"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/27/2004 7:34 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW testing

question, but is related by being a CW operating question.

With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?

Sure...why not? It requires some REAL skill to do. In this regard,
as in
any other pursuit in life, greater skill should be rewarded.

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

Not "more equal"...Just better compensation.

As a Nurse with my experience, credentials and skills, I expect to be
compensated accordiningly. So why not be "compensated" in a contest that
required using honed skills, too...?!?!

Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

And how long would it take a "new" Ham to master using a keyboard?

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.

Shudda been on the paddles!

Seriously, though...Most contests differentiatemodes in awards...

Steve, K4YZ





Simply stated....CW Contesting requires real skills. Digital requires the
ability to type.
Phone is way down there from the above requirements.

If you want to do so....Give phone 1 point, digital 2 points, and CW 5
points per qso.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Dan/W4NTI

Your opinion looks wrong to me.

My opinion is that the point schedule should be inverted from what you
propose. I mean, when Aaron Jones was keeping the Morse Myths list,
it would appear that a CW QSO just couldn't fail. It always got
through, no matter the propogation, the power level, the QRN, or the
QRM. Each and every Op would QRS for the new guy and everything was
just so wonderful.

Meanwhile phone Ops practice dog-eat-dog, QRM each other, use bad
phonetics, and propogation is always iffy. Furthermore, they marry
their Technician sisters and don't even QSL.

Bass turds!

Give the phone ops 5 pts per completed QSO, the CW Ops get 1.

"William" wrote in message
om...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/27/2004 7:34 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW
testing

question, but is related by being a CW operating question.

With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?

Sure...why not? It requires some REAL skill to do. In this
regard,
as in
any other pursuit in life, greater skill should be rewarded.

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

Not "more equal"...Just better compensation.

As a Nurse with my experience, credentials and skills, I expect to
be
compensated accordiningly. So why not be "compensated" in a contest
that
required using honed skills, too...?!?!

Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number
of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

And how long would it take a "new" Ham to master using a
keyboard?

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard
and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.

Shudda been on the paddles!

Seriously, though...Most contests differentiatemodes in awards...

Steve, K4YZ





Simply stated....CW Contesting requires real skills. Digital requires
the
ability to type.
Phone is way down there from the above requirements.

If you want to do so....Give phone 1 point, digital 2 points, and CW 5
points per qso.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Dan/W4NTI

Your opinion looks wrong to me.

My opinion is that the point schedule should be inverted from what you
propose. I mean, when Aaron Jones was keeping the Morse Myths list,
it would appear that a CW QSO just couldn't fail. It always got
through, no matter the propogation, the power level, the QRN, or the
QRM. Each and every Op would QRS for the new guy and everything was
just so wonderful.

Meanwhile phone Ops practice dog-eat-dog, QRM each other, use bad
phonetics, and propogation is always iffy. Furthermore, they marry
their Technician sisters and don't even QSL.

Bass turds!

Give the phone ops 5 pts per completed QSO, the CW Ops get 1.

And what was your score in the last major DX contest? Or lets make it
easier. How many DX QSO's have you had in a major contest....????

If under 300, you are disqualified from inputing on this discussioon.

Dan/W4NTI

bject: Morse and Contests
From: "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@getrid of this mindspring.com
Date: 4/29/2004 12:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"William" wrote in message
. com...
Meanwhile phone Ops practice dog-eat-dog, QRM each other, use bad
phonetics, and propogation is always iffy. Furthermore, they marry
their Technician sisters and don't even QSL.

Bass turds!

Give the phone ops 5 pts per completed QSO, the CW Ops get 1.

And what was your score in the last major DX contest? Or lets make it
easier. How many DX QSO's have you had in a major contest....????

If under 300, you are disqualified from inputing on this discussioon.

Better yet, how many DX contacts has he made as a duly-authorized control
operator from a DX location...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net...
"William" wrote in message
om...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/27/2004 7:34 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW
testing

question, but is related by being a CW operating question.

With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?

Sure...why not? It requires some REAL skill to do. In this
regard,
as in
any other pursuit in life, greater skill should be rewarded.

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

Not "more equal"...Just better compensation.

As a Nurse with my experience, credentials and skills, I expect to
be
compensated accordiningly. So why not be "compensated" in a contest
that
required using honed skills, too...?!?!

Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number
of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

And how long would it take a "new" Ham to master using a
keyboard?

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard
and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.

Shudda been on the paddles!

Seriously, though...Most contests differentiatemodes in awards...

Steve, K4YZ





Simply stated....CW Contesting requires real skills. Digital requires
the
ability to type.
Phone is way down there from the above requirements.

If you want to do so....Give phone 1 point, digital 2 points, and CW 5
points per qso.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Dan/W4NTI

Your opinion looks wrong to me.

My opinion is that the point schedule should be inverted from what you
propose. I mean, when Aaron Jones was keeping the Morse Myths list,
it would appear that a CW QSO just couldn't fail. It always got
through, no matter the propogation, the power level, the QRN, or the
QRM. Each and every Op would QRS for the new guy and everything was
just so wonderful.

Meanwhile phone Ops practice dog-eat-dog, QRM each other, use bad
phonetics, and propogation is always iffy. Furthermore, they marry
their Technician sisters and don't even QSL.

Bass turds!

Give the phone ops 5 pts per completed QSO, the CW Ops get 1.

And what was your score in the last major DX contest?

Name the last Major DX contest.

Or lets make it
easier. How many DX QSO's have you had in a major contest....????

Don't recall. Go look it up in CQ. 1990 - 1991 time frame.

If under 300, you are disqualified from inputing on this discussioon.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan, you're wrong again. You don't speak for CQ Magazine nor the
ARRL, though it appears that you would like to.

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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:

Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to the
point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're orthogonal, as far
as I can tell.

Mike While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does
Mike it make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than
Mike others?

Yes, in my humble opinion. It's harder (at least for me and many of
my ham friends) to make contacts via CW, so those should be worth more
points.

Mike Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
Mike double points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the
Mike same double points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked
Mike up a fair number of points operating PSK31, and it was certainly
Mike no more difficult than operating Phone.

I don't operate PSK31, and I'm not that interested in trying at the
moment, so I can't say.

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

And how hard did that CW op work?

Mike - Mike KB3EIA -

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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And how hard did that CW op work?



Well some of us here could do it while driving a bus. I wouldn't recomment
it, as if something happened that driver would be in deep do-do.....

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"Robert" == Robert Casey writes:

Jack And how hard did that CW op work?

Robert Well some of us here could do it while driving a bus. I
Robert wouldn't recomment it, as if something happened that driver
Robert would be in deep do-do.....

True, just like some of those phone ops could do it while driving an
SUV filled with brats in soccer cleats. What's your point?

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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Jack Twilley wrote:
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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:


Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to the
point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're orthogonal, as far
as I can tell.

I was always told that the increased points offered was an
encouragement to work CW.


Mike While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does
Mike it make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than
Mike others?

Yes, in my humble opinion. It's harder (at least for me and many of
my ham friends) to make contacts via CW, so those should be worth more
points.

Mike Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
Mike double points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the
Mike same double points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked
Mike up a fair number of points operating PSK31, and it was certainly
Mike no more difficult than operating Phone.

I don't operate PSK31, and I'm not that interested in trying at the
moment, so I can't say.

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

And how hard did that CW op work?


I doubt twice as hard as the Phone person.

- Mike KB3EIA -

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Hash: SHA1

"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:

Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

Jack How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to
Jack the point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're
Jack orthogonal, as far as I can tell.

Mike I was always told that the increased points offered was an
Mike encouragement to work CW.

That doesn't really answer the question. A Technician can send CW on
certain HF bands, even without a higher-class license-holder present.
A ham with any other license can work phone contacts. Therefore,
whether or not an amateur has passed a Morse code test has nothing to
do with woether or not they can use Morse code. Even if the
multiplier is to provide encouragement to use Morse code, it still
doesn't have anything to do with whether or not hams are tested.

Now, if you're going to assert that the potential end to Morse code
testing will eventually cause hams to stop learning and/or using Morse
code, and that therefore the multiplier is akin to the "marriage
penalty" [1], well, I'm not sure that's true. If it is, NCI should be
raising holy hell about the pro-code conspiracy behind all these
contests, right?

[...]

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

Jack And how hard did that CW op work?

Mike I doubt twice as hard as the Phone person.

You could measure it yourself, you know. Work two similar contests
(say, two of the QSO parties coming up soon). Operate solely in phone
for the first contest. Score your points and keep track of your
experience with notes or something. Operate solely in CW for the
second contest. Do the same sort of scoring and note-taking. Report
back to the group with your personal experience.

When I know the code, I'll do the same thing, if only to satisfy my
own curiosity.

Mike - Mike KB3EIA -

Jack.

[1] For those who are unfamiliar with this concept, for some time the
tax structure in the US was such that married couples with two similar
incomes paid more tax than married couples with one income, or with
two very dissimilar incomes, even when the total number of dollars
earned is the same. The common theory behind this is that it is
designed to encourage married couples to have one working spouse and
one non-working spouse. Whether or not this is moral, ethical, or
even a good idea is a different question.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Jack Twilley" wrote

If it is, NCI should be raising holy hell about the
pro-code conspiracy behind all these
contests, right?

One NCI Director calls contests "electronic splat ball".
Actually, I kinda like that description. One of my grandsons
asked about contesting, and I used that metaphor. Now he wants
to multi-op with me in this years SS.

You could measure it yourself, you know. Work two similar
contests
(say, two of the QSO parties coming up soon). Operate solely
in phone
for the first contest. Score your points and keep track of
your
experience with notes or something. Operate solely in CW for
the
second contest. Do the same sort of scoring and note-taking.
Report
back to the group with your personal experience.

I regularly work both weekends of SS (CW one weekend, Phone two
weeks later). Both are scored the same way, each two-way contact
counts for 2 points (a message sent and a message received).
Personally I enjoy the CW weekend more, but invariably score
higher on Phone weekend, simply because I can copy CW at only
about 45 WPM, and voice at about 300WPM.

73, de Hans, K0HB

PS: If you don't like keyers, you ain't gonna make it
contesting.