to have 2. I won't argue! Happy St Paddy's day BTW The communicators should also not be allowed to own a soldering iron or electronic tools This will keep them out of their commercially built transcievers, and keep them safe from booboo's that they might get from foolishly messing with electronics, where they might get shocked or something But they would legally be allowed to build power supplies for their commercially built rigs.... Right! we'll have to work on that! The goal is no booboo's. We have to protect the new hams from themselves. So I would amend the proposal to not allow Communicator's to use ANY voltages over 48 volts. No power tools, no vacuum cleaners..oh wait, what about the CRT in the computer monitor? Or the ATX power supply in the computer! Oh the humanity! Maybe they should wear aluminum foil hats too? Seriously, I think such rules insult those we are trying to attract. Not that we're arguing, but I'll give you Game, Set, and Match on that comment. Communicator Class licensees must pass a simple 20 question multiple-choice written exam and will be required to obtain, read and certify their understanding of the Part 97 rules. The VECs Question Pool Committee feels that it is impossible to cover the FCC rules in what would be a relatively few questions. The ARRL proposed 25 examination questions. Cannot a person of even limited intelligence take a test of more than 25 questions? I took bigger tests in grade school. Me too. You should see the tests they give second-graders here. The old Novice test was originally 20 questions, then 25, then 30. Most of the added questions were concerned with safety and the expanded privileges. Novices are allowed to homebrew anything they can legally use on the air. I have always though that having more questions on a test made the test easier! If you have a twenty question test, you don't have to miss many to get a failing grade. That's one way to look at it. What this is doing is alarmingly like the citizens band radio I bought in I think the late 70's or early 80's. At this point, the F.C.C. was still lamely trying to have some kind of callsign and "rules". I "had" to read a little pamphlet, and assign myself a callsign by some strange method that I forget at the moment. Even had places for me to sign. Where do you think NCVEC got the idea about the rules? But didn't learn much else. Maybe they should check the aftermath of that example. Maybe it's what they want! rrrgh, (twitching a bit here) If a person can certifiy that they have read and understand part 97, there is no reason at all that they shouldn't just say they read a book about the whole process and sign for that. BINGO! Testing would certainly be easier! One wonders what would be left to test! And here's the bottom line: If there is *anything* that *must* be part of testing for a ham license of *any* class, it's safety and the rules and regulations. No exceptions, no signed statements. What you are seeing is exactly what I predicted about the anticodetest arguments being used against the written test. Yup! Remember, the tests cannot be simple enough for some people. Check this out: From the 1976 ARRL License Manual: NOVICE (1976) Study Question #31: Draw a schematic diagram of a circuit having the following components: (a) battery with internal resistance, (b) resistive load, (c) voltmeter, (d) ammeter. Study Question #32: From the values indicated by the meters in the above circuit, how can the value of the resistive load be determined? How can the power consumed by the load be determined? Study Question #33: In the above circuit, what must the value of the resistive load be in order for the maximum power to be delivered from the battery? Study Question #34: Draw the schematic diagram of an RF power amplifier circuit having the following components: (a) triode vacuum tube, (b) pi-network output tank, (c) high voltage source, (d) plate-current meter, (e) plate-voltage meter, (f) rf chokes, (g) bypass capacitors, coupling capacitor. Study Question #35: What is the proper tune-up procedure for the above circuit? The actual exam was multiple choice, and would show a schematic of the amplifier circuit - close, but not exactly like the one shown inthe license manual - and had 5 of the components labelled "a" thru "e". The question would be something like, "which is the coupling capacitor?" "which is an rf chokes?" "what is function of the capacitor labelled ''d' in the circuit above?" That was for a Novice! Good questions! And actually not all that hard. Not for you and not for me. Even when I was a 13 year old Novice-to-be those questions were not "hard". Some folks here are obviously stumped by them, though.. Sounds like an enjoyable test to take. Challenge is the word I'd use. I like a challenge! Some people do not. I think that one of the most damning things about the age that we live in is that somehow, some way, those who want no challenges are in their ascendancy. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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