In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Now - has Len ever said he wanted to make amateur radio better?

Well, when you put it that way - no he hasn't.

Ayup.

He takes swipes at the ARRL, hams who would like to see morse continue,
hams who use morse and hams who prefer morse to other modes. He
ridicules the traditions of amateur radio. He belittles the activities
of hams who participate in emergency communications and traffic
handling.

Think about why someone would behave like that.

I think he wants that ham ticket but I think he'd rather die than (I
love this now famous line) "jump through hoops" to obtain one. If that
is his wish, I'm sure he'll have it his way.

I don't think Len wants a ham license at all.

Agreed 100 percent.

Now put all that together and see what conclusion comes out about what Len
*really* wants.

Yeah, I think Leonard's world is empty. He doesn't achieve the respect
here which he feels is his due as a former PROFESSIONAL.

Perhaps.

Or maybe he gets a form of pleasure from behaving the way he does here.

Haven't you known people who got great pleasure ruining others' fun? People
who
could take *any* activity and tell you it was bad for you, ruined the
environment/economy/society etc., and was a waste of time?

You've probably been blessed, as I have, to know people of all ages who are
full of life, enthusiasm and joy. These people give off positive energy -
they're just plain fun to be around, even when there's hard work to be
done.

Then there are folks who are just the opposite. They're full of criticism,
anger, nastiness and tearing-down of others. Sometimes they try to mask it
with
"humor", but the mask doesn't always work. They give off negative energy.

Which would you rather be around?

Hmmm?

And let me add: which would you rather *be*?

Think of this: Suppose we all were in the same area, and wanted to do a
Field
Day effort. Who would you rather have as leader, given only these choices:
Mike, Steve, Brian or Len?

One guess who'd I'd pick for the leader out of those four.

I recall a series on "This Old House" some years back where the project
involved building a new timber-frame structure. The actual timer framing
was
done by a team of workers led by a master timber framer. Most of the
workers
were amateurs who had *paid* to be there, learning something about the art
and being part of the experience.

Now in case you didn't know, timber framing is a very old craft. Modern
timber
framing is a mixture of very old and very new techniques. For example, the
plans are CADD generated and the timbers come from a modern sawmill. But
the
finish cuts are all done by hand, with very sharp chisels that are in the
personal care of each worker. Modern comealongs and slings are used, but
the
real work of timber frame erection is done by manual labor.

btw, they measure-twice-cut-once on everything. And the joints are made with
tolerances no more than 1/32". Never mind that such precision isn't really
necessary structurally and that nobody will see most of the joints up close,
they do it that way because they can, and because it's about care and
craftsmanship, not just tossing up another McMansion.

The team of timber framers worked for a week to cut all the joints and
assemble
all the bents. On Raising Day, everyone involved in the project worked from
dawn-till-done, and the whole frame was raised before the sun went down.
And a
small evergreen tree was lashed to the top of the last bent, a tradition
that is still honored by ironworkers raising skyscrapers.

So *that's" what that is about! Never know where you are going to learn
something.

I don't know how the tradition originated, but it continues to this day.
Perhaps it is a way of acknowledging that living trees gave us the wood to
build the structure. Perhaps it is a symbol of new life, in a new shelter.

Whatever it is, it's a tradition that lives on, despite there being no
structural reason for it.

The point of this long story is that the master framer led his team with
pure
positive energy. Everyone involved wanted to be there, amateur and
professional alike, and it wasn't just a job but an experience.

Now of course somebody will point out that modern methods could cut the
timber
frames in a fraction of the time, and the whole thing put up by a small
crew
with a crane. But it wouldn't be the same, would it?

It is the joy of the shared task.

That's part of it.

Not all that many people know about
it, or don't know that they *do* know it, but it is available to all.

Yes.

But it cannot be bought - it must be earned.

A
lot of engineers know about it, and certainly soldiers that do the
fighting know a version of it. Portions of it can be awfully difficult,
but there is the moment when you stand back, and you think "WOW, look
what WE did!"

Been there, done that. Why do you think my rigs are homebrew?

Beats beer served by Hiedi Klum... sometimes! ;^)

How about if Ms. Klum serves the beer after the last beam is in place? Best of
both worlds!

I enjoy the shared labor a lot.

Me too.

There's another part of it, too: By doing something like that timber-frame, the
workers were connecting with something much bigger than simply cutting some
wood. They became part of a tradition that goes back centuries and yet
continues today. Each worker could sign work they'd done, leaving a part of
themselves with at the site.

They created a home for real people - a family that the workers got to know,
because the family was right there working with them. They became a community
for the time they were there.

The master framer gave a wonderful speech at the beginning of Raising Day. On
that project, they were actually replacing a 150+year-old timber frame
structure that had to come down because of rot in the old wood. He spoke of how
the timber framers of that time had worked, and how the structure had long
outlived those who built it. He noted that the new structure could hopefully
last as long or longer. Most of all, he connected the past, present and future.

For some reason there are people that
don't like me because of that.

Me too!

Perhaps it is because we remind them of things that cannot be bought, nor
acquired easily, yet which are much more worthwhile than those things which
can.

Perhaps it is the fact that, no matter what can be done theoretically, real
things get done because real people actually do them.

Consider the last time you did some sort of project yourself from start to
finish, or with a closely knit team. Compare it with simply paying somebody to
do it for you. Is it the same thing? Why or why not?

Perhaps your above mentioned description,
fits... 8^)

I think so.

For all his toil in presenting his long, increasingly eccentric
material, he has won over a single ardent admirer, "William". I'm sure
he's proud.

The question is - proud of what?

Darned if I know...

And there's two more pieces to the puzzle:

Everyone who worked on that timber frame could walk away proud of what they'd
done. Yet they need not brag about it - all anyone need do is look at the
house. It stands as a testimony to their work, skill, spirit and community.

There is also a big difference between those who imagine, create and build, and
those who hate and destroy. The destroyer needs the creator desperately, but
the creator does not need the destroyer at all. Those who attacked the WTC and
Pentagon on that terrible day in September 2001 could not build the airplanes
or the buildings - they could only destroy them.

Which would you rather be around? And which would you rather be?

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Quitefine) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Blackguard) writes:

You worry overmuch about Quitefine's and Blackguard's identity!

We find it interesting
the anonymity of some
[such as 'Leo'] is respected,
while that of others is not.

Double standard?

No.

Yes, it is.

I'm not the least bit worried about about your identity.

It is not about worry.

Makes
no real difference.

Agreed.

However, the reaction of the PCTA, specifically
Steve/K4YZ/K4CAP, to any anonymous post that disagrees with him is a
call to arms, and usually results in a "cowardly scum" accusation.

You write as if the actions of
one are the actions of all. They
are not.

Consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any anonymous
post that disagrees with him.
It is predictable with a high
degree of confidence that he
will respond with insults and name calling.

Would you consider his responses
to be the same as all 'NCTA' people?

Or are they just his?

For that matter,
consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any
post that disagrees with him.

Yet you tolerate and condone
Len's behaviour.


Perhaps I am Mike Coslo. Perhaps I am Jim Miccolis. Maybe I am both!

Or neither.

Or perhaps Blackguard is but
one of us.

Perhaps. I do think it's funny, though.

Then we have fulfilled
part of our goal.

I will impart some wisdom to you. You may not know this.
You hate my so-called anonymity not because I don't have courage of my
convictions but because it is no fun for you to hurl insults at that
which you cannot identify. It is fun for you to hurl insults at named
people.

The plain truth!

Would you beel better if I called you "gutless scum?"

No.

Well, maybe you
would but that's not my style.

Nor ours.

Say something bad about the Morse Code
exam, and you'll get plenty of it.

From whom?

Say something good about
the Morse Code exam, or
the Morse Code itself, and
you'll get plenty of it too.

You need people like Steve badly.

But with Quitefine and Blackguard, you must discuss ideas!
Or you can do as you are doing.
You can complain that we aren't real.

We are real.
Who we are is not important.
What we have to say is.
Which bothers some people.

I complain only that you receive preferential treatment for anonymii.

From whom?

It is merely my way of making another point with respect to the PCTA
Double Standard.

You attribute the behaviour of
one, to all. That is illogical.

That is important enough to point out again and again.

Yet you ignore similar behaviour
by Lenover21 and yourself.

PAH! Whining.

as once was
and always shall be
I am
Blackguard Vox Deus

Thank you for sharing
your wisdom.

I'm still thinking about pulling a Cecil. Life is much more pleasant
on the QuiteDarkguard side.

Do you not have the guts
to call us by our names, Brian?

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...

I sold the fixed-up Viking 2 and VFO a year or two later, and moved away
from
that QTH in 1999. Someday I'll get back on 160.

I have lots more...

73 de Jim, N2EY

Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.
There's no reason to stay off of 160.

W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.

The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about 95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.

I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and actually
listen to/read the information provided.

Time/date/freq pse?

You forgot "mode?"

When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath

Believe me I haven't.

73 de Jim, N2EY

b.

"Jeff, you've never been under Incoming, have you? While
trying to get return artillery support on a radio while your
ears, your whole body is numbed by HE infall on your
position? Most folks in that position don't wet their
pants...every sphincter tightens up, ears go deaf, eyes
close tight, and every breath may be the last."

--Len Anderson, 2000


Hey guys, just as a general question, how many sphincters does a human
have anyhow? I thought there was just one....


- Mike KB3EIA -

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

It is the joy of the shared task.

That's part of it.

Here's another part that didn't get into the previous post:

In modern industrial society, most of us don't produce "something"
that is lasting and tangible. As in "I built that!" Most people's jobs
are as part of a much larger team, where they perform a specific
limited function.

Of course some people (like us engineers) do get to say "We/I built
that", or in the case of EMT/health care people "We/I saved that
person's life/health/delivered that baby" etc. But most of modern life
is highly specialized and regulated, or limited by time/space/money
considerations. Heck, Americans aren't even cooking as much as they
used to (more and more meals are either eaten in restaurants, are
take-out, or are precooked heat-em-ups).

So it's understandable that many people are attracted to nonvocational
activities where they "do for themselves". Mike's hockey team may
never play at the level of the NHL or even the minor-league pro hockey
teams - but that isn't the point. Veggies grown in a home garden, or
fish you catch yourself may cost more than just buying them in the
supermarket, when you take into account all the costs - but that isn't
the point either.

And even an elaborate ham station may not meet what some people call
"professional standards" - but that isn't the point at all.

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:


You forgot "mode?"

When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath

Believe me I haven't.


Tsk. All that "civil discourse" wasted. Hi hi.

Nice to see another anti-demonstration of the radio amateur's
"inherent good will."

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Len Over 21 wrote:



Tsk, tsk. You want a meeting with charts and graphs and an
experienced presenter to show you examples of the infamous
Double Standard?!?!?


hmm, maybe. *Your answer* is what needs explaining. If I don't
care
about your mode, nor Steve's mode of expression, and you two are on
opposite sides of the discussion, I need an explanation of why that
means that I have a double standard.


Tsk. Still need an "explanation?"


Not a good reply, Coslo.


Nor a good explanation.



Lennie doesn't HAVE a "Double Standard" that he can use as an
example,
Mike. That's why he dodged answering your post.



Nope, I took the summer off to rest a torn meniscus. Takes
longer to
heal as time marches on.


Who filled in under your name in here "all summer?"


What are you talking about?


You'll have to forgive Lennie...If you posted even once in that time
period, he assumes that you anxiously devoured each and ever word he
wrote as
if there were no other nourishment to be had.



Or you may be smoking some "good stuff" that Bob Casey said I
was... :-)


nahh. nothing stronger than the occasional beer for me.


3.2 stuff? :-)


You smoke beer? How is that done? :-)


So. you deliberately misunderstand me to serve as the content of your
replies? noted! 8^)



Of course. "The Dodge" (not the automobile). A typical Lenniesque
diversion from having to acknowledge a comment which might embarrass

him.


Tsk. You should get a subscription to Psychology Today and
fill yourself in on what "relationships" are.


It is okay. This happens all over Netnews. Don't let it bother you too
much.



This is where Lennie gets most of his "education"...Periodicals that
his
wife subscribed to...Of course he'd have everyone here believe that it
was
HIS education that carried the day.


If you know all this Steve, why bother with Len at all?


Here's the question Steve. I think I know the answer already, but let's
check it out.


As long as Lenover21 continues to post in his present style, I assume
that you are happy to post in retort to him. Yes?


If you'll take careful notice, Mike, with rare exception over the last
few
months, I rare reply directly to anything he says. Most of it (like the
last
couple with you here) have been as a result of someone else's posts echoing
him.


I'm pretty convinced that even though there are times you find him
exasperating, it doesn't upset you to make the posts?

What would upset me even more is letting a bully go unchallenged.


A bully? Len only has as much power as you give him. Proof of the saying
"He
who angers me, controls me. " Len works jard to anger you, so you'll come
off
the handle, call him names, etc.

Note how upset he gets when people *don't* react in kind. Note how he's
trying
to get mild-mannered Mike Coslo worked up so that Mike will reply in kind.

But Mr. Coslo doesn't work that way. I suspect his time on the ice is one
reason. (One trick in hockey is to do something when the ref isn't looking
that
elicits a violent reaction when the ref *is* looking. Result: Penalty box
and
your team is down a player for several minutes. Games are won and lost that
way. So Mike stays cool and collected.


Amateur Radio is something that has enrichened my life and has been a
Godsend on more than one occassion.


Same for me. I think my background in ham radio got me into engineering
school
and into a successful EE career. Introduced me to a lot of good friends.
Showed
me a world many folks don't even know exists.

Why should Len's words bother me?


To allow a creep like Anderscum to trash it unabated would be
unthinkable.


His words have only as much power as you give them. Calling him "Anderscum"
simply lowers you to his level. Can't you see that's what he wants?

It isn't. But it IS the non-answer expected.

PCTA just don't have much validity in their reasons of keeping
the code test in regulations.

They are all into the fantasy of "brotherhood" in the "fraternity."

And of "service to their country" by engaging in a hobby...

ESPECIALLY when he is so blatantly wrong on so many occassions.


Then point out the errors without the name calling.

Absolutely. Show ALL NCTA the "Error of their Ways!"

Hi hi.

Everything about removing the morse code test is an "Error"
as well as Heresy and an Abomination to the Ham Gods.

I also believe that for good or bad, you enjoy it to a certain extent.

Only that it lends some balance to his mistruthfulness and deceit.


When you call him "Lennie" and "anderscum" and go off on his wife or
whatever,
it undermines *your* credibility. Which is just what he wants.

Tsk. Not what "I" want.

PCTA are NEVER "wrong." Never.

Anything said against them is an "error." Hi hi.


No. good guess, but that was an exchange he had with Bessie Braddock, a

House of Commons member from Liverpool.

UK regulations came into the thread?

Tsk. Nice misdirection, but still misdirection.

Lennie did one active duty tour in the Army. Good for him.

But I know people who have made far greater contributions to the United
States who never left thier home state than Lennie ever hoped to "passing
1.2
million messages at ADA in 1953".

Len and over 700 other military personnel there at the time...

Jimmie wasn't there. Jimmie wasn't ever in ANY military.

But Jimmie Knows The Truth about Everything and won't hesitate
to call any NCTA "in Error."

Kellie was never in any military.

Kellies also "knows truth."

That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other
than
what he is now...bitter and angry.


What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.

Hard to say, Jim. I don't think posts such as his come from a sense of
being in harmony with the world, tho'!

"In harmony with the world?"

Is the ARRL now expounding some kind of New Age thing for all hams?

Tsk, tsk. The "world" is that of the morsemen's fantasizing of yesterday.

If you want some real fantasy with buck attached, check into Paul
Crouch's TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network). Paul Crouch started
out as a licensed radio amateur...parlayed radio into nearly a billion-
dollar asset "religious" organization with laying on of green hands
to all his "ministry."

Crouch's rationality for greed and avarice is "God's Word."

TBN's "ministry" gives the flock God's Word and the flock give their
money to TBN and Crouch.

There's a religious parallel there. Like all hams of today MUST follow
the Old Teachings...as if they were the Word of God (which they
aren't). If you worship hobbies that way, you can call all non-believers
(in the old teachings of hamme) as "out of harmony" (crazy in a
supposedly civilized way).

Continue to support the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. It's your
"harmony."

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Tsk, tsk. You want a meeting with charts and graphs and an
experienced presenter to show you examples of the infamous
Double Standard?!?!?

hmm, maybe. *Your answer* is what needs explaining. If I don't
care
about your mode, nor Steve's mode of expression, and you two are on
opposite sides of the discussion, I need an explanation of why that
means that I have a double standard.

Tsk. Still need an "explanation?"

Not a good reply, Coslo.

Nor a good explanation.

Lennie doesn't HAVE a "Double Standard" that he can use as an
example,
Mike. That's why he dodged answering your post.

Nope, I took the summer off to rest a torn meniscus. Takes
longer to

heal as time marches on.

Who filled in under your name in here "all summer?"

What are you talking about?

You'll have to forgive Lennie...If you posted even once in that
time
period, he assumes that you anxiously devoured each and ever word he
wrote as
if there were no other nourishment to be had.

Or you may be smoking some "good stuff" that Bob Casey said I
was... :-)

nahh. nothing stronger than the occasional beer for me.

3.2 stuff? :-)

You smoke beer? How is that done? :-)

So. you deliberately misunderstand me to serve as the content
of your
replies? noted! 8^)

Of course. "The Dodge" (not the automobile). A typical
Lenniesque
diversion from having to acknowledge a comment which might embarrass

him.

Tsk. You should get a subscription to Psychology Today and
fill yourself in on what "relationships" are.

It is okay. This happens all over Netnews. Don't let it bother
you too

much.

This is where Lennie gets most of his "education"...Periodicals
that
his
wife subscribed to...Of course he'd have everyone here believe that it
was
HIS education that carried the day.

If you know all this Steve, why bother with Len at all?

Because Steve lies, and Steve has a mission, and Steve is nuts.

Like the guy in the movie, Acropolis Now, he was lying on his back in
a hoe house, the ceiling fan started to look like a rotary wing
propellor, then he says, "I asked for a mission, and for my sins, they
gave me one."

No "hi, hi" on that one.

Apt mental picture. Easy to visualize.

Here's the question Steve. I think I know the answer already, but let's
check it out.

As long as Lenover21 continues to post in his present style, I assume
that you are happy to post in retort to him. Yes?

%#$%&**@!!!

You actually asked such a question???

Jimmie's wife hasn't been threatened. His tires haven't been slashed.

If you'll take careful notice, Mike, with rare exception over the last
few
months, I rare reply directly to anything he says. Most of it (like the
last
couple with you here) have been as a result of someone else's posts
echoing
him.

I'm pretty convinced that even though there are times you find him
exasperating, it doesn't upset you to make the posts?

What would upset me even more is letting a bully go unchallenged.

A bully? Len only has as much power as you give him. Proof of the saying
"He
who angers me, controls me. " Len works jard to anger you, so you'll come
off
the handle, call him names, etc.

Works EVERY time!

Heh.

I'll have to rest from all that "jard work." Hi hi.

[have to recharge my ham mower...]

Jimmie no make Errors like "blatant typos." So Jimmie must be talkin
'bout Jard Work.

Note how upset he gets when people *don't* react in kind. Note how he's
trying
to get mild-mannered Mike Coslo worked up so that Mike will reply in kind.

Poor Mike. Supports Steve. Get's blasted.

Whatsa nice guy to do? "Steve's not such a bad sort, I mean he never
called me But Mr. Coslo doesn't work that way. I suspect his time on the
ice is one
reason. (One trick in hockey is to do something when the ref isn't looking
that
elicits a violent reaction when the ref *is* looking. Result: Penalty box
and
your team is down a player for several minutes. Games are won and lost that
way. So Mike stays cool and collected.

And plays dirty?

"Winning is EVERYTHING!"

yawn

Excuse me...to avoid "errors" I should have written jawn.


Amateur Radio is something that has enrichened my life and has been a
Godsend on more than one occassion.

Same for me. I think my background in ham radio got me into engineering
school
and into a successful EE career.

Holey Moley! You're a real engineer? Got any land surveying under
your belt?

I don't think so. Too much IVY in the collitch.

Introduced me to a lot of good friends. Showed
me a world many folks don't even know exists.

Why should Len's words bother me?

So much so that you kill file him? Can't imagine it!

"You can't handle the truth!" - Col. Jessup.

To allow a creep like Anderscum to trash it unabated would be
unthinkable.

His words have only as much power as you give them. Calling him "Anderscum"
simply lowers you to his level.

Absolutely. And Jim's "Dr. Fill" persona isn't nearly enough to work
on Steve's psychophenomenon.

It all started in an oprah...for doc fill. :-)

Can't you see that's what he wants?

Everyone but Steve sees it!!!

Not what I want.

Poor nursie can't handle the return fire.

Doesn't that clue you in the least???

Sorry Han's, Steve IS Controlled by Len!

Hi, hi!

"I control the vertical, I control the horizontal" - intro to old SF TV
show.

ESPECIALLY when he is so blatantly wrong on so many occassions.

Then point out the errors without the name calling.

In-friggin-possible!!!

Tsk. "blatant errors." Hi hi.

Well, to the religious nuts, anything against morse code IS heresy
and an abomination to ham gods.

I also believe that for good or bad, you enjoy it to a certain extent.

Only that it lends some balance to his mistruthfulness and deceit.

When you call him "Lennie" and "anderscum" and go off on his wife or
whatever,
it undermines *your* credibility. Which is just what he wants.

Hellooooooooo?????????

Steve's just lucky that Len doesn't pick up the phone!!!

Actually, I did. Answered a wrong number.

Not actually a wrong number. Was a telemarketer. Telemarketer
was on the "do not call" list.

They got reported to the FCC for violating the telephone spam rules.

So you guys have a relationship. It's a pretty strange one, made easier
by Netnews, but this sort of thing has existed for a long time. It's the
old Winston Churchhill/Lady Astor thing. They traded barbs with each
other, and I have to believe they enjoyed it.

Was it Lady Astor who said to Sir Winston:

"My good sir, I do believe you are drunk!"

"Yes, m'lady, I am. And you are quite ugly. But tomorrow I will be
sober...."

That was mean. And Steve is crazy. Tomorrow, Steve will still be
crazy, Lady Astor will still be ugly, and Len will still be laughing
at you guys.

Ho ho! :-)

Sir Winston just might have a headache.

Why Lenover21 resists my suggestions that this is what is going on is
beyond me. It is no insult, its just how things go sometimes.

He resists them because admitting them would spoil his game.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

If you can. Hi, hi!

The only thing that seems to count is regular attendance at the
Church of St. Hiram and the regular morse mass every morning.

He resists a lot. Common sense. Civility. Friendship. He'd rather
you slap him around a bit than shake his hand.

Of course. Now think what his real purpose could be. Here's a hint: It's
not
about making amateur radio better or advancing it

(hint: nor is yours)

Gosh. A long time ago I stated that all I was advocating was a removal
of the morse code test from a license test.

Lots of the Believers in here didn't believe that.

Lot's wife, too...

Tsk. I should have posted the Bans on the doorway of the Church
of St. Hiram. [something like old Marty L. did long ago]

The mighty macho morsemen might have believed that. Hi hi.

Lennie loves to berate othrs for "assuming", "rank and priviledge",
and
swears he does NOT berate others for thier services regardless.

thier?

"Their" "sevices to 'thier' country" by virtue of engaging in a hobby.

Hard to beat rationalizations like that.

That's been misproven repeatedly. Just google up the famous "sphincters
post",
where he berated and denigrated a US Coast Guard radio operator for his
recollections of his duties at NPM.

The guy who sold out his PO box to Deignan the callsign collector?

Now there's someone who contributes to the state of the art.

Real good example of modern-day ham "ethics" and "nobility."

That's how he got to be a "lecturer in mathematics at a university"
(just another teacher in a junior college).

Gotta be careful. Said seller is one of the nabobs with the 'Net and
has some "authority" on this newsgroup along with Paul Schleck.

I do not have now, and I never did have any military rank. That needs
to be clear. But there are more ways than that of serving your country.

Some ways are more meaningful than others.

Agreed 100%

10 - 50%

Zero.

Absolutely.

Lennie did one active duty tour in the Army. Good for him.

More than Kelly did.

More than Jimmie did.

But I know people who have made far greater contributions to the
United
States who never left thier home state than Lennie ever hoped to "passing
1.2
million messages at ADA in 1953".

Name them and "thier" deeds.

ADA did about 220 thousand messages a month in 1955. Anyone
can estimate what one shift's responsibility was.

We didn't sit around cross-checking messages like a QSL Bureau.
We just sent and received them, working 24/7 regardless of what
the cashew-cruncher said. Duty was done.

Only about 300 of the Battalion were actively involved in ADA
operations, the rest in other Signal tasks at Far East Command
Headquarters. The photographic services company helped earn
the Battalions' Presidential Unit Citation (we got two of those).
[nursie didn't approve either citation...probably because of not
being born yet...hi hi]

But...*my* serving there was not the point. The real POINT was
that the U.S. military did NOT use "CW" for the majority of
messaging necessary to maintain a worldwide military. The U.S.
military of 50 years ago relied on teleprinter to do that. Teleprinter
was fast, reliable, as close to error-free as possible, and could
work without interruptions (save to change paper, tape, ribbons).

Manual morse telegraphy was still used by the USN and USCG of
50 years ago, but on shipboard. Those were relatively small
stations. USN networks of fixed-point to fixed-point were still relying
on teleprinter for the mass of necessary messaging...and for the
on-line encryption and decryption of sensitive material, something
they pioneered more than 60 years ago.

Olde-tyme hammes chafe at such reality. They have no real
comeback but instead misdirect to their own "ranks and statuses"
(if they had any) and old, old myths of morse to justify morse
testing for hobbyists of today. Those that can do neither come
out with personal insults at those pointing out reality of the past
or thinly-disguised insults they claim as "civil."


I see a broken down Marine, who tragically lost a child, now extremely
bitter and angry.

I see Kelly suggest I take my children to Somalia.

Is there any middle ground with you guys?

"Thier" way or the highway. Do code or die!

NO middle ground.

Obey the ARRL and the teachings of the Church of St. Hiram.

What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I'm just waitng for that one.

Heh...the last time I was "bitter" was during a visit to Angostura.

Hmmm...I'm a retired person with a comfortable income, living with
my wife (who was my high school sweetheart) in a nice house that
has long since been mortage-free. I have a nice workshop in the
center of the house (inside, not consigned to a cold/hot garage) and
have the time and money to play with radio-electronics. I've "proved"
myself in the military, then the workplace, don't have to have rank,
status, or some artificial privileges for a hobby radio activity.

"Bitter?" I doubt it. Old, yes. If one survives a long time on earth,
that is what one achieves. :-)

It IS fun to watch all the posturing and preening in here, though, all
the chest-pounding and pseudo-religious beliefs manifested. It IS
fun to poke some holes in that posturing, preening, and pounding.
Tsk. The posturers can't stand up straight on subjects but have to
resort to pejoratives on the "pokers." [their problem, not mine]

All that about a HOBBY. Tsk. Hi hi.

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

But, but, but...

amateur radio is supposed to have a reputation for innovation.

(Quitefine) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Quitefine) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Blackguard) writes:

You worry overmuch about Quitefine's and Blackguard's identity!

We find it interesting
the anonymity of some
[such as 'Leo'] is respected,
while that of others is not.

Double standard?

No.

Yes, it is.

I'm not the least bit worried about about your identity.

It is not about worry.

Makes
no real difference.

Agreed.

However, the reaction of the PCTA, specifically
Steve/K4YZ/K4CAP, to any anonymous post that disagrees with him is a
call to arms, and usually results in a "cowardly scum" accusation.

You write as if the actions of
one are the actions of all. They
are not.

Consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any anonymous
post that disagrees with him.
It is predictable with a high
degree of confidence that he
will respond with insults and name calling.

Would you consider his responses
to be the same as all 'NCTA' people?

Or are they just his?

For that matter,
consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any
post that disagrees with him.

Yet you tolerate and condone
Len's behaviour.


Perhaps I am Mike Coslo. Perhaps I am Jim Miccolis. Maybe I am both!

Or neither.

Or perhaps Blackguard is but
one of us.

Perhaps. I do think it's funny, though.

Then we have fulfilled
part of our goal.

I will impart some wisdom to you. You may not know this.
You hate my so-called anonymity not because I don't have courage of my
convictions but because it is no fun for you to hurl insults at that
which you cannot identify. It is fun for you to hurl insults at named
people.

The plain truth!

Would you beel better if I called you "gutless scum?"

No.

Well, maybe you
would but that's not my style.

Nor ours.

Say something bad about the Morse Code
exam, and you'll get plenty of it.

From whom?

Say something good about
the Morse Code exam, or
the Morse Code itself, and
you'll get plenty of it too.

You need people like Steve badly.

But with Quitefine and Blackguard, you must discuss ideas!
Or you can do as you are doing.
You can complain that we aren't real.

We are real.
Who we are is not important.
What we have to say is.
Which bothers some people.

I complain only that you receive preferential treatment for anonymii.

From whom?

It is merely my way of making another point with respect to the PCTA
Double Standard.

You attribute the behaviour of
one, to all. That is illogical.

That is important enough to point out again and again.

Yet you ignore similar behaviour
by Lenover21 and yourself.

PAH! Whining.

as once was
and always shall be
I am
Blackguard Vox Deus

Thank you for sharing
your wisdom.

I'm still thinking about pulling a Cecil. Life is much more pleasant
on the QuiteDarkguard side.

Do you not have the guts
to call us by our names, Brian?

I miss Darkguard. Can he come out and play?