(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?

Yessir, It's 2004 and it's **still** out there. Guy was up late last
year for the vote on approving his membership application into The
Group (the 43rd & Kingsessing "Group" we're both familair with yes?)

You mean the one where the attendance sheet looks like the DXCC Honor
Roll?

and somebody asked "what license class does he have?" His sponser:
"Uhhh . . Advanced." Then he ducked. Immediate 180dBA noise level from
the Back Benchers, "what the hell is this guy's problem?"

Well, what IS his problem?

That group is heavily focused on DX and contesting - particularly DX
contesting.
They're "a bit competitive"....

Anything less than an Extra is a big competitive disadvantage in DX
contesting.
Like not being able to work split. So why doesn't the guy get one? Even if
he
only works 'phone, all he need do is pass element 4. And he's had almost 4
years.

No, wait, that's not a good reason. Those writtens are really tough. More
than
4 years ago, (Jan 19, 2000, to be exact) a certain verbose nonham here
said
he
was going for Extra "right out of the box". But no ham license of any
class
yet.
And this nonham says he's a "radio PROFESSIONAL"....

Maybe he should apply to The Group. I'd like to attend that meeting....

Then as now, they were few - but noisy.

Maybe it was different where you were, Dan.

It's all just cycles Dan and the 1968 maneuver was not the first cycle
by any means and welcome to the current cycle. There will be others.

Circle Game.

Dit-dit!

Still nothing from one of "us"

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in
RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or
myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over
not
being an Extra class licensee.

Where's the quotes, Brain?

You are blind.

And in ANY case, you STILL don't make a case for your "several Extras on
RRAP" assertion.

So..............You're STILL shy of some facts here, Brain.

Try again.

Steve, K4YZ

The evidence is damning, unless you fold your PCTA blinders directly
over your eyeballs.

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/20/2004 6:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
om...
(William) wrote in message
. com...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
ink.net...



Riley is not a Extra class.

Dan/W4NTI



Quote from several Extra's on RRAP, "So what's his problem?"


Which of "several Extra's", Brain?

There's only a few of us, so it can't be TOO hard to pony up a quote.

Re-quotes from posts, please? FACTS...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ


---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N2EY )
Subject: Excellent ARRL proposal


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2004-01-25 12:31:04 PST


In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
go thru to get on the air. There were neighborhood radio clubs which
didn't allow full voting memberships to Novices and Techs . . .


And in the mid-60s there were still some who did similar things. Indeed,
there
were Advanceds who looked down on Generals, Generals who looked down on
Conditionals, Conditionals who looked down on Techs, and Techs who looked
down
on Novices. Etc.

And it wasn't just kids vs. adults, either.

Yessir, It's 2004 and it's **still** out there. Guy was up late last
year for the vote on approving his membership application into The
Group (the 43rd & Kingsessing "Group" we're both familair with yes?)

You mean the one where the attendance sheet looks like the DXCC Honor Roll?

and somebody asked "what license class does he have?" His sponser:
"Uhhh . . Advanced." Then he ducked. Immediate 180dBA noise level from
the Back Benchers, "what the hell is this guy's problem?"

Well, what IS his problem?

That group is heavily focused on DX and contesting - particularly DX
contesting.
They're "a bit competitive"....

Anything less than an Extra is a big competitive disadvantage in DX
contesting.
Like not being able to work split. So why doesn't the guy get one? Even if he
only works 'phone, all he need do is pass element 4. And he's had almost 4
years.

No, wait, that's not a good reason. Those writtens are really tough. More
than
4 years ago, (Jan 19, 2000, to be exact) a certain verbose nonham here said
he
was going for Extra "right out of the box". But no ham license of any class
yet.
And this nonham says he's a "radio PROFESSIONAL"....

Maybe he should apply to The Group. I'd like to attend that meeting....

Then as now, they were few - but noisy.

Maybe it was different where you were, Dan.

It's all just cycles Dan and the 1968 maneuver was not the first cycle
by any means and welcome to the current cycle. There will be others.

Circle Game.

Dit-dit!

Still nothing from one of "us"

You still don't know how to read attributions, do you?

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

That's right.

That's completely wrong.

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.

That depends on the definition of "stupid".

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over not
being an Extra class licensee.

Let's clear this up.

Yes, Jim, lets. Just raise your hand and admit -to Steve- that you
made the comment that I am accusing you of making.

Ditto Kelly admitting that he initially posted the offending remark.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

Indeed.

The "what's his problem" reaction above happened a relatively short
time ago, not the 1960s, so the code test wasn't the issue at all.

That was Steve's assumption -and- mistake.

Is that an "elitist" situation? Maybe - but that club is an elite
group. Their accomplishments in their chosen field tell the tale.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim, -you- chimed in with "Well, what IS his problem?" indicating that
you agree with the scorn given a mere Advanced class operator who
wished to contest with like-minded people.

Best of luck.

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
"KØHB" wrote in message ink.net...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote

fm:
to:

Dear Rich,

Some time ago a story appeared in CQ that told a story about a
young,
recently licensed operator who made the mistake of using "CB" lingo on
the
repeater.

The story went on to tell about a "crusty" old op that
subsequently read
him the riot act on the air, causing the young op to rethink his
Amateur
"career".

Can you help me locate this article?

Thanks!

Steve Robeson, LPN
Amateur Call K4YZ
Winchester, TN

fm: K0HB
to: W2VU

Hi Rich,

Just so you know what's going on......(SNIP)

Received the following from Rich, W2VU:

QUOTE:

Dear Steve,

I did a search of our online database, which extends back to 1990, and
found nothing. I also checked and found nothing in CQ VHF. On the
other hand, this is unfortunately such a common experience that it
wouldn't surprise me if some variation on the theme has been published
somewhere before.

I see that you've copied K0HB on your request for information. Hans
and I have been e-mail correspondents over many years now, sometimes
agreeing on things and sometimes disagreeing. But I seem to recall
that some years back, HE wrote something along these lines - posted it
somewhere on the internet as I recall. Internet postings tend to take
on lives of their own, often traveling far beyond their original
intended audiences. Perhaps parts of his story were quoted by a
columnist for some ham magazine? Or maybe it was reprinted (with or
without his permission) in a club newsletter? You might ask Hans if
his story - if I'm remembering things correctly - was ever published
anywhere.

vy 73,
Rich W2VU
Editor, CQ

UNQUOTE

In as far as remembering that the article was from "CQ", I am
apparently wrong. My own personal "library" of "CQ" only goes back to
January 2001.

In as far as stating it was CQ, I was wrong and apologize to Hans
for that.

I have, however, sent a letter to the ARRL to inquire of them if
the story was thiers. If that too comes up empty (and assuming Hans
doesn't feel compelled to send THEM a "heads up", too...) I will
complete the apology. There WAS an story. If I remeber it from here,
then I was wrong as to it's origin and author.

Steve, K4YZ

The ARRL, huh? Great use of some staffers time. Good thing I didn't
short them on my dues money.

Leave no stone unturned.

Check out 73, World Radio, and Nuts&Volts, too.

Maybe Len can look back in that defunct magazine, Ham Radio. Or ask
Yoshi if it was published in JARL.

After all, you couldn't be wrong.

Manic efforts to prove Hans wrong. Hi, hi!

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: WHICH Plagiarism, Steve?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 10/21/2004 10:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


P L E A S E show me the "constructiveness" or "fairness" of Hans'
actions.

Inquiring minds, etc etc etc....


"Constructiveness" and "fairness"???? When attacked with unfounded and
untrue suggestions of wrongdoing (in this case, plagiarism) you will
never find me "fair" or "constructive". It was my intention to bare
your lie to public view, which I seem to have done.

I note in a message which the Editor of CQ sent to you and copied me, he
says:

"Dear Steve,

I did a search of our online database, which
extends back to 1990, and found nothing.
I also checked and found nothing in CQ VHF."


But keep looking, Steve, because my offer still stands. Cite the CQ
issue which contained this story, not written by me, and I'll send a
public apology "Letter to the Editor" of CQ.

Your move.

Put up or shut up.

Uh huh.

I see you've completely ignored the fact that I published that letter
already and APOLOGIZED for having for having got that attribute wrong.

And you misquoted Rich's letter.

Typical.

You truly ARE a scumbag, Hans.

I thought it was just a "summer thing".

Steve, K4YZ

Hmmm? Doesn't look like an apology even though he admitted to getting
it wrong. Just what does it take for Steve to act like a human being?

N2EY wrote:

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:


I wrote a very benign letter to Rich, W2VU at CQ
magazine to try and locate the article that I remembered reading.



Here's why it looks familiar:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...ews.com&output
=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

I don't read CQ with any regularity so I don't know if it's in there or not.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"My name is Jim and despite being lectured to by numerous 'radio cops' and
'newsgroup cops', I'm still a radio amateur and still online"

It is a good point you make, Jim. First time I ever used an autopatch,
a local Ham came on afterward, and let me know about some mistakes I was
making. I thanked him, and we went on our merry ways. Even now, last
weekend, when I was operating in a contest, another Ham came on and
asked if I could move "upwind a bit". I asked him if he had a pref of
how far, he told me, and I moved. We both went on our merry ways.

Later in the same contest on 20 meters, a Ham (presumably, since he
didn't ID) broke in on a QSO to chastize me for using speech compression
- which I do if I need to. I asked him if he wanted to make a QSO with
me, and he said "Hell NO, you stupid asshole!" I thanked him and noted
that it was good to see there were still gentlemen on the air, and we
both went our merry ways.

Point is that its a big world with all types, and if you are going to
allow one early experience to convince you to call it quits, then you
must have had some interest issues going on.

Lessee, a person studies the writtens, takes the time to learn Morse
code to 13wpm, takes the time and trouble and expense to take the tests.
Then in his first QSO is chastized for using "my first personal is"
instead of "My name is", so they quit?

I can only assume Hans is telling the truth, as he seems a pretty
straight shooter to me. I draw a different conclusion tho'. Mr Newbie
Ham was waaaayyy too sensitive, either from embarrassment or ego.

We cannot control how others talk. The simple attempt to control teh
behavior often reinforces the behavior.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote


I can only assume Hans is telling the truth, as he seems a pretty
straight shooter to me. I draw a different conclusion tho'. Mr Newbie
Ham was waaaayyy too sensitive, either from embarrassment or ego.


It was a story, Mike, a fictional tale, or a fable if you wish,
obviously exaggerated, and only intended to illustrate a point.

Sheeeeesshhhhhhhhh! This is certainly a damned tough audience!

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote


I can only assume Hans is telling the truth, as he seems a pretty
straight shooter to me. I draw a different conclusion tho'. Mr Newbie
Ham was waaaayyy too sensitive, either from embarrassment or ego.



It was a story, Mike, a fictional tale, or a fable if you wish,
obviously exaggerated, and only intended to illustrate a point.

Sheeeeesshhhhhhhhh! This is certainly a damned tough audience!


Okay, so what you're trying to say is "Be excellent to one another, eh?

Although in the original thread that wa dug up in teh wayback machine,
I thought you noted that you were interviewing the guy for a job?

But at any rate, it is a good little sstory and good advice to
nexperienced Hams.

- Mike KB3EIA -

-I still think the biggest problem in the US is that people drink too
darn much coffee.

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (N2EY)
Date: 10/21/2004 12:07 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in
RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

That's right.

The claim was that "several Extras here on rrap" said it. That's simply false.

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.

That depends on the definition of "stupid".

That's why I said "may", Jim. Nothing in what Brain cited was
inappropriate.

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or
myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over
not
being an Extra class licensee.

Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

Which would answer why the possession of an Extra MIGHT make the
difference.

What the back benchers were saying was: "How come this guy doesn't realize that
any serious DXer/contester who wants to join our club would get an Extra
first?"

How could anyone disagree with that?

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

Then that IS the difference.

Exactly. Having that license *does* make a difference in how well someone can
do what the club is focused on. "What's his problem", in that context, meant
"doesn't this guy understand how basic that is?"

Take contesting, for example. There are folks who think they are doing well if
they make 15 QSOs/hr in a major contest, and can keep that rate up for 12
hours. And for their setups and skills, they *are* doing well! Yet among other
folks, 30 QSOs/hr for 24 hours (twice the rate, twice as long, four times the
score or more) isn't considered "doing well" at all. All depends on your
concept of what "doing well in the contest" is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

The "what's his problem" reaction above happened a relatively short
time ago, not the 1960s, so the code test wasn't the issue at all.

Is that an "elitist" situation? Maybe - but that club is an elite
group. Their accomplishments in their chosen field tell the tale.

btw, Steve, no disrespect intended, but among those folks, 115 countries isn't
a big deal. Twice that many isn't! It's just a matter of what they focus on.

To paraphrase what was written earlier: Nobody, regardless of license class,
has all the answers or knows all of it.

That doesn't mean everyone's knowledge is the same, or that everyone's opinion
is equally valid/of equal value.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in
om:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/20/2004 6:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
om...
(William) wrote in message
. com...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in
message
ink.net...
Riley is not a Extra class.

Dan/W4NTI

Quote from several Extra's on RRAP, "So what's his problem?"

Which of "several Extra's", Brain?

There's only a few of us, so it can't be TOO hard to pony up a
quote.

Re-quotes from posts, please? FACTS...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N2EY )
Subject: Excellent ARRL proposal


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2004-01-25 12:31:04 PST


In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:
go thru to get on the air. There were neighborhood radio clubs
which didn't allow full voting memberships to Novices and Techs .
. .


And in the mid-60s there were still some who did similar things.
Indeed, there were Advanceds who looked down on Generals, Generals
who looked down on Conditionals, Conditionals who looked down on
Techs, and Techs who looked down on Novices. Etc.

And it wasn't just kids vs. adults, either.

Yessir, It's 2004 and it's **still** out there. Guy was up late last
year for the vote on approving his membership application into The
Group (the 43rd & Kingsessing "Group" we're both familair with yes?)

You mean the one where the attendance sheet looks like the DXCC Honor
Roll?

and somebody asked "what license class does he have?" His sponser:
"Uhhh . . Advanced." Then he ducked. Immediate 180dBA noise level
from the Back Benchers, "what the hell is this guy's problem?"

Well, what IS his problem?

That group is heavily focused on DX and contesting - particularly DX
contesting. They're "a bit competitive"....

Anything less than an Extra is a big competitive disadvantage in DX
contesting. Like not being able to work split. So why doesn't the guy
get one? Even if he only works 'phone, all he need do is pass element
4. And he's had almost 4 years.

No, wait, that's not a good reason. Those writtens are really tough.
More than 4 years ago, (Jan 19, 2000, to be exact) a certain verbose
nonham here said he was going for Extra "right out of the box". But
no ham license of any class yet. And this nonham says he's a "radio
PROFESSIONAL"....

Maybe he should apply to The Group. I'd like to attend that
meeting....

Then as now, they were few - but noisy.

Maybe it was different where you were, Dan.

It's all just cycles Dan and the 1968 maneuver was not the first
cycle by any means and welcome to the current cycle. There will
be others.

Circle Game.

Dit-dit!

Still nothing from one of "us"

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras"
in RRAP suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a
problem".

That's right.

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein
some other group of people may have acted stupidly.

That depends on the definition of "stupid".

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or
myself, among others, as having said anything close to "what's
his problem" over not being an Extra class licensee.

Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

The "what's his problem" reaction above happened a relatively short
time ago, not the 1960s, so the code test wasn't the issue at all.

Is that an "elitist" situation? Maybe - but that club is an elite
group. Their accomplishments in their chosen field tell the tale.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I don't know Jim. I know I guy who is on the DXCC Honor Roll and is only a
General. I'm an Extra and I don't even have my basic DXCC. I could see the
same might apply to contesting too.

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/22/2004 5:54 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

btw, Steve, no disrespect intended, but among those folks, 115 countries
isn't
a big deal. Twice that many isn't! It's just a matter of what they focus on.

No offense taken.

I know that a lot of the "big ones" are in the bottom 25kHz, but at the
same time, a lot of them transmit in the bottom 25 and listen up. That's where
I caught a lot of them.

Although I know you can use "past" callsigns collectively to get your
DXCC, I reworked almost all of them again under K4YZ to get my DXCC. A few
were left overs from when I held my 2X1, but most were done over...just to do
it.


73

Steve, K4YZ