(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: News from France
From: Alun
Date: 5/9/2004 9:13 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

WE haven't "blown" anything..."They" have had the opportunity to
get a
code-free license for what...12-13 years now..?!?!


Nope, we needed to give them HF while they were still interested.

And once we "gave" it to them, Alun, what do you think they would have
done with it?

Likely the same thing that you've done with it.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

It is a hobby for the dedicated and relative few.

- Mike KB3EIA -



Absolutely correct Mike, another arguement for quality and not quanity.

Dan/W4NTI

"Alun" wrote in message
...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: News from France
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 5/9/2004 8:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Alun wrote:

I always used to meet people who told me they would get a licence but
for the code test. I think we could have had them in the hobby if we
had abolished code testing 20 years ago, but I think it is too late
and we have blown it. Nobody is clamouring to becme a ham anymore.

WE haven't "blown" anything..."They" have had the opportunity to
get a
code-free license for what...12-13 years now..?!?!


Nope, we needed to give them HF while they were still interested.

Why is that Alun? Do you think that getting out a decent signal on HF is a
piece of cake?

Daily I hear the newguys trying to contact someone. Getting sorry pathetic
signal reports and going away in frustration.

Wonder how many new HFers we lose like that? You know the ones that believe
its soooooo easy to get up on HF? Probably hundreds per week.

I do the best I can when I hear someone like that. But it gets really old
when you trying to have a conversation with a bud, to talk to all the S2
signals.

Perhaps 'giving' out HF is NOT the answer as you think.

Dan/W4NTI

Mike Coslo wrote:

Alun wrote:

The French have been waitng for some time for a government minister
to sign the rule change abolishing their code test. It was signed on
the 4th, and will take effect when published in the official journal,
probably either on the 14th or 21st of May, 2004.



Have any numbers on the impact of this Morse code abolition? The
earliest countries to dump Morse should have some numbers that reflect
the change one way or the other.

- Mike KB3EIA -

More likely you will see a lot of existing hams upgrading, like what
happened
after Restructuring in the USA. Do all French no-coders get access to
all of
HF? Or just some small subbands? Likely they will still need to take and
pass some written tests to get access to all of HF.

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


It is a hobby for the dedicated and relative few.

- Mike KB3EIA -




Absolutely correct Mike, another arguement for quality and not quanity.


And yet that is lost on so many people! Let's say we get a huge influx
of new hams. Where the heck are they all going to go? What will they do?
Here it is 10:30 p.m. heading toward the bottom of the present sunspot
cycle, and I'm looking at 20 signals on my PSK31 setup in a 3 kHz
segment. I can tune the bands on ssb and cw and by Gaw, they are busy!
As much as I like contesting, I don't want the bands to sound like
contest weekends all the time.

I want new hams, I want more to come along to balance out the SK's and
those that lose interest. But I want good hams, not simply people that
are here to provide a statistic. Anything else will be BAD for Ham radio.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Alun" wrote in message
...

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:


Subject: News from France
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 5/9/2004 8:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Alun wrote:

I always used to meet people who told me they would get a licence but
for the code test. I think we could have had them in the hobby if we
had abolished code testing 20 years ago, but I think it is too late
and we have blown it. Nobody is clamouring to becme a ham anymore.

WE haven't "blown" anything..."They" have had the opportunity to
get a
code-free license for what...12-13 years now..?!?!


Nope, we needed to give them HF while they were still interested.


Why is that Alun? Do you think that getting out a decent signal on HF is a
piece of cake?

Daily I hear the newguys trying to contact someone. Getting sorry pathetic
signal reports and going away in frustration.

Wonder how many new HFers we lose like that? You know the ones that believe
its soooooo easy to get up on HF? Probably hundreds per week.

Darn near lost me! Thank goodness I found a good Elmer. I was pulling
me hair out trying to put a station together.

No, Putting an adequate station together is not easy.

I do the best I can when I hear someone like that. But it gets really old
when you trying to have a conversation with a bud, to talk to all the S2
signals.

Perhaps 'giving' out HF is NOT the answer as you think.

Nope. Just imagine all the "why should I have to learn anything people
trying to do this. Perhaps they will sue the older hams for the
information to get a decent station going? ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: News from France
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 5/9/2004 8:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Alun wrote:


I always used to meet people who told me they would get a licence but for
the code test. I think we could have had them in the hobby if we had
abolished code testing 20 years ago, but I think it is too late and we have
blown it. Nobody is clamouring to becme a ham anymore.


WE haven't "blown" anything..."They" have had the opportunity to get a
code-free license for what...12-13 years now..?!?!

If it weren't the Code test, it would be the written....If it's not the
tests themselves, it's the perception that you have to have to have enough
equipment to rival VOA


My life's experience has been that for every hobby or avocation, there
is a large group of people that "would do it except for....". What they
are actually tell you when they say this is " I have a passing interest
in this. But I'm not so interested that I will become a participant".


In hang gliding we call them "wuffos"...

As in "Wuffo you wanna do that..???" You oughtta see the faces at
speedgliding events!


People in amateur astronomy also obsess about the graying of the hobby,


and how do we get the kids involved? Fact is, a scope that can actually
be used for any kind of passable observation costs a fair amount of
money. And ohhh geee, the dufusses that wanted to get the little kids
interested in observing seem to have forgotten that Mommy and Daddy
don't want little Buffy or Jody (and by extension, Mommy or Daddy) to be
staying up all night and traveling to remote sites.....


Sure...and why go to all that effort when you can see Jupiter a lot easier
with a bit of creative websurfing!


In ham radio, a person not only has to have the interest, they have to
be willing and able to spend a fair amount of discretionary income on a
rig, put up an antenna, (if they are even allowed to) and all the other
things we have to do to get on the air.


I guess "fair amount" is realtive. You can put up an effective HF/VHF/UHF
station for under $350/400 if you do a bit of shopping and don't want all the
latest bells and whistles. Then there are they guys with TOO MUCH
"discretionary income" and have stations who look like the aforementioned VOA
outlets!

True. I put together my station for $250.00 for the rig (got real lucky
there) 14 dollars for antenna wire, 20 dollars for twinlead, 140 dollars
for antenna tuner. Already had a computer so I don't count that. So I
was right around that 350 dollar mark. If a young'un could spend the
time and effort (remembering that the parents have to spend that time
and effort too) they could get something pretty inexpensive. I suspect
most wouldn't though.


Any wonder why lots of the new guys are the shack on the belt types?
For kids, usually dependent upon M&D for their money, M&D are often
happy to spend 100-200 dollars on a HT. They might not look so happily
upon laying out $800-3000 for an hf rig, and putting up that antenna.
All the young hams in my area are repeater people, save for Field day.


This is where "Elmering" could come in and these youngsters get introduced
to where/how to look for those used rigs.


Yaknow, I think clubs might think about getting a member that works
with the kids. This would be a person willing to go through the
background checks for working with young'uns and is good with kids.


Finally, the comparison of ham radio to the internet is amusing at
best. There is almost not technical comparison between the two. Beyond
the technogeeks such as myself, that spend a fair amount of time keeping
other peoples computers on the stinkin' Internet, the technical acumen
level is mighty darn low. How much ability is needed to surf porn?


I dunno, Mike...How much IS needed...?!?! =O =)

I remember years ago one of the guy's on Fidonet had a tagline that
stated he was looking for a good one handed GIF viewer!! 8^P



My points are that blaming the lack of growth (which is an arguable
thing in the first place) on the Morse code test is kind of like saying
that a frog with no legs that can't jump when you tell it to jump, is deaf.

It is a hobby for the dedicated and relative few.


Yep...like I said...Amateur Radio (for those who participate regularly) has
almost always appealed to a very narrow segment of society and always will.
All we need to do is keep it out there in front of those "potentials" and wait
for them to decide for themselves.

Yup, viva le geeky kids! (as a former geeky kid, I can say that)


Steve, were you going to Dayton this year?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in
.net:


"Alun" wrote in message
...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: News from France
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 5/9/2004 8:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Alun wrote:

I always used to meet people who told me they would get a licence
but for the code test. I think we could have had them in the hobby
if we had abolished code testing 20 years ago, but I think it is
too late and we have blown it. Nobody is clamouring to becme a ham
anymore.

WE haven't "blown" anything..."They" have had the opportunity
to get a
code-free license for what...12-13 years now..?!?!


Nope, we needed to give them HF while they were still interested.

Why is that Alun? Do you think that getting out a decent signal on HF
is a piece of cake?

Daily I hear the newguys trying to contact someone. Getting sorry
pathetic signal reports and going away in frustration.

Wonder how many new HFers we lose like that? You know the ones that
believe its soooooo easy to get up on HF? Probably hundreds per week.

I do the best I can when I hear someone like that. But it gets really
old when you trying to have a conversation with a bud, to talk to all
the S2 signals.

Perhaps 'giving' out HF is NOT the answer as you think.

Dan/W4NTI






And knowing CW is going to enhance their knowledge of how to set up and HF
station? I think not.

Robert Casey wrote in
:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Alun wrote:

The French have been waitng for some time for a government minister
to sign the rule change abolishing their code test. It was signed on
the 4th, and will take effect when published in the official journal,
probably either on the 14th or 21st of May, 2004.



Have any numbers on the impact of this Morse code abolition? The
earliest countries to dump Morse should have some numbers that reflect
the change one way or the other.

- Mike KB3EIA -

More likely you will see a lot of existing hams upgrading, like what
happened
after Restructuring in the USA. Do all French no-coders get access to
all of
HF? Or just some small subbands? Likely they will still need to take
and pass some written tests to get access to all of HF.


They will all get the whole thing. Unlike here, they took the same theory.
This is the most common scenario in Europe. Most of the hams in Europe are
now licenced for all the HF bands.

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
My life's experience has been that for every hobby or avocation,
there
is a large group of people that "would do it except for....". What
they
are actually tell you when they say this is " I have a passing
interest
in this. But I'm not so interested that I will become a participant".

BANG! Drove that nail with a single blow, Mike!

Whether it is the Morse code requirement, or the cost of a rig or
effort of putting up an antenna, or the cost of a telescope or the
need
to travel to remote areas that are dark enough or the fact that you
have
to stay up all night to observe, etc, etc.

This is true of *any* activity. Heck, when I was training for the
marathon 20 years ago, I met plenty of folks who said they wanted to
run a marathon - if only it wasn't 26.22 miles long...

People in amateur astronomy also obsess about the graying of the
hobby,
and how do we get the kids involved? Fact is, a scope that can
actually
be used for any kind of passable observation costs a fair amount of
money.

Is it really so much money, Mike? I've heard that there are some folks
who make their own 'scopes, down to the grinding of lenses and mirrors
and such. And of course there are used telescopes. But the telescope
itself is probably the least of the issues.

And ohhh geee, the dufusses that wanted to get the little kids
interested in observing seem to have forgotten that Mommy and Daddy
don't want little Buffy or Jody (and by extension, Mommy or Daddy) to
be
staying up all night and traveling to remote sites.....

Here's another issue:

If someone wants to look at the moon, planets and stars, the libraries
and bookstores are full of books with pictures that no amateur could
hope to equal. The 'net is an even more amazing resource. Look at the
pictures of Saturn coming from Cassini - this is gonna be one heck of
a summer for planetary science! And no staying up late, no special
equipment, no disappointments due to clouds or rain or cold. No real
knowledge of things like where to point the 'scope or how to interpret
what is seen, either.

Of course looking at pictures taken by others is not the same thing as
seeing something directly. But for most people, it's 'close enough'.

In ham radio, a person not only has to have the interest, they have
to
be willing and able to spend a fair amount of discretionary income on
a
rig, put up an antenna, (if they are even allowed to) and all the
other
things we have to do to get on the air.

The biggest investments aren't monetary. It's the time and effort.

Any wonder why lots of the new guys are the shack on the belt types?
For kids, usually dependent upon M&D for their money, M&D are often
happy to spend 100-200 dollars on a HT. They might not look so
happily
upon laying out $800-3000 for an hf rig, and putting up that antenna.
All the young hams in my area are repeater people, save for Field
day.

37 years ago I was one of those young hams, and got no help from the
parental units. Today's kids are no different. The big difference
today is that for too many folks the antenna is a really big deal.
Heck, look how many *adult* hams can't figure out how to put up an
effective HF antenna these days...

Finally, the comparison of ham radio to the internet is amusing at
best. There is almost not technical comparison between the two.
Beyond
the technogeeks such as myself, that spend a fair amount of time
keeping
other peoples computers on the stinkin' Internet, the technical
acumen
level is mighty darn low. How much ability is needed to surf porn?

Since the advent of GUIs the whole point of personal computing has
been to make it easier for *everyone* to use them. That's what has
driven the industry for 20+ years.

My points are that blaming the lack of growth (which is an arguable
thing in the first place) on the Morse code test is kind of like
saying
that a frog with no legs that can't jump when you tell it to jump, is
deaf.

I wish I knew where that one came from!

It is a hobby for the dedicated and relative few.

Here's a datapoint for ya:

In 1972 I graduated from a suburban Catholic boys' high school. This
was in a solidly middle-class area, at a school that stressed math and
science (AP courses available in those days were calculus, physics,
chemistry, and history). My graduating class was over 600. IIRC
exactly three of us graduates were hams. Of those three, only I am
still licensed.

The girls' high school next door (literally) was slightly larger - and
had no hams at all. Out of maybe 5000 kids in grades 9 through 12
there were perhaps 9 or 10 licensed hams.

The reasons for the scarcity were many. For example, many
extracurricular activities competed for our time and energy. (Like
this blonde 11th grader who - no, wait, wrong newsgroup...). There was
no organized school activity until we kids started a radio club of our
own, which rose and fell on the efforts of us kids. More than a few
kids back then though amateur radio was "square" - its conservative
political nature (K7UGA) and military ties made more than a few look
askance.

Most of all, those were the boom times for cb. For less than the cost
of a half-decent used receiver like a Drake 2B, one could head over to
Lafayette Radio or one of its competitors and bring home a complete
setup - 23 channel transceiver, groundplane antenna, coax, mounting
hardware, etc. All brand new, ready to go. And if you had a car, a few
more dollars bought a mobile mount and 102" whip antenna. License?
Just fill out a form - but in fact many did not bother to do even that
much. No tuneup, no fancy adjustments - just pick a channel, push the
button and talk.

I don't know how many kids in my school had cbs or access to them, but
they outnumbered us hams back then. Some of them became hams, most
lost interest when the cb boom ended.

Things haven't changed all that much, except now it's the 'net that's
a prime competitor.

73 de Jim, N2EY