"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

|
| As outlined by the ARRL, a "one time adjustment" seems the only
practical
| way to clean up the overly complicated license structure that had
evolved
| over the years.
|

It's instructive to note that ARRL and NCI, (not FCC) are characterizing
the license structure as "overly complicated". With only modest
changes, this structure has been extant since 1951, before the age of
computerized record keeping and modern database. How come it's suddenly
"overly complicated"?

Given enough time, they'll come around to my way of thinking. One
amateur radio service, one license.

bb

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ...
Once again, it would be irresponsible for the NCI Board of Directors to
ignore the wishes of the vast majority of our membership in favor of
honoring Hans' wishes - though we certainly did listen to and consider his
views, and some of the NCI Directors even had lengthily e-mail discussions
with him.

Thought-experiment:

Suppose the vast majority of your membership said they'd reconsidered.

Suppose they said that 5 wpm for Extra was OK, as proposed by ARRL.

Would NCI support that, or simply expel the heretics?

73 de de Jim, N2EY

"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

|
| As outlined by the ARRL, a "one time adjustment" seems the only
practical
| way to clean up the overly complicated license structure that had
evolved
| over the years.
|

It's instructive to note that ARRL and NCI, (not FCC) are characterizing
the license structure as "overly complicated".

Also NCVEC.

The ARRL proposal says it is "absolutely necessary" to eliminate
license classes that are not available to new issues (such as the
Advanced) anymore.
Why it is so "absolutely necessary" is not explained.

With only modest
changes, this structure has been extant since 1951, before the age of
computerized record keeping and modern database. How come it's suddenly
"overly complicated"?

Bingo!

The Advanced class was closed to new issues from the beginning of 1953
to some time in 1967. The FCC kept those folks on the paper database
for all those years, even though an Advanced carried no different
privileges than a General back then.

But suppose for the moment that it IS overly complicated and needs
reform... to use a term from another NCI Director, do we need to be
"hellbent" to do it in one swell foop? I recall a proposal by one
WA6VSE a few years back that would have transformed the structure from
it's present state into a 2-class structure in as little as 5 years,
with no free passes and with nobody being stripped of privileges. The
details escape me, but I'm sure we could Google it up and have a look.

Or if the administrative burden isn't really at FCC but at the VEC's
like ARRL and W5YI, well there's another proposal floating about which
would overnight limit their testing burden to just two classes. No
Morse test to give, and only two written tests. Again, not a soul would
get a free pass and not a soul would be stripped of any privilege they
now enjoy. You can view that proposal at http://tinyurl.com/wce9

What's it's RM-number? It looks better and better...

| And, as a number of experienced, yet realistic, hams have pointed out,
the
| amount and level of material in the 200-ish page "Now you're talking!"
study
| guide (and on the Tech test) is not all that different from the old
General
| that I took at the FCC's old Long Beach, CA office over 25 years ago.

We're not talking about 25-years ago. We're talking about today.

Yup.

And remember this fun fact: *anyone* who passed the old Technician
(before March 21, 1987) and can dicument it and now holds a Technician
(or passes the 35 question test for it) can get a no-additional-tests
upgrade to General. Just go to a VE session, present the
documentation, pay the fee and get the upgrade. Even a Tech license
that expired in 1956 is good for Element 1 and Element 3 credit.

Today an applicant needs to pass a single 35 question exam to acquire
a Technician license.
Today an applicant needs to pass a second 35 question exam (which
contains material not tested in the Technician exam) to acquire a
General license.

The ARRL proposal to waive the second examination for all todays
Technicains (about a third of a million) effectively states that todays
Technican exam is perfectly adequate for General class privileges. If
that is true, then ipso facto we can make the case that forevermore the
exam for General need be no more technically demanding than todays
fall-off-a-log-easy entry level Technician exam.

That's the discussion that I was admonished not to have some months
back.

Now you and Ed Hare at ARRL can spin-doctor all you wish, but reality
doesn't care what you believe.

Same argument goes for the Advanced.

73 de Jim, N2EY

This support, from people like Carl, who previously stood four-square
against any dillution of the technical requirements for amateur
licenses, is unfathomable even when masked by platitudes of his
"fiduciary duty", as though he were appointed to some "guardianship"
responsibility to the amateur

Karl cant be trusted, and his WORD has never been truthfull. I think Karl is on
some EGO TRIP. I think he really believes hes the SAVIOR of Ham Radio, when In
truth hes 1 of the many forces destroying it.

Given enough time, they'll come around to my way of thinking. One
amateur radio service, one license.

bb


Of course, that is the Real Motive, 1 License, 1 Test, maybe not even a TEST,
remember were all EQUAL, arent we?

Even a Tech license
that expired in 1956 is good for Element 1 and Element 3 credit.


Thought you would get lifetime credit for Element 1 only. At 5WPM. If
you took and passed 13 or 20 and didn't do 5 I heard that you would not
get credit for Element 1.

I took the modern tests, from Technician to Extra.

Technician October 1999
General June 2001
Extra Feb 2002

All were at just about the correct level for the privileges
conferred, IMO. I don't think the Technician test is proper
preparation for the General class license.


Does it really require more skill and knowledge to operate on 14.155 vs.
14.326? ;-)

Of course the real reason for the frequency based priv's is that it is
easily identified
what frequency you are operating on at a remote FCC receiving site.

Your point is more valid when comparing techs against general/extras
(VHF vs HF).




And there is still that nasty "day after" thing, when th eetsting
regimin goes up again...... or does it?



The testing regieme doesn't *have* to "go up again" ... NOBODY has
proposed
that the testing regieme be changed ... only that, in the interest of
"nobody loses privileges" (which was a DISASTER in the past), that
there be
a one-time "adjustment" to make everyone fit the new structure without
losing ...


But there is the problem. You either choose to believe (or simply
don't care) that the person that takes and passes a Technician test
one day before "the adjustment" is not treated differently by the
testing process than the person that takes the general test the day
after "the adjustment".

While people are grousing about how HARD those tests are, I look
at it as giving a royal shaft to the technicians upgraded in this
proposal.

It makes for a little awkwardness at the Extra level afterwards,
as they will not have taken a General element test.

I know that it's all about getting maximum benefits for minimum
input these days, but if a prospective ham asked me, I would suggest
that they wait until after "the one time adjustment" to get their
license, unless they wanted to go through the ranks quickly and get at
least General before the "one time adjustment. Learning and testing is
not a bad thing, IMO.

- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ...

Once again, it would be irresponsible for the NCI Board of Directors to
ignore the wishes of the vast majority of our membership in favor of
honoring Hans' wishes - though we certainly did listen to and consider his
views, and some of the NCI Directors even had lengthily e-mail discussions
with him.


Thought-experiment:

Suppose the vast majority of your membership said they'd reconsidered.

Suppose they said that 5 wpm for Extra was OK, as proposed by ARRL.

Would NCI support that, or simply expel the heretics?

I've tried that already, Jim. They don't like thought experiments very
much!

- Mike KB3EIA -

(WA8ULX) wrote in message ...
Given enough time, they'll come around to my way of thinking. One
amateur radio service, one license.

bb

Of course, that is the Real Motive, 1 License, 1 Test,

So far, so good. I'm amazed that you grasp the concept of, "one
amateur radio service, one amateur radio license," so quickly. Way to
go, Bruce!

maybe not even a TEST,

Oops. You've strayed.

remember were all EQUAL, arent we?

Only before Riley.

(WA8ULX) wrote in message ...
There is NO obligation for NCI to publish that data...as you well know.

Of course not, your group doesnt want anyone to know hnow small your org is.

What's it to you?

Politics 101: You can't please all the people (or members) all
the time.

And everyone knows how Lies are part of politics.

They're certainly a part of your upgrade stories.

Hypothetical silliness again. I have no time to
discuss that which will never happen.

Just like, we will never support Dumbing Down of the Written

Someone must have. You got in.