(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
. com...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Now, Leonard -40F and -40C occur at roughly the same point. Have
your
ever participated in amateur radio emergency communications outdoors
when the temp was -40?

I've been outdoors working when the temperature was -30 F.


-40C and -40F are not roughly the same point, they are EXACTLY the same
point.

(Celsius * 9/5) + 32 = Fahrenheit
(-40C * 9/5) + 32 = -40F

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Unless any of you can produce licensure or credentials in meteorology
or atmospheric science, I'm going to have to consider your comments
suspect.

;^)

bb

Actually that would have to be metrology (the science of measurement) since
temperature is not limited to weather.

Wow! A true thing by a morseperson! :-)

Hey, back off!

I've been testing electronics IN a -55 C environment. Involved in
metrology. Was cold. I didn't stay in the walk-in chamber for
any longer than necessary. :-)

CW telemetry always gets through.

Wasn't degreed or credentialed in metrology at the time. Nobody
else involved in that testing was degreed or credentialed in
metrology. NIST doesn't demand that, either!.

Sunnuvagun!

But, but, but... Len. I -need- her to be licensured or credentialed
in metrology whether there's such a thing or not.

I -must- have it.

I DEMAND IT!!!

If SHE doesn't produce licensure in metrology within 24 hours,
Dee will forever be known as a LIAR and a Bag Lady and a Horse Thief!

Because I say so!

;^)

But...to be super-legal on ham HF one MUST be tested for
morsemanship.

Only in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Ham radios won't work without that credential?

Nope - they refuse.

Physics is altogether different.

Haven't you learned that by now? You've been told often enough.

If you don't get that by now I'm going to have to start Dialing...



Strange brew. The things you learn in a ham newsgroup.

On 1 Oct 2004 20:05:47 -0700, William wrote:

Not limited to weather, however, the context -was- weather. I'll
allow you to slide on this one if you can produce licensure or
credentials in "metrology."

Any high school graduate who paid attention during the science
classes knows that -40F = -40C without having to calculate it.

Folks have flunked out of first-year engineering and science classes
for less than that.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
(and yes, I do have a degree in
engineering)

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

Try the inside of a vehicle when the outside air is 116 F (47 C) that
has been closed and sitting in the sun to add 40 C more to the
ambient.

Around here, we generally settle for the decidedly low tech method of
rolling down the windows.


Let's take a look at those phrases:

Yes. Go over and over and over and over and over and over them
until you tire out the opposition to your golden words of truth and
beauty (which are never ever wrong). :-)

Let's at least go over them enough times that everyone except you
realizes your errors.

LHA: "All those subbands are simply for "staking out territory." "

That's my opinion and I'm holding to that.

You're simply wrong. Then again, you aren't a ham so perhaps you could
be excused for not knowing. Now that you've been advised, I'd expect
that you'd be sharp enough to keep from sticking with the same erroneous
view.

A person can hold any opinion they want. Len's stated opinion in this area is
not based on fact.

WRONG. INCORRECT. My opinions are based on FACTUAL
evidence of over a half century of observation.

My, my. You seem to want it both ways. Just a few posts ago, they were
just opinions when I wrote that you presented something as fact. Now
they are opinions based on FACTUAL evidence of over a half century of
observation.

In that case, your facts and your opinions on synthesizer spurs and
phase noise are wrong.

If you don't like it, TS.

"Civil discourse" from Len...

If you don't like that remark, then more TS. I have a sharp TS punch
and will be glad to mark your TS card anytime.

More civil "discoarse".

Does that mean you'll cling to a position no matter how wrong you are?

Isn't that obvious?

Tsk. You guys are a couple of Clingons, bravely regressing to
early pioneer days when Kode was King...because that's all
any ham could come up with on a $100 "recycled parts" budget.

You didn't answer the question posed to you.

Note that Len simply attacks an opposing opinion without any facts to
substantiate his attack.

WRONG. INCORRECT. My opinions are based on FACTUAL
evidence of over a half century of observation.

My, my. You seem to want it both ways. Just a few posts ago, they were
just opinions when I wrote that you presented something as fact. Now
they are opinions based on FACTUAL evidence of over a half century of
observation.

In that case, your facts and your opinions on synthesizer spurs and
phase noise are wrong.


Since when did you two Clingons become sole arbiter and judge of
what is "fact?"


Your view then is that there is no correct or incorrect, no right or
wrong and that there is no invalid opinion?

Is this part of the civil discoarse lesson? Should I be taking notes?

Repeatedly proven to be incorrect, in error, and without any basis in
fact. Hams then and now are able to stay within their bands and
subbands without any need for "modern frequency synthesizers".

Oooooooo! "repeatedly 'proven' to be incorrect, in error and without
any basis in fact! Ooooooo. Tsk, tsk. :-)

An "Ooooooo" and a "Tsk, tsk" aren't much of a defense, are they?

Nope.

Defense? Hardly. Those are just little onomotopoetic phrases to
keep from breaking out in nursie yell-yells maniacal laughter at
the sobresides damning of NCTAs by you two Clingons. Hi hi )as
the emotionless hams do).

That's what I thought of your comments, Len--hardly a defense. You've
been proven wrong. Evidence was presented to you. Your response:

"Ooooooo" and "Task, tsk".

Tsk. You've yet to explain that "Southgate Type 7." [other than the
unusual name] Does it appear in ham literature? In Nobel archives?

The name "Southgate" has certainly appeared in ham literature.

Indeed.

Then it should be in the ARRL Museum, yes?

Should be and might be.

Famous "names" need enshrining in the lore and mythos of the
pioneer days in radio...

It is enshrined, Len. Don't let it worry you that you don't know what
it means.

Just my particular brand of fun in ham radio.

Trying always to be the Superior in anything is fun for the ego-
driven. Lots of PCTA extras in here (practically all of them) get
their jollies that way.

Only you can read "just my way particular brand of fun in ham radio" and
take it as a statement of ego-driven superiority.

What's wrong with any of that?

Nothing "wrong" with that other than taking over the flow of debate
with your pet fun-and-games and promoting morse well over and
above any valid reasons for keeping the morse code test.

The Morse Code test was not mentioned at all, but Len cannot see any other
issue.

Hello? The message thread title is "US Lincensing Restructuring ???
When ???" At stake are some 18 petitions sitting at the FCC waiting
for someone there to put together an NPRM. Most of those petitions
involve the retention or elimination of the morse code test.

Jimmie and Davie (those 'sweethearts') feel that folks in here must
talk ONLY about the subjects THEY approve of?

I've already asked you once, would you like me to google up the last
time you made a comment which dealt with US licensing restructuring in
this thread?

...as compared to your attempting to take over the flow of debate with
your pet fun and games and promoting the abolition of morse code testing
in an endeaver in which you play no part?

But, you consider yourself Superior and therefore "must" triumph
in all things. :-)

Don't you mean "but you've proven me wrong and I just can't abide that"?

bingo!

Tsk...I've not "been proven wrong," just issued the usual baseless
non-facts by PCTA determined to damn every NCTA they can
find.

Balderdash, Leonard. You have indeed been proven wrong by very real
facts, supplemented with several urls where those facts might be
verified.
You're beginning to look very, very silly.


Len walked into a radio store once upon a time and the salespeople couldn't
explain some technical point to his satisfaction. Some of those salespeople
held the Extra class license. Len's conclusion is that people who hold an
Extra class license don't know how radios work.

Poor baby, still feel hurt at not being "respected" for that vaunted
extra class status?

None of your conclusions have hit the mark lately.

I was NOT thinking what you imagined. I was thinking that a sales
outlet that didn't know about its product nor could offer to help
potential customers find out, wasn't a very good business. To this
day I won't look to HRO for "technical answers."

....and I'll bet those guys at HRO are all shook up about it.

"My sales are way down. I wish that nice Mister Anderson would come in
and buy a replacement for the Icom R-70. Twenty years is a long time to
hold a grudge."

Dave K8MN

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

snip of Len's lecture on IC's

What was his point, anyway? That 74192s aren't in current production?

His "point" was to impress us with how much he knew about the devices.
Whether he actually knew much or just presented material glommed from
the web is irrelevant. He needed to impress us. Nobody can know more
than Leonard H. Anderson. Certainly not mere radio amateurs.

Dave K8MN

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , Leo

writes:

On 29 Sep 2004 18:47:50 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

Tsk. You've yet to explain that "Southgate Type 7." [other than the
unusual name] Does it appear in ham literature? In Nobel archives?

Here's a picture, and some technical details...

http://hometown.aol.com/n2ey/myhomepage/

Neat collection

Thnak you, Len!

of recycled toob equipment..

The parts are recycled but the designs are new and unique.

It seems to bother our Leonard that vacuum tubes were used.

Does it? I don't see that, Dave. He wrote that is was a "neat collection".

Ah, Jim, if only I could regain such innocence...

looks like "shacks" of
the 50s and 60s.

It seems to bother our Leonard that your equipment doesn't look like
stereo equipment.

Why should it? It's not stereo equipment. It's amateur radio equipment.

Naw, you just thought it was. Len has already identified it as a
kludge.

Picture is less than 2 years old.

Appears to be a giant collection of QSTs to the
right...

It seems to bother our Leonard that you have an extensive QST library.

I don't see that at all, Dave.

I know, but it is there.

Every issue since mid-1926, and some older ones. Also lots of other radio
magazines, books, manuals, etc. The picture shows only a small part of the
library.

(archives of the renowned historian no doubt). :-)

Who would that be?

I think he means you, Jim. Our Leonard seems to be bothered that you
have the information contained in those magazines. It gives you unfair
advantage over him.

??

The entire run of QST is available on CD-ROM, so the info is available to
anyone willing to spend the $$. (I spent a lot less on the paper mags, but they
take up more space and it's taken me decades to build up the collection).

Len isn't going out to see his pals at the local HRO store to buy QST on
CD-ROM. He certainly isn't going to go round up the actual magazines.



I'm sure it'll come as no surprise to Leonard that my funeral pyre will
be fueled with those magazines.

Please don't! Future generations will be deprived of those magazines if you
burn them. Much of my collection was saved from destruction by hams who would
not let them go to the dump or incinerator. Same for the parts.

You probably gathered that I had no real intention of doing so.


I know an amateur (not me) who was *given* a near-complete collection of QST by
an elderly ham who knew he would soon be SK. He had saved every issue from the
post WW1 reawakening to the prsent day. He had many duplicates, too. It took 3
trips in a Citation to move them all.

Jack Fulmer, then W4HAV (now W4YF) was Vice President of Cincinnati
Milacron lived near me in Fort Thomas, Kentucky early in '68. He had a
complete run of QST but his late Uncle was also a ham and left Jack his
magazine. Jack gave me the complete run of 1934-1958. That formed the
core of my QST collection. Jack was the guy, who with Jean Shepherd
started the short-lived first VW dealership in the Cincinnati area a few
years after the war.

Dave K8MN

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On 1 Oct 2004 20:05:47 -0700, William wrote:

Not limited to weather, however, the context -was- weather. I'll
allow you to slide on this one if you can produce licensure or
credentials in "metrology."

Any high school graduate who paid attention during the science
classes knows that -40F = -40C without having to calculate it.

Folks have flunked out of first-year engineering and science classes
for less than that.

...only if those students were PCTA and tried to beat up an NCTA
teacher. :-)

Tsk. I never saw anyone flunked out of ANY engineering classes
due to not knowing the merge-point of the scales. I just cheat now
by punching a few keys on my little HP 32S II...does the scale
conversion automatically. :-)

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

Collins amateur gear was much less expensive than commercial or
military equipment of the same vintage, and more suited to typical
amateur use. Most hams are not going to be using their equipment at
+85 C or -55 C.

Tsk. Not playing the heroic instant Emergency Communicator,
ready for every emergency when the commercial infrastructure fails?

Riiiight...all ham activity happens at "normal room temperature."

Hi hi.

Now, Leonard -40F and -40C occur at roughly the same point. Have your
ever participated in amateur radio emergency communications outdoors
when the temp was -40?

I've been outdoors working when the temperature was -30 F.

Tsk. How could you stand it being that warm? :-)

Poor baby. Wear your long undies, did you?

Don't forget: he was working uphill both both ways.

And barefoot? :-)

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
. com...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Now, Leonard -40F and -40C occur at roughly the same point. Have
your
ever participated in amateur radio emergency communications
outdoors
when the temp was -40?

I've been outdoors working when the temperature was -30 F.


-40C and -40F are not roughly the same point, they are EXACTLY the
same
point.

(Celsius * 9/5) + 32 = Fahrenheit
(-40C * 9/5) + 32 = -40F

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Unless any of you can produce licensure or credentials in meteorology
or atmospheric science, I'm going to have to consider your comments
suspect.

;^)

bb

Actually that would have to be metrology (the science of measurement)
since
temperature is not limited to weather.

Wow! A true thing by a morseperson! :-)

Hey, back off!

Ooops. My excuse is finding an honest morseperson not trying
(too much) to destroy an NCTA... :-)

I've been testing electronics IN a -55 C environment. Involved in
metrology. Was cold. I didn't stay in the walk-in chamber for
any longer than necessary. :-)

CW telemetry always gets through.

It MUST...whether there's electric power available or not! :-)

Wasn't degreed or credentialed in metrology at the time. Nobody
else involved in that testing was degreed or credentialed in
metrology. NIST doesn't demand that, either!.

Sunnuvagun!

But, but, but... Len. I -need- her to be licensured or credentialed
in metrology whether there's such a thing or not.

I -must- have it.

I DEMAND IT!!!

If SHE doesn't produce licensure in metrology within 24 hours,
Dee will forever be known as a LIAR and a Bag Lady and a Horse Thief!

Because I say so!

;^)

Hmmm...trying out nursie's fantasyworld thinking?

Warning: Do not try that at home!

But...to be super-legal on ham HF one MUST be tested for
morsemanship.

Only in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Yes, so I'm told by all the PCTA extras...if they bother
mentioning it at all... :-)

Ham radios won't work without that credential?

Nope - they refuse.

Physics is altogether different.

Haven't you learned that by now? You've been told often enough.

If you don't get that by now I'm going to have to start Dialing...

Careful, careful, trying to think like nursie may be hazardous to
your health!



Strange brew. The things you learn in a ham newsgroup.

Yes, it is...once in a while a true factoid comes into public view,
about 1 percent of the time in between all the PCTA extras trying
to destroy all NCTA whichever way they can... :-)

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
. com...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Now, Leonard -40F and -40C occur at roughly the same point. Have
your
ever participated in amateur radio emergency communications outdoors
when the temp was -40?

I've been outdoors working when the temperature was -30 F.


-40C and -40F are not roughly the same point, they are EXACTLY the same
point.

(Celsius * 9/5) + 32 = Fahrenheit
(-40C * 9/5) + 32 = -40F

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Unless any of you can produce licensure or credentials in meteorology
or atmospheric science, I'm going to have to consider your comments
suspect.

;^)

bb

Actually that would have to be metrology (the science of measurement) since
temperature is not limited to weather.

Wow! A true thing by a morseperson! :-)

I've been testing electronics IN a -55 C environment. Involved in
metrology. Was cold. I didn't stay in the walk-in chamber for
any longer than necessary. :-)

Wasn't degreed or credentialed in metrology at the time. Nobody
else involved in that testing was degreed or credentialed in
metrology. NIST doesn't demand that, either!.

Damned good thing they don't since you don't have any degrees or credentials.


Sunnuvagun!

But...to be super-legal on ham HF one MUST be tested for
morsemanship. Ham radios won't work without that credential?

Looks like you're slowly gettting it . . .

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , Leo

writes:

On 29 Sep 2004 18:47:50 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

Tsk. You've yet to explain that "Southgate Type 7." [other than
the
unusual name] Does it appear in ham literature? In Nobel
archives?

Here's a picture, and some technical details...

http://hometown.aol.com/n2ey/myhomepage/

Neat collection

Thnak you, Len!

of recycled toob equipment..

The parts are recycled but the designs are new and unique.

It seems to bother our Leonard that vacuum tubes were used.

Does it? I don't see that, Dave. He wrote that is was a "neat collection".

Ah, Jim, if only I could regain such innocence...

What innocence?

If only I could keep it that neat all the time.

looks like "shacks" of
the 50s and 60s.

It seems to bother our Leonard that your equipment doesn't look like
stereo equipment.

Why should it? It's not stereo equipment. It's amateur radio equipment.

Naw, you just thought it was.

I know it is.

Len has already identified it as a kludge.

He's wrong, of course.

Picture is less than 2 years old.

Appears to be a giant collection of QSTs to the
right...

It seems to bother our Leonard that you have an extensive QST library.

I don't see that at all, Dave.

I know, but it is there.

Yes, the collection is there. They're not 'giant' QSTs, either...

Every issue since mid-1926, and some older ones. Also lots of other
radio
magazines, books, manuals, etc. The picture shows only a small part of
the
library.

(archives of the renowned historian no doubt). :-)

Who would that be?

I think he means you, Jim. Our Leonard seems to be bothered that you
have the information contained in those magazines. It gives you unfair
advantage over him.

??

The entire run of QST is available on CD-ROM, so the info is available to
anyone willing to spend the $$. (I spent a lot less on the paper mags, but
they
take up more space and it's taken me decades to build up the collection).

Len isn't going out to see his pals at the local HRO store to buy QST on
CD-ROM. He certainly isn't going to go round up the actual magazines.

Then his ignorance is his own choice.

I'm sure it'll come as no surprise to Leonard that my funeral pyre will
be fueled with those magazines.

Please don't! Future generations will be deprived of those magazines if you
burn them. Much of my collection was saved from destruction by hams who
would
not let them go to the dump or incinerator. Same for the parts.

You probably gathered that I had no real intention of doing so.

Yes - but I think Len would love it if those old QSTs were burned...

I know an amateur (not me) who was *given* a near-complete collection of
QST by
an elderly ham who knew he would soon be SK. He had saved every issue from
the
post WW1 reawakening to the prsent day. He had many duplicates, too. It
took 3
trips in a Citation to move them all.

Jack Fulmer, then W4HAV (now W4YF) was Vice President of Cincinnati
Milacron lived near me in Fort Thomas, Kentucky early in '68. He had a
complete run of QST but his late Uncle was also a ham and left Jack his
magazine. Jack gave me the complete run of 1934-1958. That formed the
core of my QST collection.

Cool!

Mine started out in 1968 with my subscription. Got some 50s and 60s copies when
a local radio club got rid of their small library. Then various hamfests and
such. The ham who got the collection detailed above had some duplicates and
gave them to me. A few copies even came from eBay. Recently, a local ham gave
me his old library, which was in better shape than some of mine. Etc.

Along the way I accumulated a lot of dupes, which were then sold off. All part
of the collecting game.

Jack was the guy, who with Jean Shepherd

K2ORS

started the short-lived first VW dealership in the Cincinnati area a few
years after the war.

That one belongs in the "Radio Stories" thread.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"6SJ7GT"