KØHB wrote:

"JJ" wrote
| |
| | And that is why the military and other emergency officials do not
| | include cell phones in their emergency planning , but they do
include
| | amateur radio.
| |
|
| I spent a whole career involved in military (Naval) communications
| planning, from single units to entire fleets, and never once
included
| amateur radio as a component of that planning.
|
|
| You never seerved at a Naval facility that didn't have a MARS
station or
| used MARS for passing ANY kind of traffic, Hans...???
|
|
| In the past I certainly ran lots of phone patches for U.S Naval
personel
| aboard U.S Naval ships to family here in the states. Still even have
the
| logs I kept of each patch.

Sorry JJ,

MARS is not amateur radio.

Even if it were, phone patches home to Mom are great morale boosters,
but they not "emergency planning".

Where did I say MARS was amateur radio? I did not even mention MARS.
These were phone patches made on the amateur bands by Naval personnel
who held amateur radio licenses.

JJ wrote:
KØHB wrote:
"JJ" wrote

| NORAD, which is definitely military, does include ham radio in their
| plans,

bs

BS all you want, but just a few weeks ago I sat in a seminar with USN
Rear Admiral Daniel Stone, Director of Logistics and Engineering for
NORAD/USNORTHCOM and he says differently.

Was he laughing when you wouldn't tell him your call sign?

"JJ" wrote

| | | And that is why the military and other emergency officials do
not
| | | include cell phones in their emergency planning , but they do

|
| Where did I say MARS was amateur radio? I did not even mention MARS.
| These were phone patches made on the amateur bands by Naval personnel
| who held amateur radio licenses.
|

Been there, done that. It's just amateurs passing third party morale
traffic to other amateurs and has nothing whatever to do with "emergency
planning".

73, de Hans, K0HB

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Cell phone woes
From: "KØHB"
Date: 4/22/2004 11:04 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: et


"JJ" wrote
|
| And that is why the military and other emergency officials do not
| include cell phones in their emergency planning , but they do include
| amateur radio.
|

I spent a whole career involved in military (Naval) communications
planning, from single units to entire fleets, and never once included
amateur radio as a component of that planning.

You never seerved at a Naval facility that didn't have a MARS station or
used MARS for passing ANY kind of traffic, Hans...???

Steve, you're confusing MARS with Amateur Radio. They are not the
same thing.

I know of four military facilities, one of them Naval, that incorporate
MARS teams for emergency purposes,

That's like saying, "I know of military installations that are guarded
by military police,"

MARS is military. Check out what the acronym means sometime.

and two of them that utilize RACES teams for
civil coordination in appropriate scenarios.

"and two of them use contract security services."

Civil Defense guys like FEMA in fact do count on amateur radio in
emergency situations.

"Civil Defense guys" include military planners.

Except when one is Master Chief Brakob or MSgt. Burke.

I just finished
"Heartland Response 04" and I can tell you that there were at least two
uniformed representitives from Penatgon offices there.

OK.

Guess they forgot to consult you first, Hans.

Since you've concluded "Heartland Response 04," would you mind giving
us an after action report? Lessons learned?

Go figure, eh...?!?!

So does MARS still = ARS?

Steve, K4YZ

bb

Subject: Cell phone woes
From: "KØHB"
Date: 4/23/2004 12:33 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"JJ" wrote

| NORAD, which is definitely military, does include ham radio in their
| plans,

bs

OK, Hans...Prove him wrong. I say you're running off at the mouth.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Cell phone woes
From: "KØHB"
Date: 4/23/2004 1:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"JJ" wrote

| In the past I certainly ran lots of phone patches for U.S Naval
personel
| aboard U.S Naval ships to family here in the states. Still even have
the
| logs I kept of each patch.

Sorry JJ,

MARS is not amateur radio.

Even if it were, phone patches home to Mom are great morale boosters,
but they not "emergency planning".


Sorry Hans, MARS IS "Amateur Radio".

With the exception of a very few Active Duty personnel assigned to oversee
the program, every single person in all three branches of MARS are licensed
Amateur Radio Operators.

Prerequisite #1 for ALL branches is licensure in the Amatuer Radio
Service.

ex NNN0GCM (Area Coordinator, Navy/Marine Corps MARS, Guam/Mariana
Islands)

Congratulations. None of it changes the facts about MARS, however.

Formerly NNN0VVU (CHOP, NNN0MOC/MOF, Assistant Islandwide Coordinator for
Okinawa, 1981), AFA1OQ, AAT4SA.

So there....Nyah.....

Steve, K4YZ

Hello, Hans

Does "sparkplug", "sparkplug1", and "KG6AAY" ring a bell

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA (formerly WB2OSP whilst on Guam Island)
ps - your point, however, is well taken. If something happens, everyone
pitches in to make thing happen the way they should.

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

Sorry JJ,

MARS is not amateur radio.

Even if it were, phone patches home to Mom are great morale boosters,
but they not "emergency planning".

73, de Hans, K0HB
ex NNN0GCM (Area Coordinator, Navy/Marine Corps MARS, Guam/Mariana
Islands)







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Steve,

Hans was involved in emergencies. He can tell you the story about getting
comms back up to Guam from Saipan (did I get the right island that time,
Hans?

What everyone seems to forget here is that a considerable amount of military
traffic just might be classified. Also, do you want anyone knowing what the
ratio of classified to unclassified traffic is? If only some traffic were
encrypted, if that ratio changed to much more encrypted, people might be
able to draw some guesses as to "something is either happening or about to
happen".

The military has their way of doing things, and, quite frankly, I think they
do it very well indeed. No slam on amateur radio, but this is a very
different situation. Even military radios have mil-spec components and can
operate in conditions that our radios could not stand up to. You might be
in the Middle East in a desert in summer with sandstorms or in Korea in the
wintertime. You might be in a jungle with extensive rain and 100% humidity.
You might be in mountains.

Why would they try to include an unsecure (as opposed to encrypted - which,
by our laws, cannot be encrypted) service with gear that may perform well -
so long as the temperature is between 40 and 90 degrees farenheit with a
relative humidity between 30 and 90 percent and at an altitude not to exceed
10,000 feet?

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...

I see you're ate up with "stupid" today, Hans. Air too rare in MN
these
days?

Not all MARS activities are involved in "emergency planning", however
MANY
installations INCLUDE the MARS program IN thier plans.

Sorry you are too caught up in your own self-righteousness to
acknowledge
it. Seeems you ahve a really bad problem with that lately.

It still doesn't change facts, however.

Sorry. It really IS THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ



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"Jim Hampton" wrote

| Hello, Hans
|
| Does "sparkplug", "sparkplug1", and "KG6AAY" ring a bell


Indeed it does, Jim. Still exchange holiday correstpondence with both
Norm Spidell and Tom Belvin.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"JJ" wrote

| NORAD, which is definitely military, does include ham radio in their
| plans,

bs


Maybe not for "secret" traffic, but routine stuff would be handled by
hams to
offload the more important communications channels. Or maybe some
"secret" stuff, encrypted and disguised to look like boring routine
traffic, is
handled by hams, but they wouldn't be aware of it.