N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Make a question pool large enough, and there is no problem.



Sure there is.


I dunno, Jim. I can read a book, or I can look at a question pool. It's
all the same to me.


To you, yes. But to others, it may be very different.

Well, I only know how my mind works.

The exact process I used for getting my license was:

First I took an online test. First couple times did just awful. In both
General and Extra, I started out at about the 50 percent level.

Downloaded the question pool. Used it as reading material on the throne
and around the house. But mostly as a post-test reference

Continued taking the online tests. For every question I got wrong on
the tests, I researched out the answer. Sources were reference books and
the 'net.

Continued until I scored 100 percent pretty consistently.

Which do you *really* think requires more understanding of the mateiral and the
concepts behind it - a test where you don't know the exact Q&A beforehand, or
one where you do?

All the same to me. And I think my method above says something more.
Being smart is not necessarily knowing something - it is knowing what
you know, knowing what you don't know, and knowing where to get the
answer so you *do* know.


If you make questions up, you have to have a
reference for them someplace. Is it in a book? fine, study the book
then. Is it a question pool? Fine also.


*If* you only care about right answers rather than understanding.

Not really. I saw a electrician licensing test book with question pool
recently. Lives depend on the electrician doing safe and proper work.
and they are depending on the Electrician knowing.

Rote memorization? Seriously if anyone rote memorizes the General and
Extra tests, they are very intelligent and very stupid at the same time.


Depends on the person and the subject. In some areas, the only way to know the
material is rote memorization. (How long is a ham license term?)

Of course, but that is diluting the issue. No other way to learn that
stuff.


And they will have a few curves thrown at them at test time.


How? The test questions are all in the pool. Read the pool and you have seen
every possible question and answer.

All my tests have been from the question pool, so it is something I
have some advantage over many people here. Actual knowledge rather than
opinion.

The answers are not always in the same order as they are in the pool. I
experienced this in my Extra test. And if the person knows the text of
the answer, they almost certainly *know* the answer. That takes a level
of understanding much greater than "This question's answer is "D"


Heck, download the pool as a Word or text document, edit out the wrong answers,
print the questions up on 3x5 cards and just read the dern things while in the
room of many doors.

Remember the game "Trivial Pursuit"? When it was a big deal ~20 years ago, I
used to carry a handful of the cards in my pocket and read them at odd times
(on the subway, waiting for the elevator, etc.) Didn't consciously try to
memorize them, just read them. I was soon nearly unbeatable - as long as the
game used the Original edition cards.

The question pools have far fewer questions than the Trivial Pursuit cards did.


A thought: If a question pool is cheating, then a book with the answers
in the test in the course of reading is cheating too



Question pools don't equal cheating unless they are supposed to be
secret.


So...

The only way that *some* Hams will be happy is if the test questions
have answers in no book - that is to say that all testing will have to
be in the form of basic research - the new ham will have to advance the
state of the art in his/her admission test.


bwaaahaahaa


Otherwise the new ham is cheating and isn't as good as the old ham. 8^)


(I just recently had to listen to an old timer in person on a tirade
about the worthless new hams - again.)



Why did you have to listen? I find turning on my heel and walking away
does wonders. Or, looking the ranter straight in the eye and saying,
"You're just wrong...." (lookit how the oldest ranter here on rrap
reacts to being told he's wrong - which he often is....)

Well, it wasn't a case where I could or should have turned away. I
supposed I could have kicked the person out, but I also needed the help
he was giving on a task. Real life has a habit of modifying our
behavior. Plus ut wasn't a personal attack. Most hams I know think I'm a
relative old timer. But its still irritating.


Well, he was just plain wrong. The test is just one part of being qualified.

Of course. But sometimes we have to work with people that are just
plain wrong.

Every once in a while, I'll mention something like "Hey, I resemble
that remark!"


There was an old song called "Patches" that you may recall from high school
days. Man is remembering how tough he had it as a kid. Among the folks I grew
up with, we still use the line

"And then the rains came, and washed all the crops away"

whenever somebody starts geezering.

hehe, I used to do a good rendition of the line after that - "And at
the age of thirteen, I felt I had the weight of the whooole world on my
shoulders" 8^)


Besides, what it all comes down to is this:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

Just a thought here... If we were to say, go to a book oriented
reference for the tests, I can assure you that it would be no better
than the pool based system.


Sure it would. But we're not going to go back to secret tests. Not gonna happen
- at least not anytime soon. Why get in a lather over it?


Thousands and thousands of college students
prove this on a daily basis, pulling all-nighters, cramming to take
their tests. All the crammed knowledge is placed in shirt term memory,
to quickly fade after the test is over.


That only works for some people. And recall that for most of those students,
the cramming is not the only preparation done.

Maybe the answer is to have on on one testing, where the test
administrator comes to love with you for a week, to see if you *really*
have knowledge of Ham radio....hehe.


If the test administrator looks like Heidi Klum, or if I get to be *her* test
administrator, I'll volunteer to put the system throuigh its paces. Heck, I'll
sign up for two weeks......

Hey, maybe my dum typo was Karma! This might be the way to increase the
numbers of Hams! People would demand to be retested every year or so.
And the YL's could pick their own instructors........

- Mike KB3EIA -