(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
S. Hanrahan wrote in message . ..
On 2 Aug 2004 08:25:26 -0700, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

Wires for any type of communications purposes are already on their way
into history. BPL was stillborn from the gitgo.

The future is satellite. Wi-Fi will just be a fad like the laserdisc.

Wi-fi is already much bigger than the laserdisc was and it's growing
exponentially. The laserdisc died on the stores shelves from the
gitgo.

Probably not - that is, if we're talking about customers directly
accessing the
satellite.

It's the cost of consumer direct access to the satellites which is the
show-stopper and I don't see it coming down to dialup costs for years
if ever. 80% of the U.S. consumers with access are still using dialup
connections and most of 'em are not going to move to broadband until
the costs get a lot closer to dialup than they are.

While there's definitely a future for satellite comms, the
"last mile" problem combined with the enormous bandwidth of fiber
limits its usefulness as a general-purpose broadband access method.

Say you orbit a new, state of the art satellite. How much bandwidth
can it provide to how many customers?

A whole bunch. Even the old birds which have been up for years can
repeat something like 900 TV channels and those are not considered
high-capacity satellites.

Compare that to what is
available in a single fiber. Also remember that once the duct is in
place, pulling another fiber isn't that expensive, and that new
technologies permit more bandwidth in existing fibers.

What "ducts"?? There aren't any ducts running into farms and vacation
lodges out in the boonies. They'll have the last mile problem for
years to come. Until the phone companies replace their twisted-pair
wiring with cable, fiber optic and otherwise.

w3rv

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
S. Hanrahan wrote in message
...
On 2 Aug 2004 08:25:26 -0700, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

Wires for any type of communications purposes are already on their way
into history. BPL was stillborn from the gitgo.

The future is satellite. Wi-Fi will just be a fad like the laserdisc.

Wi-fi is already much bigger than the laserdisc was and it's growing
exponentially. The laserdisc died on the stores shelves from the
gitgo.

For reasons listed in another post.

Probably not - that is, if we're talking about customers directly
accessing the satellite.

It's the cost of consumer direct access to the satellites which is the
show-stopper and I don't see it coming down to dialup costs for years
if ever. 80% of the U.S. consumers with access are still using dialup
connections and most of 'em are not going to move to broadband until
the costs get a lot closer to dialup than they are.

Absolutely. This is where DSL can really get the market, because with DSL you
don't need a second phone line.

While there's definitely a future for satellite comms, the
"last mile" problem combined with the enormous bandwidth of fiber
limits its usefulness as a general-purpose broadband access method.

Say you orbit a new, state of the art satellite. How much bandwidth
can it provide to how many customers?

A whole bunch. Even the old birds which have been up for years can
repeat something like 900 TV channels and those are not considered
high-capacity satellites.

That means 900 customers can have 6 MHz of bandwidth each. Or maybe 5400 can
have 1 MHz each.

When the satellite repeats a channel, it doesn't matter how many people watch
it. Internet bandwidth is a completely different beast.

Compare that to what is
available in a single fiber. Also remember that once the duct is in
place, pulling another fiber isn't that expensive, and that new
technologies permit more bandwidth in existing fibers.

What "ducts"?? There aren't any ducts running into farms and vacation
lodges out in the boonies. They'll have the last mile problem for
years to come. Until the phone companies replace their twisted-pair
wiring with cable, fiber optic and otherwise.

I meant ducts that carry it to within a mile of the customer. Ducts that go
across the country, etc. Satellites can't create another RF spectrum.

Fiber and Wi-Fi...watch out...

One caveat!

A lot of folks are setting up their own little wireless networks. The stuff is
becoming cheaper than the cable it replaces!

But not enough folks understand the need to encrypt. Without good encryption of
your network, anybody can drive by with a lapper and access your network - and
your hard drives, etc. Your internet firewall won't help because your network
thinks the invader is *inside* your network, not outside. You need for the
network itself to be encrypted.

Where's my RJ-45 plugs?

73 de Jim, N2EY

73 de Jim, N2EY

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"N2EY" == n2ey writes:

[...]

N2EY One caveat!

N2EY A lot of folks are setting up their own little wireless
N2EY networks. The stuff is becoming cheaper than the cable it
N2EY replaces!

And for good reason. In my new location, I'm terrified to drill
through the walls (it's an old *solid* house that predates cheap
sheetrock by decades) but I've no trouble using wireless.

N2EY But not enough folks understand the need to encrypt. Without
N2EY good encryption of your network, anybody can drive by with a
N2EY lapper and access your network - and your hard drives, etc. Your
N2EY internet firewall won't help because your network thinks the
N2EY invader is *inside* your network, not outside. You need for the
N2EY network itself to be encrypted.

If someone truly sets up their network in this manner, they are truly
running a serious risk, as you describe. I've just moved, so I have
to reinstall my network, and it will actually be set up with two
wireless access points: one for the "inside", which will be
MAC-restricted and locked down with WEP (until my operating system
fully supports TKIP in which case I'll go up to that protocol), and
one which is "outside" for any and all comers to sit in the nearby
park and reach the internet. No traffic goes to the inside from the
outside, and both sides can see the internet, so life is good.

N2EY Where's my RJ-45 plugs?

Put some time and effort into understanding exactly how to make it all
work properly, and you'll find that you need fewer RJ-45 plugs.

N2EY 73 de Jim, N2EY

Oh, and I get that you're not talking about setting up your own
network in the encryption-free manner in which you describe. I'm just
trying to show that there are many good ways to make wireless work
such that you can be friendly to your neighbors while protecting your
assets.

Jack.
(one of those paranoid computer security types)
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:


Say you orbit a new, state of the art satellite. How much bandwidth
can it provide to how many customers?

A whole bunch. Even the old birds which have been up for years can
repeat something like 900 TV channels and those are not considered
high-capacity satellites.

That means 900 customers can have 6 MHz of bandwidth each. Or maybe 5400 can
have 1 MHz each.

That's with antique satellites, not with the monster birds being
tossed up these days each of which which has orders of magnitude more
capacity than the TV repeaters.

When the satellite repeats a channel, it doesn't matter how many
people watch
it. Internet bandwidth is a completely different beast.

Welp, I read recently that several new satellite ISPs have jumped into
that biz so common sense indicates that they have to have unused
bandwidth available in copious supply or they wouldn't have opened
shop. Fact is that the demand for sattelite access is very
cost-limited which automatically keeps the need for bandwidth down to
manageable levels. Sattelite comms will continue to grow in markets
where the users are 'way out in the boonies where cables will never go
and they don't have any options and there are plenty of those. Then
comes the huge and growing market for sattelite mobile comms. And the
consumer market populated by folk who just like working the birds.

It appears to me that in the limit and ignoring some obvious realities
the Wi-fi vs. Satellite market competition won't be a competition. By
their very natures Wi-fi or some evloutionary form of Wi-fi will grab
the big pieces of the light-duty consumer and business travel markets
and the sattelites will continue to carry the heavy duty business
mobile and remote access comms.

And all this with the monster volume of *really* broadband military
sattelite comms sharing the RF spectrum with the commercials.

Compare that to what is
available in a single fiber. Also remember that once the duct is in
place, pulling another fiber isn't that expensive, and that new
technologies permit more bandwidth in existing fibers.

What "ducts"?? There aren't any ducts running into farms and vacation
lodges out in the boonies. They'll have the last mile problem for
years to come. Until the phone companies replace their twisted-pair
wiring with cable, fiber optic and otherwise.

I meant ducts that carry it to within a mile of the customer.

Many people in this country live twenty and more miles from anything
even vaguely resembling a cable. Wi-fi is never gonna reach them.

Ducts that go
across the country, etc. Satellites can't create another RF spectrum.

What's a "duct" anyway? How many of those are running all over North
Dakota and Idaho??

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
N2EY wrote:
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:


In the beginning of my problems the local power company sent out a
engineer.


A 'professional'...;-)


After about an hour of showing him the racket, discussing the levels and
how
it trashed the signals, he asked "what happens when you disconnect your
antenna". I replied with "the noise goes away". His reply "well there
it
is, just leave the antenna off".


I am...speechless.

Well he was right! 8^P

.....It hurts when I do this, Doc!.....

Some places idea of customer service is to try to convince the customer
that the problem is the customer's fault.

Dan's experience is about as Brazen as I've ever heard of tho'


My next step was a letter to the FCC and
the Public Service Commission.


I hope that when whatever resolution is had, that they will remember
that idiot Engineer.


- mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
N2EY wrote:
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

Some places idea of customer service is to try to convince the customer
that the problem is the customer's fault.

That was the case in Ohio when my 5-watts to a 1/4 wave vertical was getting
into one of Warner Cable's premium movie channels (using 146 MHz) - and
amplified up their line. I called Warner's customer service and complained
that their cable was leaking. The customer service person then informed me
that the problem was my antenna was leaking. I told her that's what antennas
are supposed to do; a letter from the FCC to Warner got the leaks taken care
of.

ak