Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 6/17/2004 1:39 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:


Amateur radio in general seems to be one of the most conservative
of all radio services...plus the fact that most of the hobbyists are
quite unaware of what goes on in other radio services. Amateur
radio publications seldom mention other radio services in the USA.
As a result there is a great deal of insularity (a sort of "dielectric
materialism") which, in turns, breeds even more conservatism.

I'm so glad I re-read this one - I missed that pun the first
read-through. Simply excellent.


It wasn't meant as a pun, Mike. He's being insulting. Again.

It's the "dielectric materialism" that's the pun, Steve. Whatever the
other content of the post is, that was a great play on words, and was
pretty hilarious.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/17/2004 4:45 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Meanwhile, if I ever find out what's holding me down on the anti-
gravity invention, I will rise above it all.

You mean walking on water wasn't enough...?!?!?

Jesus Christ, NO...

In article ,
(Putzcussionist of the Rock-head group Grateful Dood) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/17/2004 5:24 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve the Grate Meaningful Communicator) writes:

"I am only here to civilly debate the Morse Code test issue"...Leonard
H. Anderson

Was the SINCGARS family of radios ever mentioned? ...(SNIPPED)

There are a LOT of military radio systems and equipment NOT mentioned in
Amateur media...and byt eh same token most of those systems are NOT mentions
in a great many professional journals, either...! ! ! ! !

Hmmm...General Dynamics as well as ITT make a quarter million
radio sets over a period of 15 years and it is "not" mentioned in
any professional journals?!?!?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. SINCGARS has been in the news since Defense
Electronics monthly was published, is in SIGNAL, the monthly of
AFCEA, gets mentioned periodically in EDN, Electronics Design,
EE Times, RF Design, RF & Microwaves magazines, plus articles
in both Proceedings and some Transactions of the IEEE. It's in
the UK too since Harris is making SINCGARS-compatible radio
systems for them.

Those are all "professional journals" since they are non-
subscription "controlled" periodicals requiring identification of
the reader to the magazines as being in/part/associated with
the electronics industry. Decidedly professional.

Not only that, there are many subscription services which have
newsletters and periodicals and surveys, etc., of the defense
electronics contracts, awards, amounts, add-ons, etc. for those
who can't handle the free information from the government on
such things. Example of the latter is Central Electronics
Command at Fort Monmouth, NJ, which concerns itself with
procurement and overseeing of Army electronics contracts.

Your point?

There's quite a bit of FREE information out there for anyone to
find out about military or government radio systems and
communications. Been there for a long time, even before the
Internet went public such as the SINCGARS.

A QUARTER MILLION radio sets of one kind makes for some
future surplus market, doesn't it? [that's the most of any one
kind of radio system in government history...]

If poor nursie is annoyed at not being spoon-fed enough info
through hum radio magazines, then he should not try to mean-
mouth those who know about such things. Tsk, tsk.


Tsk, tsk, tsk. Nursie getting all red in the face with rage again and
can't pull out any information from all those "secret" military radios
"he can't talk about."

Only you've tried to make it "secret".

No, nursie did, way back when I first mentioned the SINCGARS in
here plus the public availability of FM 24-24 of December 1994 (a
compendium of signal equipment of all kinds, including HF radio
sets, then in military inventory).

Nursie claimed then - in broad generalities - he had "worked in
military communications" but could not name ONE SET by
either nomenclature or familiar name ANY of them. Claimed
he could not talk about them due to not revealing military
secrets or some rationalistic reason. Which was all BS, of
course, since the general information had long been publicly
available through many government sources.

Secondly, there are several "radio hobbyist" magazines available in the
US, espcially "Popular Communications" and "Monitoring Times" that cover the
"SWL" and scanning disciplines. If someone is interested in "other radio
services", then they can go to those other sources.

Won't be much there, either.

Then you've not been reading any of THOSE publications either.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I keep mentioning all those periodicals and controlled-
subscription magazines and other information, write them in here,
sometimes giving detailed information, and nursie keeps saying "I
don't read them! :-)

I'm NOT a regular subscriber to PopComm or Monitoring Times,
never did get every annual WRTH, don't buy every issue of CQ or
QST, nor of the old 73. Got a free subscription to HR after becoming
an Associate Editor there. Neither did I buy every issue of
PopElectronics or Radio Communication (the RSGB monthly) nor
of the old Radio Craft or Radio and Television News or many of the
old newsstand monthlies of ancient history. Don't have to...I'm not
interested in ham DX contest scoresheets or nostalgia articles of
old hum radio from the 1930s or building two-transistor transmitters
in discarded tuna tine cans nor of building super-duper state-of-the-
art one-tube regenerative receivers (all-band!).

Been IN the electronics industry, seen lots of stuff up close and
personal, designed a little bit of it, used it in the field. Radios.
Modern radios. Got into the guts of them behind the front panel,
know how they work...followed the contract awards, know who
did what on some of it, know the modern history of it instead of
concentrating on old history of one small part of radio related to
hobby activities.


There's much more on the Internet, especially the military collector
sites...but those are about as behind the times as the boatanchor
and surplus sites.

Then carry your rants THERE, Lennie. I am sure your spiteful wit and
willingness to be antagonistic will be as well received there as it is here.

Naw. I like the "meaningful discourse" of mighty gunnery nurse
and his liberal viewpoints of my-way-or-the-highway-you-putz!"

:-)

Perhaps the Amateur Radio magazines limit the scope of thier content for
the same reasons you don't find a whole lot of fly fishing technique articles
in "Cosmo"...?!?!

Nursie get amateur radio info from Cosmopolitan or Field & Steam? :-)


Where does this idiot
(and I am being a bit liberal with praise there...) get the idea that an
AMATEUR RADIO publication should discuss issues pertaining to Public
Service,
Common Carrier or military services when the topic does not correspondingly
and directly affect Amateur Radio...?!?!

Must be more of this "meaningful discourse" again.

The "A" in APCO does NOT refer to Amateur.

The "A" in SHARES does NOT refer to Amateur.

The "A" in MARS does NOT refer to Amateur.

Sure it does...to what other radio service is MARS "affiliated"
with...?!?!

FEMA, SHARES, several government agencies. :-)

See the Army Communicator write-up on Grecian Firebolt 2002
for a good example. :-)



Too bad there weren't some human relations courses in that 14 years of
night school, Lennie.

There were under California rules for the early 1960s. :-)

Some of those courses were done during the day. All for
college accreditation.

And I don't resent your efforts to be an engineer. One day you may be
one.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. :-)

Poor nursie resents the existance of anyone who has opinions
contrary to his own. The spirit of the "new amateur radio" of this
millenium. :-(

Get mental help.

Meanwhile, temper fry...

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
da CAP Ace with too much carburetor heat) sputters and foams:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/17/2004 4:45 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) writes:

In order for PRESENT DAY MARS to continue to fulfil it's federal
mission,
it is DEPENDANT upon volunteer civilian licensees of the Amatuer Radio
Service.

No...MARS can and does function by itself. It is controlled by the
military and therefore run by the military using government
radio equipment. Getting civilians involved is only part of the task.

MARS is dependent upon Amateurs to do the bulk of it's traffic.

Military police direct military traffic.

Military communications uses wide-environment government radio
equipment and military personnel to do communications.

It was true during Viet Nam, it's true today.

The Vietnam War ended in 1975. That was 29 years ago, senior.

The Internet went public in 1991. That was 13 years ago, senior.

Every government and military agency and most military units
now have websites. The modern U.S. military encourages
military personnel to use computer e-mail to message family
and friends.

The DSN (Digital Switched Network) tying U.S. installations and
government locations around the world allow easy dial-up from
the DSN to the outside telephone infrastructure.

Try to get with the modern times. Reality is all around you.

MARS has never involved "amatuer radio," only amateur radio.

Again your only defensible argument is that I transposed two letters.

That transposition is a common thing with nursie. Usually done
when very angry and outraged that anyone dare talk back to the
gunnery nurse! :-)

For information on Army MARS, see the Fort Huachuca website
and follow the links there. While Huachuca is the Military
Intelligence School Hq, Army MARS is headquartered there off
to one side.

I know you'll find this hard to believe, but life exists beyond
websites.

I am well acquainted with life. :-)

Been to Fort Huachuca, seen the Army MARS headquarters.

Been to several modern military communications locations,
seen what they have, talked to individuals there.

Reality exists beyond the tattered, dog-eared pages of old QST
issues and ARRL handbooks.

Try to experience reality, not imaginations of long ago.

Otherwise some nicely packaged editorializing by someone who is not
active
in the program and has no practical experience on the subject he's
pontificating about.

Now, now. I've been to Huachuca.

I am sure you've been lot's of places. An active imagination allows for
that.

Fort Huachuca was okay in early spring but I've heard it is uncomfortable
in mid-summer, being in Arizona. Glad I wasn't there in mid-summer.
The Military Intelligence museum wasn't built or open to visitors when I
was there and that interesting place (like the CIA museum) can only be
visited on the Internet.

Sandia Laboratories is different. But, I can't talk much about that
except that visit concerned things like SID.

I've controlled MARS transmissions.

Uh huh.

I'm glad you concede something factual. :-)

51 years ago I lucked out in my military service...(SNIP)

Here we go again...."Back at ADA......"

It could have been AGA (San Francisco) or AHA (Hawaii)
or Seattle or Manila or Okinawa or even Anchorage.

Uh huh.

Good. Another concession instead of brainless battering
against what happened before you existed.

Unless one is flag rank, it is difficult to pick and choose
where ordinary military folks get assigned. I was fortunate
in being assigned to a big-time communications center.

So was Eugene Rosenbaum. Part of the time. Gene
(N2JTV) got reassigned to Funabashi, TDY with the small
USAF radio communications station there which was not as
nice an assignment as the Hardy Barracks billet or ADA
duties.


Nursie did not exist a half century ago. He isn't in any way,
shape, or form able to conceptualize much of anything of
that time unless spoon-fed the information from some ARRL
publication.

Regardless of my birthdate, your rhetoric and spamming of the NG exists
TODAY, and it is rife with your tales of what you did five decades ago.

No, not "rife." :-) If you are trying a larger vocabulary, try to get
something somewhat close to correct...and in context.

You are trying to "poison the well" by singling out only specific
instances of what I've mentioned as to experiences and work over
the last 51+ years. Common tactic in computer-modem comms
but easily defeated in fact, made arduous only in the stubborn
insistence of the argumentative to ignore everything else and try
to beat on specifics.

Oddly, it is usually easier to reference military things of the past
due to easier access of reference information compared to civilian-
only occupations. That includes references of a public nature
such as the Pacific Stars & Stripes (see interview with staffer
Rick Chernitzer of their 10 November 2002 edition).

None of it has anything to do with Amateur Radio.

Radio is radio, regardless of the differentiation that mere human
regulation makers make of its differences.

The Pacific Stars & Stripes did not include a nice photo I made
of the MARS antenna newly installed at Hardy Barracks in
1955 (Stripes used only 6 of my photos for that Hardy retro-
spective interview). One of the two GIs shown on the cover
sheet is/was Stan Peschel who was a ham and the son of the
founder of Hypotronics of New York.

Nursie should stop trying to dictate what others said long ago
or experienced long ago...or even what they say they thought
long ago...when nursie didn't exist.

"Dictating" what you said?

Absolutely. You are outraged that anyone dare confront your
ideas and fantasies with actual, real-life experiences. The same
with several others in here.

The dictatorial attitude is fairly common, done with heckling
and name-calling and general denigration in an effort to make
a poster stop writing. Weak intimidation. Works sometimes,
but is not a guarantee of suppressing truth and reality.

All I have to do is quote it. I couldn't invent some of the silly stuff
you come up with!

It's a losing battle to keep dredging up old, lost arguments in a
newsgroup. Those can't be "won" by re-runs as if this were
summer television.

The military directives and regulations about MARS are not
"silly stuff." Those are real. The information published by the
various military branches on their MARS activities isn't "silly
stuff." Those are real.

"Silly stuff" is the exaggeration and over-emphasis on civilian
amateur radio participation - done by part-time participants in
MARS - and trying to make such "silly stuff" be the raison d'etre
(French for "reason for being") of the existance of MARS.


Nope. Only very specific amateurs. Principally those which
hang out in here trying to make noises like they are special
representatives from Newington.

The ONLY people who have ever presented themselves as "representitives
from Newington" were Ed Hare and Jon Bloom, and even then they were quite
clear
in stating that thier persoanlly held opinions did not represent the ARRL.

You forgot Jim Haynie. :-)

Not a long series of messages from Haynie but here nonetheless.

[hint: Haynie is the elected president of the ARRL. :-) ]

The PARROTING the Noble Goals as written/said by ARRL is the
very same thing as acting like League representatives.

Only YOU make that assertion, and it's still a lie.

Jim Haynie wasn't elected president of the ARRL? :-(

If anyone keeps harping on obeyance-adherence to the
standards and practices of the 1930s in amateuism of the
2000s, then they automatically join the "traditionalist-
fundamentalist" club.

Then I guess we get to heap you into that pile, Your Scumminess, since
YOU
are the ONLY one making any such assertion.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. More of that "meaningful discourse" again!

:-)

So, trying to dictate what opinions others may have again?

Not nice.

No one in this forum has made any such assertion. Even those who
staunchly support Morse Code testing have advocated advancement in the
service.

...by more and more manual telegraphy use, praising its supposed
qualities, and generally getting into silly stuff about how it's so much
"better" than any other mode. :-)

Note use of the word "service" again.

Military surrogate use. Desire to make amateur radio much
more than it is by trying to identify a hobby with military service.

Tsk, tsk. Lost focus.

I encourge you to provide even ONE quote that supports your assertion to
the contrary....

Heh heh heh. No, "encourage" is the wrong word. You
CHALLENGE. You DEMAND.

You all but hop up and down in spiteful hollering to try to
divert the discussion. :-)


Everyone MUST be Lennie, otherwise they are
"traditionalist-fundamentalist, jack-booted Nazi thugs".

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Obviously not a Jedi. Wrong connection of
metaphors. :-)

"Use the Metaphors, Luke, the Metaphors!" :-)

Nursie is into Mirror Time again, reflecting on the total
one-sided viewpoint all must have, the vista according
to Newgington. Tsk, tsk.

The regulars in this venue don't want to hear of that. It wasn't
about "amateur radio" and it hasn't been publicized in QST.

Well golly gee whiz, Your Putziness...Ya think it might be due to the
fact
that (a) it happened over FIVE decades ago, and (B) has NOTHING to do with
AMATEUR RADIO...?!?!

Nursie is an amateur. Nursie didn't exist 50 years ago.

Ergo, nursie is irrelevant? :-)

Poor nursie. Never did any big-time radio communications in
his military days...resents anyone who did.

This is a forum about AMATEUR RADIO. And yes, I did "big time radio
communication" in the military.

Yes...on par with those "hostile action" things...all conveniently
UNdetailed, no specifics, nothing but a CLAIM.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Fish story.

Poor nursie...never did any radio-electronics engineering and
resents anyone who did.

I don't resent your alleged engineering career, Lennie. I know several
electronics engineers, and they are fine fellows who make meaningful
contributions.

I'm sure you have "Jewish best friends," too. :-)

They must have made "meaningful contributions" to your knowledge
of Yiddish. :-)

You are NOT a fine fellow, and there's more than a few indicators that
your "contribution" to radio communications were limited to your few articles
sold to Ham Radio magazine. (No doubt a last resort in "getting published"
since I am sure the professional journals cut you off at the knees.)

Tsk, tsk, tsk. :-)

You can check out McGraw-Hill's old biweekly Electronics and
Designer's Casebook. You can check out Microcomputing, a former
monthly for personal computerists. You can check out BYTE
magazine as well as BYTE Books on articles concerning
circuit simulation. All reviewed and accepted by others.

You want to make a Big Thing about Ham Radio Magainze
going "defunct" back in 1990...even though HR was considered a
leader in U.S. ham periodicals for technical information...which it
was. The "defunction" was due to a shrinking ham advertising
market already begun by 1990. That shrinking is even affecting
QST. It hit 73 Magazine big time. Unlike QST which can get
support from the ARRL membership monies, HR and 73 were
independent publications whose entire income was derived by
advertising. CQ is the same way and is barely hanging on.

Even then I can't find a single example where any of your "work" was
original, nor can I find any example of where your "contributions" were
complimentary to the advancement of ANY radio communications discipline.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Having nursie as a critic is like having a blind
color coordinator for interior decoration. :-)

Try to differentiate between "compliment" and "complement."

Nursie struggles on understanding Ohm's Law of Resistance
and tries to mean-mouth things like explanations of timing
diagrams in phase-frequency detectors? :-)

Poor nursie...never could take an opposite opinion to his in
here and is bitterly resentful to anyone who had spoken out
in opposition to him.

I am only "bitterly resentful" of pathological liars and persons who
proactively seek to cause

What am I "seeking to cause?" Sentence unfinished. :-(

What are "pathological liars," nursie? Nursie no gots da
edumcation in sykology, sointanly ain't gots no certificates
(suitable for framing, hanging on da wall) as a licensed
shrink.

Nursie like to mean-mouth anyone who ain't love his one-
sided opinions. Tsk, tsk.

ACAN (Army Command-Administration Network) of the late...(SNIP) has
NOTHING to do with Amateur Radio, then or now.

Just the same, MARS was allowed to use some of ACAN's
radio circuits on HF.

How about that? By nursie logic, MARS is then NOT
amateur radio!

Must be hell when a rant is stomped on... :-)

Tsk, tsk, tsk...poor nursie wants to concentrate solely on
amateur RADIO as if it works by different physical principles
than other radio of other radio services. It doesn't. The
examples useful to amateur radio are neglected in the amateur
press, therefore nursie doesn't want to know anything except
what is spoon-fed him through hum radio magazines.

Another lie.

Nursie definition of "lie:" Anything against nursie's beliefs.

:-)

I have repeatedly stated it's not the physics.

Radio works by magic, not laws of physics? Oh, my!

It's the application.

"Rub into affected area once daily, as prescribed by
physician?" :-)

And it's too bad YOU don't avail yourself of the "hum radio magazines".
(Your true colors are showing, Scumbag.)

A long-time radio amateur used to say "hum radio." :-)

He is the same one that put tongue firmly in cheek and stated,
"Ham is the butchered meat of swine." :-)

Funny in context.

Probably a cause for thermonuclear war to nursie. :-)

Poor nursie...bitter and resentful to the last. I'll bet nursie loves
to heckle entertainers from the audience while they are trying
to entertain an audience.

If I paid money to see someone who isn't, in my opionion, entertaining, I
do one better...I get up, go the manager and get my money back on the way out
the door.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Nursie should read the entertainment reviews in
QST before going. Saves everyone time and trouble. :-)

Nursie can't lighten up. Always has to make fun of others. Not
a good mental health sign.

Untrue again.

I find it QUITE "enlightening" to keep an eye on you.

Nursie is OBSESSED. Is COMPELLED to mean-mouth
others who go against his opinions.

Sicko.

And I am still waiting for you to post your credentials to tell us what
qualified you to make determinations as to what is or isn't "good mental
health". Leafing through wifey's correspondence courses doesn't qulify.

Sicko words are sicko words to lay people, nursie.

Putz..

Well, back to nursie's name-calling again. "Meaningful discourse"
in the only way nursie can get along...dissing and cursing those
who won't agree with him.

It's not name calling if it's true. And you ARE a putz.

Tsk, tsk, nursie should have his Jewish best friends tell him
more about the Yiddish dialect-language. Needs more "meaningful
discourses" on Yiddish snarlies. :-)


Of course I could gobact through tons of YOUR "name calling" and recite
it...Or is Lennie the Liar ABOVE lving up to his own rhetoric...?!?!

First you need to explain what and how of "gobact."

Not in any dictionary I have. That word published in
QST?

Must be the "new" 'inherent good will of radio amateurs'...

You're not an Amatuer and this forum isn't regulated by Part 97 of the
FCC Rules and Regulations.

Nursie ain't no "amatuer" either. :-)

Newsgroup ain't regulated by nursie, either. [ain't that a bitch?]

:-)

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

"Len Over 21" wrote

Except for Heil, none of the regulars were involved in
any big-time radio communications experience.

Sunuvagun!

73, de Hans, K0HB

On 18 Jun 2004 19:48:44 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

See the Army Communicator write-up on Grecian Firebolt 2002
for a good example. :-)

For that matter, just turn on a shortwave receiver. Grecian Firebolt
2004 is being conducted as I type this, and will continue until some
time in August.

73 DE John D. Kasupski
Tonawanda, New York, USA
Amateur Radio (KC2HMZ), HF/VHF/UHF Monitoring (KNY2VS)
Member ARATS, ARES, RACES, WUN

"Len Over 21" wrote

Except for Heil, none of the regulars were involved in
any big-time radio communications experience.

Sunuvagun!

73, de Hans, K0HB

In article et, "KØHB"
writes:

"Len Over 21" wrote

Except for Heil, none of the regulars were involved in
any big-time radio communications experience.

Sunuvagun!

73, de Hans, K0HB

...strange echo in here...must be very sporadic B layer again...:-)

LHA / WMD

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

On 18 Jun 2004 19:48:44 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

See the Army Communicator write-up on Grecian Firebolt 2002
for a good example. :-)

For that matter, just turn on a shortwave receiver. Grecian Firebolt
2004 is being conducted as I type this, and will continue until some
time in August.

Interesting! :-)

Frequencies?

In article et, "KØHB"
writes:

"Len Over 21" wrote

Except for Heil, none of the regulars were involved in
any big-time radio communications experience.

Sunuvagun!

One of the Armenian judges, who had a sore throat (couldn't chant)
and who broke all the strings on his balalaika told me that... :-)


Better a Sunuvagun than a Son Of a Beeper... :-)

Which one of super chief's ships had over 30 HF transmitters,
and all of them 1 KW or higher?

Beep beep.

LHA / WMD