In article , Mike Coslo
writes (under " Able Baker Charlie" thread):

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

snip

There are all sorts of reasons to be involved in a newsgroup. Some of
us like to post to exchange knowledge, some to debate, and others to
have an adventure - using other posters as pro or antagonists in a sort
of text based adventure game.

Good precis, Mike. However, there's one group left out from this
venue, the Traditionalist-Fundamentalist who has adopted a very
rigid set of geas set out to cleanse a personal involvement with
an avocational radio activity. ("geas" refers to magical gimmicks
set to keep devils out of a local territory)

With the different personalities involved, the games can get pretty
interesting and funny, or sometimes they can become boring and
repetitive. The MARS is Ham radio stuff is a good example of the latter.

Agreed. But, the "MARS is amateur radio" statement is an
example of not only a Traditionalist-Fundamentalist but one who
wants to make a hobby into a surrogate of a military life, of
rigid obeyance of some kind of "orders" from a fantasy of what
a hobby really is...and then fails to note the existance and the
raison d'etre of that particular originally-military radio service.

MARS was originally conceived (under the previous AARS) to
get radio amateurs involved with the U.S. Army communications
of 1925. Comms of any radio service of 1925 were rather
simple. Even the Army admitted that. The AARS never grew to
be a big thing and WW2 put a halt on everything amateur insofar
as operations. There's not much about "phone patches" as a
goodwill effort to give servicemen a link with home through
amateur radio prior to 1942... :-)

During the Cold War times, phone patches, whether through
MARS or individual hams, were very good for boosting morale,
especially for those stuck in so many foreign places. It hit a
high point with the Vietnam War, the southeast Asian MARS
stations handling up to 42,000 phone patches a month up to
1970. That's referenced at the Army's Center For Military
History (CMH) and available for download by anyone. [I gave
the link in here]

But, the Vietnam War ended 29 years ago, almost a generation
and a half in the past. MARS still has the task of involving
civilians with military radio but MARS has, for a long time,
changed its mission to be a true auxilliary radio service in the
military, that of being an affiliate communications service with
other U.S. government radio services. The one-month exercise
two years ago of Grecian Firebolt 2002 showed that MARS
does function quite well on its own without civilian radio amateurs
to fulfill its mission.

The existance and definition of MARS is covered by publicly-
available documents. However, the image in the minds of many
is solely from amateur publications (who overemphasize ham
involvement relative to the bigger mission picture) and that
image is about three decades out of date.

If a poster is the type that is trying to antagonize others - that is
to say one that is using the group in the text adventure mode - he or
she does not want to get people so angry that they don't respond. That
would be losing the game. This player will want to be antagonistic of
course, but will want to allow other posters to stay just this side of
filtering or ignoring him or her.

Some have their minds made up and will never change. :-)

In here, several operate slightly differently in that perceived personal
"honor" is involved. They say something wrong or make an error and
then refuse to admit it until pinned against several walls and had it
rubbed all over them. :-)

That applies on any subject in any computer-modem venue, was so
even back in the late 1970s on ARPANET...then the original
USENET (probably the worst are academics not yet risen to their
full titled heights, heh heh)...continued on into BBSs and now the
Internet.

Amateur radio in general seems to be one of the most conservative
of all radio services...plus the fact that most of the hobbyists are
quite unaware of what goes on in other radio services. Amateur
radio publications seldom mention other radio services in the USA.
As a result there is a great deal of insularity (a sort of "dielectric
materialism") which, in turns, breeds even more conservatism.

Most interesting, that conservatism. Radio communications involves
the sharing of information. Radio does it very fast, yet the technology
advancements are all coming from the designer-manufacturers.

Some here filter Len, but enough do not that he finds a steady stream
of willing participants in his game.

The regulars are a very, very tiny percentage of the entire hum radio
licensees...and they seem to be staunchly, archly, embedded-in-old-
concept holes in the ground on what amateur radio "should be." Not
a good venue to discuss anything but hidebound status-quoism.

Those who aren't in agreement with keeping things absolutely the
same as when those olde-tyme hammes got their beloved licenses
is in for a rough go. :-)

Face it, he is good at it. It may not be what you are in here for, but
he succeeds in his game.

It may be a game to others, Mike, but it is a lunchtime amusement for
me. :-)

In one way, it is fun to poke holes in others' faulty concepts such as
telegraphy and the Absolute Need to test all licensees for that ability
forever and ever into the end of time in order to invade their precious
HF turf! :-)

51 years ago I lucked out in my military service and got stationed at
a major communications facility. That changed my concepts of what
radio communications was about. Practically a wholesale revision,
having had little exposure prior, all from amateur publications.
The Army, the Navy, the Air Force just didn't use any telegraphy then
for fixed-point to fixed-point radio communications. They had not
done so since WW2. The USN depended on on-line cryptographic
communications in the fleet, on cruisers and heavier class ships back
in 1940 (that's how the USN could coordinate movements to engage
in the Battle of Midway). That crypto messaging was by RTTY, not
manual telegraphy. The "Sigaba" crypto TTY system was never
compromised.

The regulars in this venue don't want to hear of that. It wasn't
about "amateur radio" and it hasn't been publicized in QST. Except
for Heil, none of the regulars were involved in any big-time radio
communications experience. As a result, many are openly
antagonistic against anyone who has done so and try to divert the
thread into claims that I "embellish" my "CV," tooting my own horn
so to speak :-) Really no. I'm trying to point out that "CW" was
already being downsized a half century ago and its use is constantly
decreasing until it has virtually disappeared for communications
everywhere but in amateur radio.

Note this does not apply to the strange fringe postings that appear to
be personal battles, such as the one that Dave seems involved in with
some hams in his locale. That is just really wierd stuff.

The true antagonistic poster seldom gets much response. Those get
a large charge out of saying the worst things about another. That's
part of the time-distance isolation "safety factor" for them in computer-
modem communications. They can get away with it! :-)

What gets "weird" (or 'wired') is when another replies with correct
facts and Strong response. The original antagonists almost go
berserk. :-) [see the posts of the one who likes to use the word
"putz"] The original antagonists Hate that sort of thing. It spoils
their private little sociopathy game they so enjoy. :-)

You
(or anyone here) know what will happen when you rise to the bait, you
know pretty much what the resulting exchange will be, and yet it is
irresistable.

Naw, it's totally resistible. And predictable.

And yet you are now involved once more!

He can't help it. His "honor" is at stake...someone put a stake through
a vital part back when he was trying to peddle Uber-status-quoism all
about keeping amateur radio forever locked into the old standards and
practices.

It may be an "evangelical" kind of thing. Or just brainwashed syndrome.

Ethnic cleansing must be done, impure concepts washed away.

This is no small accomplishment. I for one have to respect that.

I don't.

You don't have to, that much is true.

Life is tough and then you newsgroup... :-)

"Sine die" - someone turned off the audio oscillator...

QED is not one of the "Q codes" in telegraphy.

Back to trying to find out what's holding me down in my search for
anti-gravity...