In article , Mike Coslo writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

"do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or
what
will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency
simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of
other goals.

Sure. And will the local mall allow you to run ops all night?

Not around here!

I'm a firm believer in a balanced approach. Our FD site is in a
stunningly beautiful field with plenty of trees and a million dollar
view. There is a picnic area about 1500 feet away, and ball fields
tennis courts and soccer fields east and west. It's a huge site,
probably bigger than a square mile. We get a fair amount of onlookers
that were out for a walk with the family or boyfriend/girlfriend. We
could possibly get more exposure by running it downtown or in the City
high school parking lot, but no thanks.

Exactly.


Here's a scenario for ya:

Months in advance
.....

You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning
experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably
more
than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried
such a plan cold turkey.

That would be kind of fun. But you're right, too many people would hate
it.

Unless it were brought about very gradually.

Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can
do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that?


And if you are, how will you deal with the inevitable disputes that will
arise?
Remember, these folks are all volunteers, bringing their own equipment with
them.

Yaknow, those disputes are part of the training too! The frayed nerves
are part of the training, even. I note a short frayed nerve session
about 10 minutes before FD or any other big event. Player a gets a
little irritated with player B. Knowing about that allows us to smooth
it over before it gets big.

Excellent point!

There are so many things about FD that are training us without us even
consciously thinking about them.

Even something as basic as exactly what to bring along to set up a complete
station. ("Coax? I thought *you* brought the coax!")


Well, no one
wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they
ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for
nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make
absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money
every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't
they?


bwaahaahaa - great story, Mike.

Zey haz no money to buy zee toyz they dezire no more!

I'm not one to gloat, but this was such a case of poetic justice and
Karma that I have to, just a teeny tiny bit. But I have to balance that
with sympathy for their plight now. They were willingly stupid, and are
paying the price.

Reality doesn't care what they believe.

I did want to note that there were a few people in the club that *were*

willing helpers. They were my core supporters. And when I left, they
left too. So all that were left were the lazy ones. Evolution will
extrat it's price eventually.

When I was a small child, the local parish had bingo night, raffles and an
annual fair. People came - including non-Catholics! - and dropped some dollars
and had a good time.

Then a new monsignor showed up and put an end to all of it. Thought people
should just drop the money in the basket every week. Guess what - they didn't.

73 de Jim, N2EY

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Hash: SHA1

"N2EY" == n2ey writes:

[...]

N2EY Here's a scenario for ya:

[... a fabulous scenario elided ...]

N2EY Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to
N2EY be doing until shortly before FD. To more realistically
N2EY simulate, some very good resources (rigs, antennas, generators,
N2EY etc.) might be left completely unused while less than perfect
N2EY substitutes are pressed into service.

Oh, I would so totally sign up for this. Wow. I wish my club were
brave enough to try this.

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Ryan, KC8PMX wrote:

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...

Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: "Ryan, KC8PMX"
Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands.

I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics

thru

my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather
prominent.


It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call
when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call
of
K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi
hi




Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner.

Field

day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.

How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing?


No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree
with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am
not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been
chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county
(as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends
(passing
by the school that is).

That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for
your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way,
I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike.

And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out!

Believe me, that is in the works.



Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his
absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman?

No, apparently only the vice-pres can do that....


Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we
set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications.
Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know
when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond
and
deal with it as best as we can.

In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that
to be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that
emergency
would occur.......

Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be
putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several
days without sleep. You may be injured.

Now thats going to extremes, but in reality, still, right now we have up to
a year to choose the sites we operate for F.D., and like I said, some places
might be less than desired.....


Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have
a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency
condx.

Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is
going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain
transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or
anything.

The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about
emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Dunno where tha hyper
accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from.


Well hell, I can *think* about emergency ops all day/year long..... but it
is NOT a simulation at this point from what I have seen locally of at least
a dozen local area groups..... Its merely a "contest" but doing it from
outside instead of indoors.




Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director
decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.

Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can
do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that?


Yep, and an assistant EC right now.



Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our
biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was
doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a
LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me,
supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My
only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my
position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice
president.


The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too
much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. Well, no one
wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they
ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for
nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make
absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money
every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't
they?

Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they
are doing, do better.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Yeah, unfortunately we have our own set of problems..... including lack of
participation..... I feel your pain brother.

Ryan KC8PMX

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
...

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not
agree
with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am
not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been
chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the
county
(as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends
(passing
by the school that is).


Perhaps he/she couldn't get permission to set up anywhere else. Although
if
that was the case, they should have communicated better.

Actually, there were a ton of possibilities...... Including many more
"optimum" spots than where it was.

Ryan KC8PMX

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree
with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am
not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been
chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county
(as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends
(passing
by the school that is).

That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for
your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way,
I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike.

Comes down to "do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or
what
will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency
simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of
other
goals.

And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out!

Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his
absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD
Chairman?

Classic "bell the cat" problem.

Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation.

That's your vision of it, Ryan. Others see FD very differently.

The good thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways.
That's why
it's so popular - brings out more hams than any other domestic operating
activity.

The bad thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's
why
it can be such a source of disagreement.

Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where
we
set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications.

It's fundamentally a skills and planning exercise. It's one thing to talk
about
setting up a station quickly in an unprepared location, and another thing
to
actually *do* it. Operating skills get practiced. Teamwork and learning to
deal
with volunteers, both as a leader and as a team member.

Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know
when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond
and
deal with it as best as we can.

But you guys have training sessions, right?

Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that.


In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that
to
be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that
emergency
would occur.......

Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be
putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several
days without sleep. You may be injured.

Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have
a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency
condx.

You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of
them.

I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be
simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can get
permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency.



Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is
going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain
transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or
anything.

Maybe. Or it might go the other way - you may be asked to go to a certain
location and bring everything you need along.

The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about
emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops.

Bingo!

Dunno where tha hyper
accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from.

Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director
decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.

The trick is to balance all the different aspects.

Here's a scenario for ya:

Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill
out a
form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD.
Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes
(equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.)

The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts
together a Field Day master plan.

48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed
orders"
which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with
them
and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up
at X
on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team
running station S, bring a this list of equipment..."

Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the
forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it
with
you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability -
although
that sort of thing often happens anyway.

Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing
until
shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good
resources
(rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while
less
than perfect substitutes are pressed into service.

You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning
experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably
more
than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club
tried
such a plan cold turkey.

Actually, with a little bit of fine tuning, I believe that would be even
better than my idea. My idea was that we WILL know which weekend, but the
location won't be announced till either that morning OR the night before,
and we have to adapt. And that location being decided (where possible) by
the county EC/RO. Actually in our specific case, we hold a regular net on
Thursdays, so that would be the best I would imagine......



Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can
do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that?

And if you are, how will you deal with the inevitable disputes that will
arise?
Remember, these folks are all volunteers, bringing their own equipment
with
them.

Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our
biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was
doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a
LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me,
supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My
only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my
position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice
president.

The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too
much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member.

You said the big bad C word - commitment.

Well, no one
wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they
ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for
nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make
absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money
every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't
they?

bwaahaahaa - great story, Mike.

Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they
are doing, do better.

Most of all, understand that FD is very different things to very different
people.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Ryan
KC8PMX

"William" wrote in message
om...
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: "Ryan, KC8PMX"
Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands.

I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those
phonetics
thru
my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather
prominent.

It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call
when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call
of
K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi
hi

Can't we all just get along?

Well, I guess I have never been a conformist, or one to be a "bump on the
log" type as I see so many are..... LOL

I just hate my suffix.... never liked it from the start, but never gotten
around to changing it either through vanity call process or simple
reassignment through the pool.


Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner.
Field
day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there
is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.

How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing?

No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree
with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am
not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been
chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county
(as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends
(passing
by the school that is).

Let me guess. He's an Extra?

Nope, but license class has nothing to do with it.....



Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we
set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications.
Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know
when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond
and
deal with it as best as we can.

Should be points for real emergency locations rather than setting up
at KOA.

Well, we can speculate as to "where" a potential emergency will happen till
the cows come home. The issue I had at hand was merely the choice of
location.... its SO buried from the general public, the PR value was not
worth a damn for our FD.


In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that
to be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that
emergency
would occur.......

Hmmmm.

Yeah.... its not like you can plan for when your house will burn down or you
get into a bad wreck, or whatever.




Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director
decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.

Elevate this idea to ARRL. County EC selects operating locations.
Keeps secret. Makes the assignment 2 hours before test starts.


The only glitch I could see there, is obviously for counties without an EC.
Someone else would have to be qualified to choose then...... Not sure who,
but I am sure someone could figure that one out.

Extra points, of course.

If that plan is followed, of course.

Ryan KC8PMX

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


But you guys have training sessions, right?

Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that.

Well, there you go. For a lot of hams, Field Day is their only and/or
first training.

You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of
them.

I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be
simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can get
permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency.

The question is, what constitutes a "realistic" location? Depending on
the type of emergency, all sorts of sites are realistic.

For example, look at the search for shuttle parts. People were spread
out over a large area, and needed communications over relatively short
paths but in many directions - in rural areas, mostly.

One of the biggest challenges of FD has become finding a site.
Consider what we want to do:

- Make noise all night long

- Put wires and tubing high in the air during a time of year when
thunderstorms are common

- Pound things into the ground, set up tents, cook food, etc.

- Be away from noise generators like power lines.

Plus there's the whole liability question...

Here's a scenario for ya:

Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill
out a
form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD.
Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes
(equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.)

The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts
together a Field Day master plan.

48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed
orders"
which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with
them
and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up
at X
on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team
running station S, bring a this list of equipment..."

Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the
forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it
with
you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability -
although
that sort of thing often happens anyway.

Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing
until
shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good
resources
(rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while
less
than perfect substitutes are pressed into service.

You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning
experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably
more
than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club
tried
such a plan cold turkey.

Actually, with a little bit of fine tuning, I believe that would be even
better than my idea.

Thanks!

My idea was that we WILL know which weekend, but the
location won't be announced till either that morning OR the night before,
and we have to adapt.

That's in my idea too. The date would be about the only thing known in
advance outside of the planning committee.

And that location being decided (where possible) by
the county EC/RO. Actually in our specific case, we hold a regular net on
Thursdays, so that would be the best I would imagine......

There ya go. And the committee could toss in all sorts of surprises:
Somebody brings a nice new rig, makes 100 contacts, and then a
committee person suddenly slaps a red post-it on the thing. Which
means it's busted and cannot be used for X hours. Team has to
improvise another rig and get back on the air ASAP.

Or maybe the announcement is made on Thursday night that *all*
antennas have to be homebrewed at the site, starting no earlier than
24 hours before FD. Bring all the coax, wire, rope, connectors, line,
insulators, tubing and PVC you want, but everything in the antennas
has to be built from-scratch.

As I said before, if you drop something like this on most people
cold-turkey they'll rebel or simply vote with their feet. But if
they're brought to it gradually...

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
m...
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


But you guys have training sessions, right?

Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that.

Well, there you go. For a lot of hams, Field Day is their only and/or
first training.

You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of
them.

I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be
simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can
get
permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency.

The question is, what constitutes a "realistic" location? Depending on
the type of emergency, all sorts of sites are realistic.

For example, look at the search for shuttle parts. People were spread
out over a large area, and needed communications over relatively short
paths but in many directions - in rural areas, mostly.

One of the biggest challenges of FD has become finding a site.
Consider what we want to do:

- Make noise all night long

- Put wires and tubing high in the air during a time of year when
thunderstorms are common

- Pound things into the ground, set up tents, cook food, etc.

- Be away from noise generators like power lines.

Plus there's the whole liability question...

Here's a scenario for ya:

Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to
fill
out a
form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for
FD.
Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes

(equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.)

The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people
puts
together a Field Day master plan.

48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed
orders"
which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring
with
them
and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as
"show up
at X
on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the
team
running station S, bring a this list of equipment..."

Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though
the
forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it
with
you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability -
although
that sort of thing often happens anyway.

Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be
doing
until
shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good
resources
(rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused
while
less
than perfect substitutes are pressed into service.

You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great
learning
experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half
(probably
more
than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club
tried
such a plan cold turkey.

Actually, with a little bit of fine tuning, I believe that would be even
better than my idea.

Thanks!

My idea was that we WILL know which weekend, but the
location won't be announced till either that morning OR the night
before,
and we have to adapt.

That's in my idea too. The date would be about the only thing known in
advance outside of the planning committee.

And that location being decided (where possible) by
the county EC/RO. Actually in our specific case, we hold a regular net
on
Thursdays, so that would be the best I would imagine......

There ya go. And the committee could toss in all sorts of surprises:
Somebody brings a nice new rig, makes 100 contacts, and then a
committee person suddenly slaps a red post-it on the thing. Which
means it's busted and cannot be used for X hours. Team has to
improvise another rig and get back on the air ASAP.

Or maybe the announcement is made on Thursday night that *all*
antennas have to be homebrewed at the site, starting no earlier than
24 hours before FD. Bring all the coax, wire, rope, connectors, line,
insulators, tubing and PVC you want, but everything in the antennas
has to be built from-scratch.

As I said before, if you drop something like this on most people
cold-turkey they'll rebel or simply vote with their feet. But if
they're brought to it gradually...

73 de Jim, N2EY


True, as it stands right now, it looks like the group is gonna splinter off
into two distinct groups. So, probably next year you guys can work 2
different Midland County, Michigan stations. The "old school" group will do
things their way, and the "new school" group can do things their own way
too.... Almost sounds like a second club overall forming for this county
instead of just the one.


Ryan
KC8PMX

"N2EY" wrote in message
m...
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


But you guys have training sessions, right?

Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that.

Well, there you go. For a lot of hams, Field Day is their only and/or
first training.

You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of
them.

I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be
simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can
get
permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency.

The question is, what constitutes a "realistic" location? Depending on
the type of emergency, all sorts of sites are realistic.

For example, look at the search for shuttle parts. People were spread
out over a large area, and needed communications over relatively short
paths but in many directions - in rural areas, mostly.

One of the biggest challenges of FD has become finding a site.
Consider what we want to do:

- Make noise all night long

- Put wires and tubing high in the air during a time of year when
thunderstorms are common

- Pound things into the ground, set up tents, cook food, etc.

- Be away from noise generators like power lines.

Plus there's the whole liability question...

I agree with ya on the liability issue.... There is a clear difference
between gaining access in a true emergency versus gaining access to a
property for an alleged "training exersize." In a real emergency, especially
one involved under that marshall law concept, you could be placed anywhere
the command structure wants you to set up, regardless of property owner's
permission or not.

I do have to base the next line or two by stating it to be relating to where
I live locally, but I beleive that logically we as ARES/RACES would most
likely be set up in or at places like county/city owned
properties/buildings, quite possibly hospitals, law enforcement/fire/ems
buildings, the red cross etc. Logic would dictate to me that as a reasonable
guess as to where we personally would most likely set up in a real
emergency. (as one larger group OR as individual smaller stations)

Ryan KC8PMX

In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes:

it looks like the group is gonna splinter off
into two distinct groups.

Happens all the time. Some "clubs" exist solely to put on Field Day.

So, probably next year you guys can work 2
different Midland County, Michigan stations.

More points for me. That's a good thing.

The "old school" group will do
things their way, and the "new school" group can do things their own way
too.... Almost sounds like a second club overall forming for this county
instead of just the one.

Better than fighting. And often both groups learn something in the process!

73 de Jim, N2EY