In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Wi-Fi "nodes" need the same cable or
fiber optic feeds as BPL does but then the costs of implementation go
'way down below the costs of implementing BPL. BPL is a hard-wired
very localized system with toxic side effects. A single Wi-Fi node can
serve dozens of users simultaneously over some pretty big areas
without any wires. Huge pluses vs. BPL.

I think we are in agreement. The costs of the feed would be the
same, the costs of the "modems" would be similar.

Maybe. A BPL modem has to be across the AC line, which brings in a whole bunch
of safety issues.

The big difference
is that Wi-Fi should be able to handle much more bandwidth in the part
between the individual Wi-Fi "modems" than the part between BPL
"modems". Both use either the existing slice of radio spectra
(somewhere up in the microwave bands) or existing power wires.
But that would leave out laptops running off batteries (unless
BPL fesses up to being a radiator and that laptop actually
transmits a signal thru an antenna to be picked up by leaky
nearby power wires being fed by a BPL system, and visa versa.
Then the entire camel gets into the tent...).

Then it's not incidental radiation anymore, but intentional.

Another big difference is that a Wi-Fi modem bought here in EPA today can be
used all over the country if I sign up with the right provider. A BPL modem for
a particular system doesn't work on BPL systems by other companies.

Wi-Fi is already "on the shelf" vs BPL which would have to
charge more to pay off the development costs, or the providers
would have to front a huge investment that may never pay off.

Most of this country's major airports have Wi-Fi nodes ("hot spots").
Drop into yer seat in the podium areas, fire up the laptop and catch
up with your e-mail or whatever. Sixty bucks for the modem and yer
online. And they're already on the shelf and in use. Ditto the
Starbucks stores, truck stops, etc.

It doesn't take much of a stretch to imagine that the basic technology
can be deployed over huge swaths of users at low installation costs.
One inexpensive little black box up a pole per block or on cell phone
towers in urban and suburban neighborhoods, etc.

Supposedly one inexpensive BPL box on a neighborhood power pole is
the equivalent. And every user needs a BPL "modem" as well. These
would cost about the same as Wi-Fi and offer inferior service.

Depends on the system. And the BPL injectors and extractors have to be
insulated to stand the MV distribution voltages. And the power line has to be
clean enough not to interfere with BPL signals.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/07/28/5/?nc=1

73 de Jim, N2EY

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/08/06/2/

There goes another one!

This time it's one of Mikey's BPL poster children who bailed out.

.. . . works for me . . !


w3rv

Brian Kelly wrote:
(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/07/28/5/?nc=1

73 de Jim, N2EY


http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/08/06/2/

There goes another one!

This time it's one of Mikey's BPL poster children who bailed out.

. . . works for me . . !


Good to see they gathered the "valuable information" and still pulled
the plug. Obviously if it was such a good thing, they would have
announced their immediate plans to expand the service area.

Took 'em $500,000 dollars to find out exactly what we told 'em would
happen. I'll offer to consult with these Powerline companies for 20
percent of that cost.

One more battle.......

- Mike KB3EIA -

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

One more battle.......

...with you on the sidelines egging on the fight?

Now be honest, Leonard. Isn't that the sum total of your involvement in
amateur radio?

Dave K8MN

On 2 Aug 2004 08:25:26 -0700, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

Wires for any type of communications purposes are already on their way
into history. BPL was stillborn from the gitgo.

The future is satellite. Wi-Fi will just be a fad like the laserdisc.

Stacey, AA7YA

The City of Grandhaven, MI has just set up WiFi for the whole area, and
Ottawa County is taking about doing the same for the whole county.

How could any local entity (govt. or otherwise) do this using satellite?
The cost of launching a satellite is too high. Aren't the existing
staellite Internet services (DirecWay -- is there any other?) slow and
expensive, and require a large outlay up front for equipment?

Alan NV8A


On 08/14/04 05:47 am S. Hanrahan put fingers to keyboard and launched
the following message into cyberspace:

Wires for any type of communications purposes are already on their way
into history. BPL was stillborn from the gitgo.

The future is satellite. Wi-Fi will just be a fad like the laserdisc.

Minnie Bannister wrote in message ...
The City of Grandhaven, MI has just set up WiFi for the whole area, and
Ottawa County is taking about doing the same for the whole county.

There ya go!

How could any local entity (govt. or otherwise) do this using satellite?
The cost of launching a satellite is too high. Aren't the existing
staellite Internet services (DirecWay -- is there any other?) slow and
expensive, and require a large outlay up front for equipment?

They can take any number of routes into existing satellite
capabilities which are both inaccessible and unaffordale out here at
the RRAP consumer level.

Very hypothetical example: Podunk Hollow County ND pays some first
tier commercial ISP which has a connection into the INTELSAT network
and pays them $10,000 a month for their connection. Could be AT&T,
Verizon, Comcast, etc.

Then Podunk Hollow County becomes a local non-profit ISP which puts up
a bunch of Wi-Fi nodes, signs up 2,000 of it's citizens as subscibers
to it's service and charges them ten bucks a month for the connection.
The $10,000 "profit" they appear to be getting in this scenario
actually goes into initial capital investment recovery, the sinking
fund and the system operating and maintenance expenses.

Alan NV8A

w3rv




On 08/14/04 05:47 am S. Hanrahan put fingers to keyboard and launched
the following message into cyberspace:

Wires for any type of communications purposes are already on their way
into history. BPL was stillborn from the gitgo.

The future is satellite. Wi-Fi will just be a fad like the laserdisc.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:31:31 -0400, Minnie Bannister
wrote:

How could any local entity (govt. or otherwise) do this using satellite?
The cost of launching a satellite is too high. Aren't the existing
staellite Internet services (DirecWay -- is there any other?) slow and
expensive, and require a large outlay up front for equipment?

Easy, they (local entity) won't have to.

Sure, there's DirecWay, then there's Starband, and soon there will be
a third player, WildBlue.


Alan NV8A

Stacey/ AA7YA

S. Hanrahan wrote in message . ..
On 2 Aug 2004 08:25:26 -0700, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

Wires for any type of communications purposes are already on their way
into history. BPL was stillborn from the gitgo.

The future is satellite. Wi-Fi will just be a fad like the laserdisc.

Probably not - that is, if we're talking about customers directly
accessing the
satellite. While there's definitely a future for satellite comms, the
"last mile" problem combined with the enormous bandwidth of fiber
limits its usefulness as a general-purpose broadband access method.

Say you orbit a new, state of the art satellite. How much bandwidth
can it provide to how many customers? Compare that to what is
available in a single fiber. Also remember that once the duct is in
place, pulling another fiber isn't that expensive, and that new
technologies permit more bandwidth in existing fibers.

--

One thing the BPL folks downplay is that they really only use the
power lines for customer delivery (the "last mile" or so). Which could
almost always be done better by some form of Wi-Fi, DSL, cable, or
(yes) satellite.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
S. Hanrahan wrote in message . ..
On 2 Aug 2004 08:25:26 -0700, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

Wires for any type of communications purposes are already on their way
into history. BPL was stillborn from the gitgo.

The future is satellite. Wi-Fi will just be a fad like the laserdisc.

Wi-fi is already much bigger than the laserdisc was and it's growing
exponentially. The laserdisc died on the stores shelves from the
gitgo.

Probably not - that is, if we're talking about customers directly
accessing the
satellite.

It's the cost of consumer direct access to the satellites which is the
show-stopper and I don't see it coming down to dialup costs for years
if ever. 80% of the U.S. consumers with access are still using dialup
connections and most of 'em are not going to move to broadband until
the costs get a lot closer to dialup than they are.

While there's definitely a future for satellite comms, the
"last mile" problem combined with the enormous bandwidth of fiber
limits its usefulness as a general-purpose broadband access method.

Say you orbit a new, state of the art satellite. How much bandwidth
can it provide to how many customers?

A whole bunch. Even the old birds which have been up for years can
repeat something like 900 TV channels and those are not considered
high-capacity satellites.

Compare that to what is
available in a single fiber. Also remember that once the duct is in
place, pulling another fiber isn't that expensive, and that new
technologies permit more bandwidth in existing fibers.

What "ducts"?? There aren't any ducts running into farms and vacation
lodges out in the boonies. They'll have the last mile problem for
years to come. Until the phone companies replace their twisted-pair
wiring with cable, fiber optic and otherwise.

w3rv